Sometimes, we fail :(

As I'm always keen to report our successes here, I think it's only right (but maybe slightly commercially naive) to report our failures here too. As some of you will know, we've been developing our own smart strainer system to partner our new In-Tense snare range. Well, we've had to call it a day on that development. It's a shame, because the benefits of such a system still stand, but multiple difficulties, most of which were beyond our control, have created a situation that we just can't overcome, at least not in the short term.

This snare development has already consumed a lot of time & resources. We're very happy with the results, it's just that the strainer would have been the icing on the cake, & that's where the disappointment lies. It doesn't, however, take anything away from the instrument range itself. We're proud that we've produced an instrument that (IOHO) raises the bar in high end snares.

We'll decide which strainer to fit to the In-Tense range over the next week, then report back to this thread. We've been using the Trick GS007 with good results on our last series, so it's a strong option going forward.

Some head scratching to do.

Andy.

Sorry to hear about that Andy. But maybe you don't need to consider it a failure as much as a happy accident?

Personally, I think you're correct in calling it 'icing on the cake' because indeed, the strainer does not make the drum sound like it does, it's the tool that holds the wires to the head, and there are alot of strainers already on the market, so staying with the Trick one I don't think is a bad idea. I'd still be much more interested in the Guru sound over what kind of strainer it had.

Face it, the best strainer I use to date is a 30 year old Ludwig P-85 that doesn't stay in place - so anything for me would be an massive improvement

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Thats just the thundering footsteps of an ant climbing a wall. Andy, you're a champ all way.

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Andy, the bigger fail would have been not trying at all. Good luck as always!!!

Bo Eder said:

I'd still be much more interested in the Guru sound over what kind of strainer it had.

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You're right Bo, & of course, we shouldn't loose sight of that (as if we would). Still a personal kicker though

aydee said:

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Thats just the thundering footsteps of an ant climbing a wall. Andy, you're a champ all way.

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Thank you for the support Abe. I am often harsh on myself, but nowhere near as harsh as some other drum companies are towards us. I hate handing a stick to others for them to beat us with, but it's the personal failure that bothers me much more.

The Old Hyde said:

Andy, the bigger fail would have been not trying at all. Good luck as always!!!

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Thanks man, & of course you're right

Bo Eder said:

Personally, I think you're correct in calling it 'icing on the cake' because indeed, the strainer does not make the drum sound like it does, it's the tool that holds the wires to the head, and there are alot of strainers already on the market, so staying with the Trick one I don't think is a bad idea. I'd still be much more interested in the Guru sound over what kind of strainer it had.

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Agree w/ Bo. I am not disappointed. Strainers aren't mission critical IMO. I mean I love the fact that you want to innovate. But I won't be losing any sleep over having a Trick.

aydee said:

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Thats just the thundering footsteps of an ant climbing a wall. Andy, you're a champ all way.

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Thundering footsteps of an ant. That's friggin brilliant. You haven't been posting much but when you do, you really make it count Abe.

You haven't failed, you've discovered one of a million ways NOT to design/manufacture a strainer.

I find that when I hit walls like that, if I leave it aside for a bit and simply let it roll around in my mind every so often, sometimes I eventually have a Eureka! moment and find a way over the hump.

Sometimes,the only way we learn is when we fail.You really haven't failed Andy,you've just found 100 ways to do it wrong.

Just let it be for a while,and then take a look at it with fresh eyes.

Sucess always starts with failure.If theres a way,you'll find it.

Steve B

Oh Andy didn't fail at the design. It was a money thing that is blocking the way forward. Big difference. Andy's ideas are beyond reproach.

It's not a fail. it's an opportunity to use the time in other areas of drum construction, where you can improve on designs and technologies.


But I must admit, based on how clever your lug design is, I was interested to see what you Gurus had been working on. Maybe down the road the planets will align again.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time and money. The design is already completed AFAIK. After Guru becomes wildly successful, I'm sure the strainer will be available. I mean everything else is from the ground up. I could see where this would be an annoying thorn in Andy's side. Everything is a fresh idea and he has to bolt on someone else's strainer. I wouldn't even call it a fail, more like a long delay.

larryace said:

Oh Andy didn't fail at the design. It was a money thing that is blocking the way forward. Big difference. Andy's ideas are beyond reproach.

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I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the technical aspects of the design were faulty. I'm sure they're fine. I was taking a more broad definition of "design" to mean the entire process of bringing a product to market, including it being possible to produce at a certain cost, etc.

Part of science, research and development is that failure is always an option.

This just means you'll know what won't work next time.

Andy, this may be a blessing. Drummers looking for high end snares are used to seeing Trick or Trick type throw offs being used................................I think it's almost expected. It is a great throw, and besides the bulkiness, I can't see a downside.

One thing you may want to think about, when you do get your strainer up and operational, you may want the mounting holes to line up with the Trick to make a retrofit easy. Just a thought.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the lift

Larry's right to a degree, it is primarily a money thing, but it's also a tooling issue, that becomes a money thing. Like most of the stuff we do, it's not been done before, & that very much includes the production of our shell hardware. It's all produced from solid, & that's because solid has big sonic consistency advantages over anything cast - even investment/lost wax casting. Any machinist will scratch their head when they look at our lugs. "How the hell did you machine that", "how did you hold the damn thing" are two comments that came to me recently from a guy who owns a very high end defence contractor CNC shop. The reason for this background is to display just how critical tooling is to what we do. It's our biggest single investment expenditure, & that includes the tooling for both our origin, & more recently, our In-Tense shells. Advanced tooling in every size from 8" to 26" is a big cost.

Anyhow, the design stays on the drawing board (or the CAD system rather). It may appear in the future, but if it does, it will be in a modified form. Right now, we have our new snare range hung up on the strainer, so a painful commercial decision had to be taken. The snare range is business critical for us, so it needs to launch, & it needs to launch soon.

One last point, we're extremely lucky to have a very talented & capable machining company we partner with for all of our hardware. Without them, this journey would be much more difficult than it already is. There's no way we could do this in Asia. OK, there's a cost associated with that decision, but we believe that cost is a very worthwhile investment in itself, both for us, & our customers.

thats an amazing record....no other major design snafus!

You guys have designed a major success!!

Andy, when this design comes to market I'm sure it'll be a belter, as has been everything else you have produced.

My firepit outside my shop has seen many failures.

Chin up!

My guess is that you feel the sting because you are passionate about what you do. That passion has already bestowed gifts upon the world of music, and I doubt it will be diluted by this mere speed bump.

Thanks to you for your thoughtful DW contributions as well.

Cheers,

Johnny

Very brave and humble of you to free the cat...

The amazing drums that you've created speak for themselves!