The death of Rock n Roll?

Anything to get it out of the hands of popular media.

...let country get mangled by the money makers for a while...
 
I agree it's very much alive, really depending on what you think about when you hear the name rock and roll. When I hear it I think of bands with real instruments like drums and distorted guitar; including metal, punk rock, screamo, pop rock, avant garde etc. You think of it and it's out there, rock doesn't seem very prominent today because there's so much pop/electronic music taking the spot light, but it's definitely still going strong, maybe just more "underground" than it used to be.
 
The question is, what is Rock n Roll? Is metal rock music, or is it a completely separate genre? Are Radiohead a rock band? What about bands like Mumford and Sons?

I think as long as there are kids playing electric guitars there will always be rock music. It will morph and change, but at the heart it will still be rock music.
 
M.A.D.- The Baseballs are very good at performing music of that era and style (approx.1958?)
I think what I was getting at originally was current day styles being played in the spirit of RocknRoll if that makes any sense. To me, people like Miley Cyrus and the Gaga Lady are not where rocknroll ought to be.
But then I listen to bands like Foo Fighters and I sense that the spirit is still floating around. I'm probably just showing my age here...
 
I think there are long cycles of "rock". It gets overindulged with itself (70s), then the Sex Pistols come along and flatten it.
It builds back up again and gets fat and bloated (80s) ... then grunge comes along.

Perhaps we are due again now? hhhmmm ... maybe overdue.

I think you're on to something there. So what could be next? What could possibly come in to puncture the bloat we have today ... the tortured melisma, competitive compression, autotune and Protools, formulaic writing, the infernal machines, exposed navels ...
 
I think you're on to something there. So what could be next? What could possibly come in to puncture the bloat we have today ... the tortured melisma, competitive compression, autotune and Protools, formulaic writing, the infernal machines, exposed navels ...

ugh, when you list all the warts like that, it really sounds helpless doesn't it?

Fear not - have faith in the proles! Whatever comes in will be stripped down, some attitude (not necessarily volume), and be played with conviction (I hope). Alas, it will only last a couple of years before the sales weasels gut it.

BTW, That was an interesting comment about the disappearance of the shuffle ... I hadn't thought of that. I guess with the reduction of pop to quarter notes on a (synthesized) bass drum, the shuffle had no place? Dunno ...?

radman
 
Fear not - have faith in the proles! Whatever comes in will be stripped down, some attitude (not necessarily volume), and be played with conviction (I hope). Alas, it will only last a couple of years before the sales weasels gut it.

I wonder if the proles will figure it's more natural to their usual modus operandi to create all their music with software? So true about the sales weasels (I loled at the term)

That was an interesting comment about the disappearance of the shuffle ... I hadn't thought of that. I guess with the reduction of pop to quarter notes on a (synthesized) bass drum, the shuffle had no place? Dunno ...?

Or maybe the sequencer presets were all straight 8s and people didn't even think to press the shuffle button while noodling around? Or maybe that's putting the cart before the horse? I expect the default factory preset would be a swung rhythm if sequencers were invented in the 1940s ...
 
Abe, what spirit remains? I don't see a cohesive spirit of rock n' roll. It's just youth culture an the fact that every generation gripes about their descendants' music. And values. And they are all probably making a good point.

But tech has always been a huge driver. One day The Machine will shape arts, politics, laws, foods ... everything to suit their needs over ours. The more entwined humans become with tech the more we will reflect it.


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If hip-hop is the new jazz, is metal the new rock? I don't know..

I was trying to be charitable, Grea, ; )
I assumed there are at least some renegades out there, trapped in a time warp, still waving their freak flags outside all the EDM clubs.This is the age of the DJ, thats for sure.

On the generational gripe, wasn't ours a generation of apologists? The ones that 'befriended' our offspring for the first time in human history, lol. ( rebels and no cause is a wimpy combo, though... )

And then tree is the new democracy of self expression now, with all the tech, be it iPhone photos and videos, Garage Band, home studios, social media marketing, crowd funding etc, which has completely changed the parameters of art and our perception of it.

Dunno if thats good or bad. I read an article recently that said the our ears have now become so accustomed to lo rez mp3s that sound with more bit rate and bandwidth is 'uncomfortable'. ( yes, I can't play my St Pepper LP without my 19 yr old going, nice tunes, but the sound is weird )

Yes, you are right, the original spirit of rock in roll was a raw looseness and beautiful imperfection which runs counter to the very idea of a machine.


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I read an article recently that said the our ears have now become so accustomed to lo rez mp3s that sound with more bit rate and bandwidth is 'uncomfortable'.
Now that is interesting Abe, but also concerning. I care not for the tech reasons, but reduced bit rate = less dynamic, via compression as a necessity. As if more distance was needed, this takes recorded music further away from live music audio presentation, & in turn, reduces the value, & indeed the wonder, of a full dynamic sonic landscape.

It may seem like I'm being a bit techy deep over this, but I believe it to be a creeping conditioning that's counter productive on so many levels.

On a personal day to day level, I won't listen to mp3 unless I'm forced to via lack of choice. To me, it's the audio cassette of the modern age, & f(*^ing sounds like it too :(

Rather the same as drum sounds, or at least, how they're often presented. I hate how everyone from drum companies to studios must press the "impressive" button. Although different, that really hasn't moved on much from the 80's.
 
Now that is interesting Abe, but also concerning. I care not for the tech reasons, but reduced bit rate = less dynamic, via compression as a necessity. As if more distance was needed, this takes recorded music further away from live music audio presentation, & in turn, reduces the value, & indeed the wonder, of a full dynamic sonic landscape.

It may seem like I'm being a bit techy deep over this, but I believe it to be a creeping conditioning that's counter productive on so many levels.

On a personal day to day level, I won't listen to mp3 unless I'm forced to via lack of choice. To me, it's the audio cassette of the modern age, & f(*^ing sounds like it too :(


Lol, what you have touched upon may be a broader question, Andy.

Live, organic music, as we understand it, is in the minuscule minority already. I don't know how many kids these days really go to gigs which don't have incredibly processed sound, triggers, Ableton, sequencers etc. I know your studio and recording chops are solid, Andy, and you would scientifically understand what digital compression does to music, but if you didn't know better, or didn't grow up in the LP age, would you even care.

Its probably just an evolution path that is difficult for our generation to process ( no pun intended ). Maybe the huge loss of dynamic range and separation of sound is compensated by innovation in other aspects.

Maybe David Guetta, Skrillex and others are doing something I don't get. Maybe I'm not 18, aye ; )


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Or maybe the sequencer presets were all straight 8s and people didn't even think to press the shuffle button while noodling around? Or maybe that's putting the cart before the horse? I expect the default factory preset would be a swung rhythm if sequencers were invented in the 1940s ...

I'm not sure about that really, there were probably more shuffle-type rhythms in the 80s when the drum machine first properly appeared on the scene. Rocket by Def Leppard is one example of that in a rock track (I think that was a Linn LM-1 on that album). Then when you consider how big hip-hop and RnB were in the early 90s, and related genres like New Jack Swing, and that they used swing patterns most of the time, it's obviously not to do with sequencers. Rhythms have been straightened out across many genres of popular music over the last 20 years or so. Even older dance music with a four-on-the-floor bass drum pattern used to have swung hi-hats quite often.


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Dunno if thats good or bad. I read an article recently that said the our ears have now become so accustomed to lo rez mp3s that sound with more bit rate and bandwidth is 'uncomfortable'. ( yes, I can't play my St Pepper LP without my 19 yr old going, nice tunes, but the sound is weird )

Yes, you are right, the original spirit of rock in roll was a raw looseness and beautiful imperfection which runs counter to the very idea of a machine.


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Was there a study published? That sounds sort of spurious to me.

I actually think rock music has always been driven by technology. The spirit of machines is right in there with the spirit of humans. Those sleek, futuristic stratocasters and glowing valves...the music of the future! Well, it was in 1959 anyway. Maybe the spirit of rock is easier to find in something else now.
 
I think what I was getting at originally was current day styles being played in the spirit of RocknRoll if that makes any sense. To me, people like Miley Cyrus and the Gaga Lady are not where rocknroll ought to be.
But then I listen to bands like Foo Fighters and I sense that the spirit is still floating around. I'm probably just showing my age here...

Dunno, Grohl seems as much a pop-oriented songwriter as Gaga. Isn't that the whole thing with that guy? That's he's this one-man clearinghouse for music nostalgia, much of which is pop? If one minute he's reuniting Voivod, the next the Beatles. Lay you ten to one he drums for Miley before she's done.

Most of us don't know one-tenth of all the music that's out there, but It's always going to be true that the music you dislike the most is the music you know the least about. There's an old story about a famous writer who ranted for hours at a party about a film he hated. Somebody thought to ask if the writer had even seen the film. 'Of course I haven't seen the film,' the writer retorted. 'Do you think I would waste my time seeing a film as bad as I have described?'
 
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