DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-14-2013, 06:55 PM
John Cambell John Cambell is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 22
Default Polyrhythm help

Hi there. Im just getting introduced to polyrhythms. Have been drumming for a long time.

So far, I can't wrap my head around them, I kinda understand that 2 different measures are being layered on top of each other.

I can watch youtube, and copy the rhythm, but I want to understand it, on a deeper lever.

Any great help, or videos on youtube, that I could watch? I suppose like any drumming, I should start slow.

I almost reminds me when I first started drumming, when you would watch you bass foot and your high hat hand to get a rhythm going haha.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-14-2013, 07:10 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 69
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

this guys page has a nice break down , and many examples of polyrhythms

the visuals make it very easy to separate your limbs

3 over 4 is a nice place to start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8upXAChK-g

Last edited by WhoIsTony?; 09-14-2013 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:46 PM
JohnW JohnW is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rockport, MA USA
Posts: 861
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

That video is nice. Another way to look at 4 against 3 (or 3 against 4) is by saying a phrase, like "Pass the bread and butter". So "Pass" would be the Right and Left hands together, "the" would be the R hand, "bread" would be the L hand, "and" would be the R hand, "but-" would be the L hand and "-ter" would be the R hand again. Then you play both hands together again on "Pass" and keep looping it. Or you could reverse hands. It does sound a little different from that animated video, but I think that has to do with our perception based on the slow tempo, and the flat volume of the electronic sounds used. Basically:

The 4 portion is:

Pass the bread and butter.

The 3 portion is:

Pass the bread and butter.

The idea is to hear the combined rhythm cycles as a natural spoken phrase, then transfer the words to your hands. At the beginning of the combined cycles (the shared "1") strike both hands in unison and then alternate for the rest of the pattern.

A few basic cross rhythm phrases:

3 against 2: "I want some-bread" or (from the Christmas song Carol of the Bells) "ring ding a-ling, "

4 against 3: "Pass the bread and butter"

5 against 4: "No butter. Use some oil instead"

There are a number of different ways to do it, but this way works for me.
__________________
-John W

National Association of Rudimental Drummers
(N.A.R.D.) Member, No. 10078
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-14-2013, 11:59 PM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 6,301
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

I'm sure you've heard the Christmas carol "Carol of the Bells": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htef8Am-XxU

The female vocals are emphasizing a three (or six) feel: DA DAda DA, DA DAda DA.

When the male vocals come in, they are in two (or four, depending how you count):

DING DONG DING DONG, DING DONG DING DONG.

When I do four over three or three over four, I just assign a female voice to one hand and a male voice to the other, and do "Carol of the Bells".

Easy peasy.

Dinnit know a Christmas carol had polyrhythms, didya?
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2013, 01:27 AM
leanneislearningtodrum's Avatar
leanneislearningtodrum leanneislearningtodrum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 78
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

I've just started on these too (actually just wrote a little about it the other day, http://wp.me/p3OSqd-6E). Have been watching this video http://youtu.be/wQWQUc8CCa0 to try and make sense of it, but i now like the one WhoIsTony posted better because it uses two different sounds.

When I asked my drum teacher about polyrhythms he said that it's easiest to learn the overall feel of it first, with the sayings to remember it like others have mentioned. He said eventually by playing it over and over it'll sink in and you can break it down better in your head.

And now I'm going to listen to carol of the bells.
__________________
www.leanneislearningtodrum.com (a blog about drumming, from a beginner's point of view)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2013, 01:36 AM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
this guys page has a nice break down , and many examples of polyrhythms

the visuals make it very easy to separate your limbs

3 over 4 is a nice place to start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8upXAChK-g
I think that would be a nice little exercise to play on the drums, around the whole kit. Right hand playing the four and left playing the three, or you could play the three on the bass drum and do something else with the left hand.

Anyway I'm about to try it.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2013, 03:43 AM
Brian Brian is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 1,392
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

basic polyrhythm 2:00 mark or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QrxyrRsUY8

I am not a metal guy or anything, but I figure the kids can relate to this :) :)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:40 PM
DustinB DustinB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 76
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

I am not very confident with polyrhythms, but this is my understanding...

For example a 3:2 pattern you would:
find the lowest common denominator (2 and 3 both go into 6)
easiest way I have been shown is to create boxes and fill them in...
to find where the 3 notes go, you start on 1 and go up 2 boxes:
Rh [x] [ ] [x] [ ] [x] [ ]

to find the 2 you start on 1 and go up 3 boxes:
Lh [x] [ ] [ ] [x] [ ] [ ]


Right hand plays 3, left hand plays 2 (or visa versa)
[1] [+] [2] [+] [3] [+]
[x] [ ] [x] [ ] [x] [ ]
[x] [ ] [ ] [x] [ ] [ ]

so a 3:2 polyrhythm 6 beats to repeat itself

applied to 5:2
5 and 2 both go into 10
[1] [+] [2] [+] [3] [+] [4] [+] [5] [+]
[x] [ ] [x] [ ] [x] [ ] [x] [ ] [x] [ ]
[x] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [x] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

5:2 takes 10 beats to repeat itself

obviously you can count as 1 2 3 4 5 6, or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10, it just looked cleaner using the +'s instead...

I hope this helps clear things up, and if i am wrong I hope someone is able to correct me... Good luck! This stuff can make your head hurt that's for sure haha.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:50 AM
John Lamb's Avatar
John Lamb John Lamb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 482
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

Polyrhyhms are fantastic, and are MUCH simpler than they are usually made out to be. I think you can really just remove the 'poly' from the title because anything less is just a metronome.

Anyway, to begin with, polyrhythms are simply two or more pulses sounding at the same time. If you took two metronomes started them playing together, that would qualify.

The pulse itself is the single most meaningful aspect of music. I recently published a book about why that is so called "A Matter of Time: The science of rhythm and the groove" if you want to check it out.

https://bitly.com/11rAlyi+

Back to the polyrhythms... so more than one pulse sounding at the same time. First, for those pulses to sound any kind of good together, they need to be mathematically related: that is, 2:1, 3:2, 4:3, 5:3, 5:3, etc etc. These are 'consonant' relationships, and our ears really like them.

Polyrhythms are very much the same thing as pitches/intervals, and follow the same rules. Check out this blog here for details: http://dantepfer.com/blog/?p=277

If the two pulses are not simply related, then it will sound like chaos, or noise. (dissonance)

A polyrhythm CAN be simple, such as 2:1 - where one hand plays exactly twice as fast as the other. This could be eighth notes in one hand and quarter notes in the other. They could aligned, or not. There aren't really any rules about what you must do with polyrhythms. They just kinda, well, are.

As with pitches, the more simple the relationship, the easier on the ears... but too simple can be kinda boring. 3;2, 4:3 etc

Learning polyrhythms is great not because it allows you to play complex things, but because it is like adding a transmission. Mastering polyrhytms allows you to switch gears to go faster and slower easily. Its a blast!

Also, you don't need to play the entire polyrhythm for it to be a polyrhythm. This isn't your mothers dinner table: you don't have to eat the whole thing! (can you imagine having to complete the entire circle of 5ths once you start it?) You can take just a short segment. This is very common in pop music. One that is incredibly common is the 'Tresillo' - which is really a repeated fragment of a 4:3 polyrhythm. It means triplet in spanish, but it isnt really a triplet.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:22 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,068
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

Here's a page of stuff that might be helpful. The only ones I use in actual playing are 3:2 and 4:3, but I use them a lot.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-02-2013, 04:48 AM
John Cambell John Cambell is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 22
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

Still trying to rap my head around this. I understand them, but for some reason I need to get over this classic road block, this mental rut.

Does anybody have a counting tip? Or should I be counting? I try counting, the first rhythm is obviously easy, but as soon as I try and add the layer, I get all bunged up. Should I only count 1? and feel the other?

I can hear somebody play it, and play the polyrhythm that way no problem,.... but what I want out of it, is for my mind to shift and hear both rhythms, and not be distracted if I listen to one or the other, and that it falls apart, if this makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-02-2013, 01:46 PM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default Re: Polyrhythm help

I do a lot of 3 over 4 and 5 over 4 ( 1st one being easier ). Working on the Rosanna shuffle but putting it on a straight 4 beat. Syncopated kick is the easy part and 8th notes only on the kick gets tricky.
I practice with a yes song "owner of a lonely heart " which subtle 1 tri PLET 2 tri PLET , etc on the hat and doing ghost notes on the snare (tri plet) and accentuating back beat on 2 and 4.
The trick is to "hear" the shuffle and accentuate/concentrate on the "yes " kick/snare pattern . Basically play the hats/ghosts at a piano level and the "yes" part at fortissimo
Hope it makes sense.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com