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  #1  
Old 10-11-2012, 12:34 PM
ingvald ingvald is offline
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Default Critizise my Moeller

Hey guys! I just started working on moeller teqnuiqe today, but i am a little bit unsure of if im doing it right.

If you guys would take a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edfl0...ature=youtu.be and give me some words about my teqniuqe and what i should keep in mind and so on... i would be very glad!

Thanks guys! :D
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:42 PM
bigd bigd is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

get a teacher
you can't get real advice over the internet.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:42 PM
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Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Moeller, you are very naughty! Baaad Moeller! Now go to your room and think about what you've done!

Sorry, I know nothing of technique :) ... though when I've seen experienced drummers use a similar stroke they seem to have more control, which you'd expect since you just started. I'm sure someone in the know will come through with the good for you ...
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:46 PM
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Arky Arky is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Hard to judge - I'd recommend a different camera perspective. Not sideways but (as typical for drum tutorials) looking/playing 'into' the camera. So put up a camera in front of you (12 o'clock position). Good lighting would be nice, too.

As you know nobody can learn a technique in 1 day. So what you've just begun can only get so much better over time. From my experience I had many moments when I thought I could 'do' a technique and then weeks (or months) later I had those moments in renewed form and learned to readjust small things etc to make the techniques more effective.

It's good to overexaggerate the motions, has helped me a lot w/ Moeller when I started. Once you can do it you'd use mini, half or full Moeller, as you need/want. Your Moeller in the video looks like mini to half Moeller to me.

Judging from this side view, it's ok. But it's necessary to see your hands from a different (frontal) perspective.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:59 PM
ingvald ingvald is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Bigd. I DO have a teacher, but were both having vacation so...

I uploaded a new video! Right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLkU...ature=youtu.be ----I know i wont learn a new teqnuiqe in one day, but i could get the teqniuqe good from the beginning of it would really help me...

So... what am i doing right / wrong... what should i keep in mind? :)

Thanks guys :)
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:04 PM
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PDL PDL is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Use a metro so you can play on the 1/4 notes, why 3 on the right but 2 on the left?
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:10 PM
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Arky Arky is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Ok... MUCH MUCH better!! Thanks for instantly doing a new vid ;-)

First - I'm not a pro or seasoned drummer. So be careful with what I say.
But what I can advise:

- Slow it down (at least a bit), and keep stick height lower than that. What you do is useable in some contexts, but at this stage of learning I wouldn't do it this way.

- Keep your other stick ready, don't let your arm hang loose or 'in bypass'. That's just not a good habit.

- You need more sideways motion with your hand/wrist. You're focusing on hand height - and what you have now is enough for powerful strokes. To implement more sideways motion the initial motion is moving the elbow outwards, then your forearm and hand will follow (explained super clear on JoJo Mayer's DVD on hand technique). Your elbow is immobile all the time but it should first be close to your body, then move outwards and move to your body afterwards. But elbows come (more) into play when you're doing medium to full Moeller.

- It's good to see you're approaching this technique in a relaxed way!

- Also practice Moeller in different note groups: 2, 3, 4. Think of down - (tap - tap -) up motions. Finally, try combining both hands.

Think of Moeller as a smart & ergonomic motion. So try to do it with minimum energy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:59 PM
cornelius cornelius is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Ok, the cool thing is, it looks like you're playing pretty relaxed. Rebound is really important!
Here are a couple of ideas:
1. Set up the pad on a snare stand like you'd be playing it as if it was a snare on your kit. This way you can get your posture together. Practice in front of a mirror, too.

2. Use German Grip - it's the easiest one to use to get the feel for Moeller. It looks like you're sort of in an American Grip - first get the feel in German, then you can move on to American and French.

3.Practice the Full Stroke. Before getting anywhere near Moeller, get the feel for rebound with Full Strokes - and getting your grip in a good place before you get to different stick heights. Also grip-wise your fingers are flying off of the sticks (this can happen when you're trying to be loose to let the sticks rebound). See the pick below, the stick is coming back, but your wrist is stationary. Along with rebound, the Full Stroke it's also about allowing your wrists to follow the stick back.

4.Downstroke - Now moving on to Moeller keep in mind that the first stroke is a Downstroke. The stick needs to stay down for the following Tap (3 beats or more), or Upstroke (2 beats). Don't let the sticks come back too far for the following tap. It's all about stick heights...

Hope that helps...
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:56 PM
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BillBachman BillBachman is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

The main problem that I'm seeing is that you're picking up your forearm immediately after the accent. This leads to less sound and rebound coming from the subsequent taps, and the final tap is supposed to be played as a result of the forearm's rising in preparation for the next accent (I call this the "Moeller upstroke" where the tap is played incidentally as the stick "see-saws" while the arm is picked up to repeat the cycle.

In my Modern Drummer book "Stick Technique" this is the most common error that I spell out in the troubleshooting column of the Moeller whipping technique chapter.

And incidentally, the accent followed by two taps cycle of 3 notes is only one of a few million applications of this technique so try not to get stuck in that format as you develop.

Good luck! -Bill (Oh and I do lessons over skype if you're interested.)
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:11 PM
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2012, 01:53 PM
ingvald ingvald is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

I understand everything, but how can i lower my stick height when im preparing for the whip motion... :S????
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:23 PM
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2012, 06:17 PM
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BillBachman BillBachman is offline
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Default Re: Critizise my Moeller

Quote:
Originally Posted by ingvald View Post
I understand everything, but how can i lower my stick height when im preparing for the whip motion... :S????
You don't lower your stick heights at all, I'm saying keep you arm down, not the stick.

Also, don't concern yourself with stick heights at all with this Moeller "whip & flop" technique. Never stop the stick or squelch its energy with this technique, it's all about the constant flow. The volume differential between the accent and taps is achieved by differing velocities, the accent is whipped very fast and the taps bounce very slowly. (Volume is mainly determined by how fast you hit, not how hard or stick height necessarily.) So while the three strokes are near the same stick heights, the dynamic contrast is very clear.

This is not to be confused with wrist turn techniques where stick heights play a big part. (And to be extra thorough, stick heights only truly factor in once one knows the free stroke concept, otherwise with extra tension in the hand you can play soft from a high stick height and loud from a low stick height.)
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