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  #1  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:13 PM
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Default First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Ok, here it is, for me, probably the most important thread I've ever put up here. These pictures are not of the production kit, but not far off. We attempted to fast track 2 kits for early press review, unfortunately, we failed, but we will be ready for our October London Drum Show launch. However, we did manage to get this pre production kit up to scratch for review. There will be changes in production, most noticeably chrome plating of the aluminium hardware (these are polished aluminium), & equal proportions to the bass drum external rerings. This is the performance range kit in the Origin series. Classic range & custom range currently in first production.

Spec's:

All padauk 6mm thick vertical grain stave, rim vented, & with padauk rerings. Natural buffed clear wax finish.

All hardware aluminium machined from solid, made in the UK, & bespoke to Origin series. M5 threads.

Hoop options available, but this model fitted with genuine "S" hoops as standard.

22" x 16" Guru signature padauk segmented hoops.
16" x 15"
14" x 13"
12" x 8"

The eagle eyed amongst you will notice no bolting or screws through the shell, not even bass drum spur or floor tom leg brackets, they're free from the shell too. This is the core design focus of the Origin series. Special RIMS mount lugs allow the toms to be lifted straight out of the mount, & offer improved isolation from traditional tension screw mounted rims & all other suspension mount designs.

This is me & Dean laid bare. It's our best shot, & it's taken every ounce of energy out of us. Literally thousands of hours A - B testing every tiny detail of the design. The best stuff is yet to come, but as I promised to everyone here, here's your early heads up. Thank you all so much for putting up with my design & features questions, you've helped much more than you think.

Andy & Dean.
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Last edited by keep it simple; 08-11-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Radial drums have finally come of age!

These things are absolutely beautiful Andy. I've been looking forward to this thread since you showed me the early shell prototypes several months ago. I was really impressed with the concept then and these more than live up to that anticipation.

The lugs are really classy and I love the look of the rest of the hardware. It's very functional but I believe that is sometimes the best design for these items.

Really great stuff Andy. I hope the review goes well. It should do, these are fantastic drums.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Spectacular!!!! I can only imagine that they are an absolute dream to play. Congratulations and creating something extraordinary....

To think you were able to do this and still be involved with the home repair is staggering.

What have you sacrificed - sleep or eating?
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

WOW !!! WOW !!!! WOW !!!! Just plain beautiful, a real work of art. Both to look at and I'll bet to hear. John
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:41 PM
thunderstruck thunderstruck is offline
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

These drums are beautiful. Everything about these drums is perfect. The hard work and dedication that went into these are obvious and you should be proud.
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Very nice. Love it when wood grain stands out. That was a LOT of work.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Absolutely stunning kit, the details and originality of it's design is simply mind blowing, you can almost think they're free floating lugs which could be mounted anywhere around the perimeter of the shells, amazing, then there's the rubber end of the floor toms, they're open and isolate the drum from the ground, and much more... I've never seen anything like it.

What can I say Andy, it's better than what I expected to see, can't wait to hear them though :)
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:42 PM
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2012, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Wow, those look more like fine high end furniture than drums.
(and I mean that in a good way)
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Andy you've created a masterpiece. Just stunning. You must be too tired to be proud lol.
Can't wait to hear them.
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Thanks guys :) I can't pretend that this journey hasn't taken a chunk out of myself & Dean. It's bloody hard work. Dean has been an absolute star from the start. There's no way this would ever have got off the ground if either of us had attempted it on our own, but together, we've pooled our strengths & gone for it.

The fit & finish is standard to Guru, it's how we do things. Although the design looks simple, it's deceptively difficult to get right. Those thin stave shells & external rerings required some very innovative tooling to pull off. The hardware was a big challenge. Designing your own hardware that works in a standard way but looks different is easy. Designing something that remains utterly stable, is ultra lightweight, & can't rely on bolting through holes is on a different level.

Henri, those floor tom feet are Pearl's. They're good, but when we can afford the tooling for our own, they'll be fitted to production models. Different design, of course ;) BTW, floor tom legs & bass drum spurs are aluminium too.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Like I've said before....your drums are where mastery of an art meets science,meets beauty.Something that beautiful just HAS to sound good.Padauk eh?

This achievement is going to be tough to top.The Stratavarius of drums.Bravo sir,nicely done Andy,hip hip.:)

Steve B
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

I think I've nailed what I like aesthetically from these drums.

They're very minimalist in appearance. There's nothing unnecessary and there's nothing there that isn't focussed towards your end goal - supreme sound. It all leads to a very clean appearance and that really adds to the quality. There's no hiding when you make drums as clean as this and the quality is in very clear evidence. Just great.

Interesting that you went for the Aquarian heads too. I suppose you must've found a bulk supplier!
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Absolutely gorgeous, wonderful, spectacular, unique, exceptional... I'm fast running out of adjectives! Way to go you guys. Just as soon as I make my first million, I'm placing an order!
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

They look awesome! Great job!

In my experience Padauk has a very open grain. Did you fill the grain with anything? Last time I used a paste wood filler on a padauk jewerly box but I would think it might dampen the shell.

And how thick are those shells? Most stave drums I've seen/made are a good bit thicker.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamFlamMan View Post
And how thick are those shells? Most stave drums I've seen/made are a good bit thicker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
All padauk 6mm thick vertical grain stave...
Flam, Andy specified the thickness in the OP post, as you can see, they're 6mm thick...

...should have gone to Specsavers, lol... ;-))
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  #16  
Old 08-11-2012, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Andy,

Those are beautiful! The gearhead in me loves the polished aluminium hardware. I love the finish and the look of the whole outfit. Very, very nice work you guys!
Need to hear a sound file from those bad boys.
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

I'd just love to know how tard reacts when he sees this thread. :]

And I wouldn't sell the style of the polished aluminum short against the satin-esque finish you have. Looks very fitting.

I presume that the gap between flesh hoop and rering is adequate for a full tuning range? Also curious about the Superkick.. Always seemed like a rather dead sounding head, though perhaps you need it to tame the shell tone you promise.
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  #18  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Andy, awesome drums man. They are beautiful and you guys really challenged traditional thinking concerning mounting and hardware. Pretty awesome. I'd love to hear them in person and hear the richness of tone that is screaming at me through those pictures. One thing though, how could you place that gorgeous bass drum on a bed of stones! :)
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Andy, the more I look at those drums the more I like them...AND they are the sizes that I would prefer in a kit. If they sound anything like they look.......wow!
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Stunningly Gourgeous...
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Very nice, all the hardware looks really good with the Guager isolation mounts, In a word they look "incredible"!

I like everything right down to the choice of heads. I love superkick and regulator on my radials and even with a ported front head I still get a boom and not just a thud and also love the single ply classic clears as well, personally I use the studio x version but the difference is very small.

I do have 2 questions.
What are the holes thru the shell below the bearing edge on the pic without the top hoop.

Why did you not go with the Guager suspension basket on the floor toms since your already using their suspension mount for the hanging mount.

I only ask because Boogie Woodie is in the process of changing their mounts because they have found that mounting off the bridge actually choked the drum somewhat compared to the RIMS type suspension mounts.

Last edited by tard; 08-12-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Oh my god. Andy, that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. They are stunning. I'd buy those even if they didn't sound good, just because they're beautiful. Of course, you guys are geniuses at making phenomenal sounding drums, so it's almost unfair that these things surely sound as good as they look.

You must be very proud. Congratulations!!
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

I would echo Duncans first post only because I don't think there are enough words. Great Job
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Thanks again guys :) I'm glad you like the look of them. Getting the function just right (especially super low mass), whilst keeping the aesthetic somewhere reminiscent of conventional drums was a challenge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
I think I've nailed what I like aesthetically from these drums.

They're very minimalist in appearance. There's nothing unnecessary and there's nothing there that isn't focussed towards your end goal - supreme sound. It all leads to a very clean appearance and that really adds to the quality. There's no hiding when you make drums as clean as this and the quality is in very clear evidence. Just great.

Interesting that you went for the Aquarian heads too. I suppose you must've found a bulk supplier!
Thank you Duncan. We spent a lot of time testing every tiny element of the construction. If it didn't contribute to the sound quality or function, it didn't make the cut. Absolutely zero tolerance of fashion or BS pseudo benefit features.

We haven't gone for Aquarian yet, just happened to be the ones we're testing first, & we've partnered with Aquarian's UK distributor with Aquarian's blessing. They're waiting for our head testing results too :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
One thing though, how could you place that gorgeous bass drum on a bed of stones! :)
Very very very carefully :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tard View Post
What are the holes thru the shell below the bearing edge on the pic without the top hoop.
We vent these drums via holes around the periphery rather than a grommet style single hole. It has dissipation advantages & relieves pressure just where we want to. The classic range (steam bent) won't be vented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tard View Post
Why did you not go with the Guager suspension basket on the floor toms since your already using their suspension mount for the hanging mount.

I only ask because Boogie Woodie is in the process of changing their mounts because they have found that mounting off the bridge actually choked the drum somewhat compared to the RIMS type suspension mounts.
Gauger's floor tom mount is bulky &, in our opinion, cumbersome. It works well enough though.

The difference in our construction & that of Boogie Woodie is at a fundamental level. Ours isn't strictly a radial bridge. The Volpp design, & subsequently Boogie Woodie's incarnation, caps off the shell each end with a substantial radial bridge. Our design sits externally to the shell. The heads sit directly on the vertical grain of the shell at both ends. In Volpp's design, they're disconnected, hence "bridge". The difference in sonic performance between the two designs is night & day, especially when you factor in solid shell vs. ply.

The reason Boogie Woodie found such a difference in mounting hardware is an adding mass thing. The bridge they use is a sonically dead element, & already many times the mass of our external rering. Bolting on floor tom leg brackets, especially proprietary pot metal/steel ones, just tips the balance. Our brackets are not bolted in the traditional way. & they're incredibly light (as are the aluminium legs), plus that vertical grain connection between batter & reso effectively "bypasses" the bulk of any sustain sink offered by a heavy radial bridge.

Don't get me wrong, I like what Volpp developed, & I also like what Boogie Woodie have done, but origin is many steps ahead of that, & probably significantly more expensive too. Our brackets cost double the price to make than us buying a Gauger floor tom cage at trade price.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Amazing! Can't wait to see a YouTube video!

What choices are there for wraps? :D
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamFlamMan View Post
They look awesome! Great job!

In my experience Padauk has a very open grain. Did you fill the grain with anything? Last time I used a paste wood filler on a padauk jewerly box but I would think it might dampen the shell.
Thank you :) Padauk quite typically has a close grain structure. It's fairly dense and quite heavy, but you can get some open grain depending on the angle of cut with the grain orientation. I can assure you, absolutely no filler used. running into the Guru shop & shouting "filler" would get the same reaction as shouting "ply". We have a lathe big enough to strap you to it, & a nice selection of pointy tools ;)

Ah Flam, you've just been saved by Caddy, who more than trumped you with this!
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What choices are there for wraps? :D
You're a very naughty boy ;)
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

And you expect a drummer to gig with these?!

Seriously, I've never seen a more beautiful set of drums.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Those bass drum hoops are some of the nicest I've seen. Nice job.
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2012, 02:14 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Just gorgeous, Andy. Congratulations to you and Dean. Stellar work from a great team.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:29 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

For some reason, I am just seeing these. Absolutely gorgeous! You should be a proud papa, Andy :)
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

A stunning amount of innovative stuff there Andy...and all together tremendous.
You can tell a lot of thought went into everything. I particularly like the mounting/ suspension systems- floor tom legs and the bass drum spurs.
Not to mention the free-est floating shells I've ever seen. The head tensioning system kinda reminds me of the masterful joinery used in timber frame house building - you know the kind that use no nails....does that make any sense? Just the beautiful simplicity and strength of it I guess....assuming, of course, it is strong!

A million conga rats!!
I'm blown away. Telling every drummer I know about this. And every studio and audio engineer...

Best,
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Gauger's floor tom mount is bulky &, in our opinion, cumbersome. It works well enough though.
I agree with you 100% on that one, when I changed my 16" from a hanging tom to a floor tom I went with a Worldmax basket just for that reason, plus it was less than 1/2 the price of the Guager and was a better match for the rest of my original chrome RIMS mounts. I had to cut the hoop to make it fit on past the radial bridge but used the leg bracket to bolt it back together, you can see the 2 chrome countersunk screws in the bracket. I have since changed the wing nuts to stainless nylock nuts to clean it up even more and also added a set of the pearl floating feet which I just noticed you used as well...lol


Last edited by tard; 08-12-2012 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Many congratulations Andy. Your babies are truly exquisite. As you've said yourself, the tensioning system is deceptively simple- most simple things hide the work to make them that simple!

I think you and Dean can be justifiably proud. It's not easy to do classic and inovative in the one go, but I think you may have pulled it off here!

Judging by the reactions below, I think you may be on a winner here!

Iain
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Some very clever designing, there. I really like the outer ring and "lugs" if you can call them that. Beautiful finish too. Congrats!
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Very nicely done. Congrats!
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Innovative, unique, and gorgeous. Congratulations.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

I like what I see a lot - clean, simple (appearance), and elegant. Even though I don't 'get' some of the design.

Like how the bass drum legs are attached. I'm sure though, if I took it apart, it'd become apparent in a flash.
The upper lip of the tom rings look different too - extra beefy or inward bent. Nice looking lugs too.

I like the look of the aluminum stuff, but know from experience that if it's chromed, it's much easier to keep looking good over the long haul.

The concept, design, and execution are really exceptional. Great stuff.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

congratulations on some very clever designs.. i especially like the solution for the gauger rims mount issue... they are a great mount but cumbersome when hung on the tension rods... but you have solved that very nicely.... again, i am impressed with your design solutions
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

That is an innovative design concept you got there. I've never seen anything like it, and I like what I'm seeing. I'll start saving my money immediately. Hopefully by the time I have enough, they will be available in the USA. Very cool, Andy. This deserves a design Gold Medal.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: First pictures - Guru Origin series - Drummerworld exclusive!

Taking a look at these pics again (and drooling) and thinking how awesomely cool it would be to be able to get a drum head with the design of that gravel on it? Loving the reflection of it on the clear heads and it goes with that natural wood vibe....very organic

Again....such a gorgeous kit!
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