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  #121  
Old 07-07-2011, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

Very interesting Andy! I sat and thought I had it all figured out until you threw in the silicone extrusion. I understand though the idea behind it but wonder if that was the down fall of it. I got the radial design but what if the shell would have been suspended in a grove that was part of the bearing edge, with the bearing edge and the support being made of wood. I know I'm probably not making sense here. But if what I'm thinking is right here , you could have had Dean make you a few different bearing edge designs and then experimented with the different profiles.

Alright , now I'm not making sense to me, I need to draw it out to explain what I mean.

Anyways the strides and effort you put in this were certainly not with out merit, its still a stunning kit and I'm sure it sounds incredible!
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  #122  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

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Originally Posted by gwaco View Post
Very interesting Andy! I sat and thought I had it all figured out until you threw in the silicone extrusion. I understand though the idea behind it but wonder if that was the down fall of it. I got the radial design but what if the shell would have been suspended in a grove that was part of the bearing edge, with the bearing edge and the support being made of wood. I know I'm probably not making sense here. But if what I'm thinking is right here , you could have had Dean make you a few different bearing edge designs and then experimented with the different profiles.

Alright , now I'm not making sense to me, I need to draw it out to explain what I mean.

Anyways the strides and effort you put in this were certainly not with out merit, its still a stunning kit and I'm sure it sounds incredible!
Cheers Gary! What we've ended up with here is an extremely valuable vehicle for further advancement. It's a great kit in it's own right, but it's the first stage towards some really stunning product. This kit was never intended to be a commercially viable product as is. It's too specialised, & too damn expensive to produce.

To answer your ideas on shell/bearing edge interface directly. Resonance & sustain, although related, are two separate things. The real experiment was to see if they could work in harmony without the overtone creating situation of being physically connected. The answer is, they can't, at least, not in a way that results in a truly useable instrument.. If you suspend the shell by any means, even without the involvement of some sort of insulating medium, the ability to sustain as a complete instrument is seriously reduced. Your idea of the shell residing in a groove, with the bearing edge being made of wood, is incredibly close to what we did with this kit. The only addition was a super minimal contact silicone profile that isolated the shell from the bearing edge assembly. This isolation was necessary to prove or dismiss the principal.

We got super high levels of tone, box ticked, but the sustain was poor. The straight fact is that the whole construction needs to resonate as one. This is important, as sustain is only possible when there's sufficient mass. Something very light is easy to excite, can resonate like hell, but it won't sustain. Something of bigger mass takes much greater input to excite, but once resonating, can sustain much longer by virtue of it's mass related inertia.

Similar things have been tried before, but never taken to the extreme of total isolation. Premier with their resonator shells, Peavey with their radial pro, & more recently (& sonically most successfully) Spaun with their cheeze vented edgevent double shell.

Anyhow, enough science. Suffice to say that I've done a lot of experimentation on this project, & if nothing else, I now know precicely which direction to go in next. Dean & I will be working through that over the next few months. We've still achieved the world's first viable 1/8" thick stave shelled kit, we've learn't a ton of valuable stuff that could only be found out by physically building drums, & we now have a defined direction to move forward with. On top of that (after I've performed the final modifications), I'll personally have a totally unique kit of the highest quality that I'll keep for as long as I dare to think ahead. Who knows, it may even be the genesis kit of the next generation of high performance drums. Failed, we have not!

And Duncan, you're right about a specific market for the isolated design. Although not viable in it's own right, it could certainly be incorporated into a general design as an option for those seeking that specific sound.

Again, thanks for the interest & support guys, Andy.
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  #123  
Old 07-09-2011, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

The kit set up for a simple 3 mic (2 overhead condenser, 1 out front high level ribbon) recording yesterday. Clip will be realease with no EQ or processing whatsoever.

Later in the day, I set it up for band tracking c/w full set of close mic's. The flat tracking sound was beautiful, & will require hardly any EQ to the final mix. So much weight in that bass drum, oh man!

Sorry guys, will be a couple of weeks at least before you get these videos, as the film company edit schedule is booked up. Just thought I'd throw this picture up to show you what's happening.

Andy.
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  #124  
Old 07-11-2011, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

& a couple of pic's showing the kit fully mic'd ready for band tracking. I'll try to get some good quality outdoor photo's up. They'll be in the "your gear" section.
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  #125  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

OK. What is with the sub-kick?
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  #126  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

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OK. What is with the sub-kick?
It's a repeat of the mic setup I use live. D112 on the batter & subkick on the reso. The recording mic setup in this picture is for tracking for the band's demo tunes. The earlier picture is the simple 3 mic setup (2 x overhead condensers, 1 x out front ribbon) for the natural (or as near as we can get to natural) recording of the kit for my drum sound demo video. Both should be available in 2-3 weeks.

Live, I find the subkick really captures those lovely below 50Hz frequencies that other mic's miss out on. I desk both the D112 & the subkick totally flat, then mix the two to get the desired sound. Close to useless live on anything under 2K FOH.

I've yet to mix the band demo tracks, but the subkick certainly captured those lower frequencies well in the studio too. The zero EQ sound from the close micing setup is just lovely. I believe that very little EQ will be required on the final mix. The kit produces a superb "dialled in" sound when fitted with coated batter heads. It's near feild sound is just lovely, & that's especially pleasing as the kit was designed to do just that. Ok, that's my opinion, but you'll be able to judge for yourself in a few weeks time. Shame about the sonic limitations of Youtube, but with good cans, you'll get close.
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  #127  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

Good luck with the recordings. Can't wait to hear how it sounds. Really hope this flies for you.
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  #128  
Old 07-12-2011, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Totally new drum concept, the build journey.

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Good luck with the recordings. Can't wait to hear how it sounds. Really hope this flies for you.
Recordings done, but a couple of weeks yet before I can post them here.

Good pic's now up in the "your gear" section. Kit set up as a 4 piece to avoid the distraction of the rack. Cheers Sticks, Andy.
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