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  #1  
Old 10-06-2010, 01:43 PM
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Default PA system. Who pays?

I am in a cover band full of mostly old guys. 5 to be exact. I provide the jam/rehersal room. I got a powered PA for the room. Eventually we went on the road and I bring the PA. Between hardware, FOH speakers, floor monitors, stands bla bla bla I probably have about 2 grand or better in it. Plus upkeep and transportation, and I also run it from the drum kit. Not the optimum setup obviously but it works and we get no complaints.
I also provide the practice amps and the bass amp for shows. I'm not a cheapskate. But I'm not rich either.
Well I figure that when we do paying gigs, that the PA should get a cut of the pay. I'm saving us the cost of renting or paying a sound guy, and it gets done reasonably well.
It's not much money, trust me.
Our older guitar player thinks otherwise and I should just provide it because I have it. We all sing. Everyone else is fine with it.
Obviously this doesn't come into play when we do a gig with a house system, though I seem to do a better job of it for whatever reason. Too many dials maybe.
What I am wondering, is what is proper etiquette in this situation?
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

I think it's just a matter of what the band can agree on before a gig. I don't own a PA but I never gave a bigger cut of a gig to anyone who did. As a drummer, I don't think I would own my own PA system, maybe you should sell it and let them buy one.
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by TFITTING942 View Post
I think it's just a matter of what the band can agree on before a gig. I don't own a PA but I never gave a bigger cut of a gig to anyone who did. As a drummer, I don't think I would own my own PA system, maybe you should sell it and let them buy one.
I initially got the PA to equip the rehearsal room. Not specifically as a drummer.
We all have day jobs and play music for fun. I think a communally owned PA in this situation would be a mess. Maybe I'm wrong though. Plus it would pain me to put MORE money into another PA and also annoy me to rent.
This actually was the discussion last night before the next gig. Four yea's and one nay. I'll see how this thread goes. Not the end of the world if I just shut up and play.
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by jim_gregory View Post
I am in a cover band full of mostly old guys. ... Well I figure that when we do paying gigs, that the PA should get a cut of the pay. I'm saving us the cost of renting or paying a sound guy, and it gets done reasonably well.
...Our older guitar player thinks otherwise and I should just provide it because I have it. ....
What I am wondering, is what is proper etiquette in this situation?
This is a common problem...

Stick to your idea... Get a sound man, your band will sound better and less back breaking work for you. PA's get damaged, wear out, speakers blow up, etc.

If you can't get a sound man, have each band member provide for some of the PA or pay a portion of the money from jobs for PA use and repair. You can get an idea of the sharing price after getting quotes for sound man work.
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Your older guitar player sounds like a tight git, sell your PA and make him buy one, he'll have even more complaints then !!!!!

I've seen both sides of this coin, I bought a PA when I had some spare money and was using an electronic kit and didn't deduct anything from the others but it was my choice to buy it and if we had of stayed together and were regularily gigging for money then I would have wanted some re-imbersement but wouldn't have minded stomping up the cash to buy it in the 1st place.
I've also depped in a band to help them out and they took money off the top for PA / lighting before splitting what was left. Despite the fact I play for the love of it and will gig for nothing that did grate especially as I have no long term gain from it and was getting some people I know out of a hole when their drummer was stricken with MS.
I think at the end of the day if you're a band that's been together for a while and are gigging regularily why should you alone carry the cost and it's only reasonable that you're repayed but when you have been then band the owns it not you.
Alternatively divide the cost between you now and then maybe put a small contribution in when you gig for maintenance, if one of the band members leaves they then get re-imbersed their stake less some depreciation and any replacement then puts in their share.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:12 PM
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2010, 03:25 PM
TFITTING942
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by jim_gregory View Post
Should have seen him kick and scream when I told the band to provide their own Mic's stand's and cables for live work. And STILL that's just taking care of themselves really.
Of course when I built him a new sail for his boat and presented it free he was very nice. That was a 2 thousand dollar sail. I'm thinking at this point screw him and carry on without him.
THat may be an option to consider. The other guys are at least willing to chip in and feel that it is fair. Don't wreck the band over it though, tough call really.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

that's a touchy situation. in my experience, when you start cutting into band member's pay people start getting pissed off. but it does seem reasonable that you should get some kind of special compensation considering how much you're bringing to the table. without you and your PA there would be no band, right? not to mention you're providing the practice space and the bass amp. that's a lot!

my band is actually going through a similar argument over the PA. i'll be watching this thread because i want to see how other bands handle it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

when you joined you should have asked for a cut for the PA, otherwise its just something youre going to provide if need be. My drum kit is well over 10K in cost and I have the most gear to carry, but I accept my share without any expectations more as it was my choice to procure these things, much like it was your choice to procure the PA. You also mention that the PA isnt top shelf, most hired sound guys use above average stuff, so you pay them for their good stuff and their expertise.


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  #9  
Old 10-06-2010, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

I was in a situation a couple years ago where one of the members, Mike, had a PA. I never had a problem with him getting extra pay but there was a point when I thought it was getting unreasonable. He always insisted on running everything from stage himself and I never really felt like he did a great job of it. We were all willing to help him get it set up but for some reason we were always hard pressed to start on time and never really got what I thought was a proper sound check. He always said that he would adjust it on the fly. Some of my friends would tell me that our sound was really muddy.
The normal cost to hire a fully equipped sound guy here in Omaha is about $300 per night. I was always willing to pay a pro that much to come out and make us sound great but there's no way I was willing to pay Mike that much when I thought it sounded like crap. We locked him in at $150 plus his equal cut as a band member. He was never happy with that. He thought he should get the customary $300 plus an equal cut. Why would we pay him that when , for the same price, we could pay someone with a better system to come out and make us sound great? If we were stuck using Mike's system with him running it from stage, we should at least be saving some money. That kind of brings up another question that I've often pondered. Is it possible to run a full system (with mic'd up drums and everything) from stage and have it sound good on a consistent basis?
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
when you joined you should have asked for a cut for the PA, otherwise its just something youre going to provide if need be. My drum kit is well over 10K in cost and I have the most gear to carry, but I accept my share without any expectations more as it was my choice to procure these things, much like it was your choice to procure the PA. You also mention that the PA isnt top shelf, most hired sound guys use above average stuff, so you pay them for their good stuff and their expertise.


F
Same here. I've got over $10,000 wrapped up in drums, cases, cymbals, hardware, mics and cables. Why should the guy with the $2500 PA and the $1500 guitar rig be getting an extra cut? LOL ;-)
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2010, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Our bass player has all the sound equipment we need. Since hiring a sound guy typically costs us about 300 dollars, any paid gigs, he gets the "sound fee". Amazingly, he doesnt accept it, becuase he has fun with us and likes to share his gear. But we at least offered. If I were you, I'd do what the other guy said and hire a sound man. Pretend you dont have that gear at all...see how fast your bandmates would be willing to pay to use your stuff rather than outsoure your sound for a lot more...probably.
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2010, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
when you joined you should have asked for a cut for the PA, otherwise its just something youre going to provide if need be. My drum kit is well over 10K in cost and I have the most gear to carry, but I accept my share without any expectations more as it was my choice to procure these things, much like it was your choice to procure the PA. You also mention that the PA isnt top shelf, most hired sound guys use above average stuff, so you pay them for their good stuff and their expertise.


F
A different angle on this is that your kit is your tool of the trade. We each carry our own cross with respect to personal gear......that's a given.

But to lump one member with a cost that would be ordinarily be shared?.....I'm not so sure. If you hired the PA and paid a tech, the cost would be incurred by all. It's a point worth enquiring about, for mine.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

I disagree with Florian. My gear isnt near as much as his, but it's my instrument. Your PA system is being used by everyone. It's totally different. Sound is a shared commodity to be used by the whole band. Yes, each member has his or her individual gear, but overall sound cost produced in it's entirety should be split. Just because you own this stuff doesn't mean the whole gang can simply take advantage. Any paid gigs you get, you should keep the portion that would have been given to a sound person as if you had hired one. Then the rest, divide up evenly. You are basically working two jobs, a drummer and sound guy. Youare a hired sound guy, who just happens to be onstage behind a drumkit during the show...
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

It's simple...do what I did. I bought the PA with the understanding I would be compensated for the purchase and for running it. That didn't happen. So told my band "look, I know WE need the PA, but I don't, so if you can't help me out I'm going to sell it and we can just pitch in and hire a sound guy when we need to." Not long after that we settled that issue and the PA was paid for.

As for running it...we hire in a buddy to do that if we have to bring our own PA. We still set it up, do our own sound check, and tear it down at the end of the night. So paying him to come in drink free beer and watch the lights on the board is fairly cheap. :) And to get him paid we give him his cut BEFORE we take ours.

Another thing I'd like to add is as a group we are all in debt to each other in some way. My singer owes me like $250, my guitarist owes my singer like a grand, I owe my guitarist like $200, and my bass player plays through my singers $3500 rig. It's just how it is. Sometimes we hafta help each other out financially in order to continuely progress, and there's no shame in that for me...or any of us. I would gladly loan my bandmates money if I have it...regardless of the amount. It's just money, and when money comes between me and my friends/bandmates, my morals are obviously all F#$%^D!
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Well, w all know hauling your kit is a given--and you can use as much, or little of a kit as you want, so that shouldn't enter the equation....but....

A PA with 2K into it for most bar band situations is plenty enough. No, it's not "top shelf", but in MOST bars that I used to play in (I play in better places these days TG) that's probably better than what those bars even had (a Drum monitor????)

Since the OP supplies the PA AND the Bass amp for shows, 10% (at least) off the top is not too much to ask from "the band" IMO.

It's the cost of up-keep (at the very least). Cords, mic's etc...aren't cheap, and if he's the only one providing it, and doing all the moving of it (AND his kit), that's more than anyone else is doing. Gas and the vehicle to move it all in is worth something. Loading and unloading and the extra time it takes, besides the kit?
I HOPE he has help with it.

If that 10% isn't acceptable to the rest of the band, I'd think about not providing all the gear, or find another band.

Let someone else pick up the PA a couple times and see what happens....(I'm talking worse case scenario with band member willingness to pitch in and help too).

Jim seems to be the only one self-contained in the business--which is what it IS if you are playing out for money.
Anyone who complains about not wanting to chip in when everything is provided shouldn't have the luxury of being involved.

What happens if a speaker or mic is blown? Or a cord or mic stand gets messed up?
That type of person is usually the first one to be conveniently absent, or "sorry, I'm tapped out this week" when it comes time to chip in to fix something.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with it!
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by MisterZero View Post
I disagree with Florian. My gear isnt near as much as his, but it's my instrument. Your PA system is being used by everyone. It's totally different. Sound is a shared commodity to be used by the whole band. Yes, each member has his or her individual gear, but overall sound cost produced in it's entirety should be split. Just because you own this stuff doesn't mean the whole gang can simply take advantage. Any paid gigs you get, you should keep the portion that would have been given to a sound person as if you had hired one. Then the rest, divide up evenly. You are basically working two jobs, a drummer and sound guy. Youare a hired sound guy, who just happens to be onstage behind a drumkit during the show...
I agree with the above a 10K kit is totally your choice and for your use not everybody else with this or any other band that you choose and for use at home / practice and you could have a 300 kit instead but the PA is a neccessity for the whole band that's shared so why should one person carry that cost.
Using Florian's arguement the guitarist / bass player could buy 10k instruments each and the vocalist's 10K diamond studded mics - who'd pay for the pa then ?????
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

To be clear guy's, I am talking about 50 buck's a night. Not 300.00.
No not top notch gear or a top notch operator. But it's getting the job done with never a complaint from anyone so far.
I appreciate the comments!
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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To be clear guy's, I am talking about 50 buck's a night. Not 300.00.
No not top notch gear or a top notch operator. But it's getting the job done with never a complaint from anyone so far.
I appreciate the comments!
I can't believe that your older guitar player has a problem with $50. He's not being reasonable at all.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by jim_gregory View Post
To be clear guy's, I am talking about 50 buck's a night. Not 300.00.
No not top notch gear or a top notch operator. But it's getting the job done with never a complaint from anyone so far.
I appreciate the comments!
Then I'd hope everyone pitches in to move and set it up, and pitches in when something gets blown. That's definitely not too much to ask.
50 bucks a night isn't much to work with, so the least everyone can do is pitch in with help and throw in some bucks to fix something.

And since you own the stuff, you never have to worry about that stuff if you need to find another band down the road. That's worth something too.

Good luck!
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

I'd tell the guitarist you're doubling it to $100 then stand back and wait for the display to begin :-)
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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I can't believe that your older guitar player has a problem with $50. He's not being reasonable at all.
Actually it's 10 bucks a head. And I put in ten. That makes 50.
Will any of this make or break me? No.
But I do think he is being unreasonable.
This thread is really about principal I guess. But I like the different opinions!
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

So, the guitarist is pitching a tizzy fit over $10/gig?! Tell him to cut out the Mickey D's run after the show and deal with it.

$10 is completely reasonable. I don't understand why he wouldn't be willing to be a team player and pony up the cash.

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Old 10-06-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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So, the guitarist is pitching a tizzy fit over $10/gig?! Tell him to cut out the Mickey D's run after the show and deal with it.

$10 is completely reasonable. I don't understand why he wouldn't be willing to be a team player and pony up the cash.

~AJ
+1 tell him to get his own PA system and see how much money he saves...
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

You kinda screwed the pooch by not having this talk BEFORE you guys started gigging. If you try to make changes to the pay system NOW, it's not going to be pretty (as you well know).

What I did was pay for a P.A. outright, figuring that I would use it, or use it with future projects, rehearsals, etc. No biggie. I found out that when you have a P.A., it naturally makes you more alluring to bands that don't have one. I played with one such band, saying, "Hey, yeah, sure...I'll bring my PA along!" Bad idea. After that, it was taken for granted, and there was no negotiation of my getting more pay for doing more work. Plus, they didn't even help me schlep it around or set it up. Obviously, that's not fair, and the guys were kinda crude anyways, so I quit that band. Ever since, when I play out with my PA (currently with 2 groups I'm in), there is a "PA rental fee" which is either a set fee or a percentage cut of the band's pay. That works out great, because I feel as though I'm compensated for the extra time and effort I put in for the band. I also work on the side as a soundman now, which is usually a nightmare, but I charge enough to make it worth the headache.

The "communal PA" idea is ridiculous. When the band splits up, it's a nightmare to deal with, and everyone usually ends up feeling gipped. A "pay out" is the only real solution to that, which is ***much*** easier to do if you have savings in your band fund (you DO have a band fund, don't you? ALWAYS have a band fund...). Also, when a member leaves the group and a new one joins, the "buy in" is awkward since they had no part/opinion of the original purchase.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Everyone should be expected to bring what they need to to the table. I have a PA but I rarely ever need to mike the drums. I am usually compensated an extra $10 to $20 for bringing it and setting it up for everyone else to use. Sometimes in bands, everyone has their own stash of sound gear and if everyone does their part to bring what they have, the band has a decent sound system.

Your band members sound informal and laid back. To see if that's really the case, sell the PA, or tell them you're not willing to schlep it around anymore and they will need to amplify themselves. Then see how laid back they are. You should rarely need to amplify your own drums and if you do need to, the house will have its own system.

Do your band mates help with setup and takedown of the system? Do they regularly thank you for letting the communal band use your private resources for free? Do they treat you to an occasional burger, beer or something? Do they offer to pool money to pay for things that get worn out or damaged? If they don't do at least a few of these things, they're just inconsiderate and taking advantage of you.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Hey Jim, I just thought of something. If theyre not willing to pitch in, tell them that your PA needs a new part. Pretend it's broken, unless you dont like lying to them. This way you can avoid the awkwardness of asking for money for using it....See how they handle that.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

This stuff drives me crazy. I'm in a similar situation where all of my gear gets used for gigs and what I presented to the band that whoever books the gig gets an additional 10% of the gig money and they're responsible for getting a PA to the gig. I said I'd be happy to let my PA be used, but if they want use it and expect me to transport it that it will cost 5% of the booking fee, if they want to pick it up and do all the setting up of it, I only charge them 3% of the booking fee. 2 guys in the group don't like the idea, so I'm finding other players and all gigs I book from here on out will be played with the players that agree to this.
It's really as simple as that. People who are using your resources without accounting for it are simply annoying mooches and I have no tolerance for that garbage.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Hey Jim, I just thought of something. If theyre not willing to pitch in, tell them that your PA needs a new part. Pretend it's broken, unless you dont like lying to them. This way you can avoid the awkwardness of asking for money for using it....See how they handle that.
Yeah, that's the passive way to deal with it. (I know, 'cause I used to be that way. :D )

Just be upfront with them, and be ready for a confrontation. Be real, and expect them to be unreasonable. That way, you'll be mentally prepared to handle the situation...

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Originally Posted by droveto View Post
This stuff drives me crazy. I'm in a similar situation where all of my gear gets used for gigs and what I presented to the band that whoever books the gig gets an additional 10% of the gig money and they're responsible for getting a PA to the gig. I said I'd be happy to let my PA be used, but if they want use it and expect me to transport it that it will cost 5% of the booking fee, if they want to pick it up and do all the setting up of it, I only charge them 3% of the booking fee. 2 guys in the group don't like the idea, so I'm finding other players and all gigs I book from here on out will be played with the players that agree to this.
It's really as simple as that. People who are using your resources without accounting for it are simply annoying mooches and I have no tolerance for that garbage.
5%? 3%? 2%? How much money are you MAKING on these gigs? Must be a lot...

Make it easier on everybody...offer your gear for use, and set a flat fee for its usage that will be fair. Find out what it costs to rent a PA suitable for your group, and undercut it a bit so that your gear is used (that your band is familiar with), and you get compensated for your time/effort. win/win!

I'd, personally, rather take a $800 gig that makes me work a bit harder than a $600 gig where I just simply show up and set up my drums/mic. I mean, if I'm going to be there ANYWAYS...
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

i don't get this, maybe it's just me but i don't get why everybody is so insistent on getting more money cuz they have some gear thats getting used. isn't that just as unreasonable as people not wanting to pay you for it? it just seems greedy on both sides to me. on the rare occasion we do play a gig, pretty much everything on the stage including the pa and foh is mine (except maybe an fx pedal or something), the studio, drums, guitars, amps, bass, bass amp, mixer, recording equipment, computer, lights, all of it belongs to me. yet i have never once considered asking for more money just cuz i happen to own it. i've never had anybody tell me they won't help me carry it or set up or tear down or even haul it. i'm pretty sure if i did ask they would give it to me but i never would.

besides you own it, if you sell it your getting the money right? so everybody pays you to use it then you sell it and get that money to. so in the end you come out way far ahead and everybody else gets less. that just doesn't seem fair to me at all. i didn't go buy all that stuff to make more money, i bought it with the thoughts that we had it to use any time we wanted for whatever use we wanted and to better the band, if it makes it a little better for us i have no problems with it being used, after all it benefits me as well. if i didn't have the money to buy it i wouldn't have.

maybe that's the solution, if you all can't come to a reasonable compromise then maybe you shouldn't be using it.

sorry but the idea of "i'm gonna buy something to help the band, now everybody pay me to use it" is just wrong to me........
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

[quote=azrae1l;752098] pretty much everything on the stage including the pa and foh is mine (except maybe an fx pedal or something), the studio, drums, guitars, amps, bass, bass amp, mixer, recording equipment, computer, lights, all of it belongs to me. /QUOTE
I have never heard of a situation like this. I assume you play drums. Dont the guitar/bass players want to play their own guitars and not yours or is that not an option and they must use your gear for some reason?
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
i don't get this, maybe it's just me but i don't get why everybody is so insistent on getting more money cuz they have some gear thats getting used. isn't that just as unreasonable as people not wanting to pay you for it? it just seems greedy on both sides to me. on the rare occasion we do play a gig, pretty much everything on the stage including the pa and foh is mine (except maybe an fx pedal or something), the studio, drums, guitars, amps, bass, bass amp, mixer, recording equipment, computer, lights, all of it belongs to me. yet i have never once considered asking for more money just cuz i happen to own it. i've never had anybody tell me they won't help me carry it or set up or tear down or even haul it. i'm pretty sure if i did ask they would give it to me but i never would.

besides you own it, if you sell it your getting the money right? so everybody pays you to use it then you sell it and get that money to. so in the end you come out way far ahead and everybody else gets less. that just doesn't seem fair to me at all. i didn't go buy all that stuff to make more money, i bought it with the thoughts that we had it to use any time we wanted for whatever use we wanted and to better the band, if it makes it a little better for us i have no problems with it being used, after all it benefits me as well. if i didn't have the money to buy it i wouldn't have.

maybe that's the solution, if you all can't come to a reasonable compromise then maybe you shouldn't be using it.

sorry but the idea of "i'm gonna buy something to help the band, now everybody pay me to use it" is just wrong to me........
You are obviously an extremely selfless person and I applaud you for your generosity. That's just not a realistic way of thinking for most people. Every situation is different and there's no one solution that's going to work for everyone. I don't think someone is greedy for wanting a little extra for providing a sound system. That doesn't fall under the "personal gear" category and no one person should be expected to take on the cost by themselves. As far as you providing all of the gear on stage, that's just unheard of. I would feel like I was taking advantage if I were one of your band members.
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  #32  
Old 10-06-2010, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by jim_gregory View Post
I am in a cover band full of mostly old guys. 5 to be exact. I provide the jam/rehersal room. I got a powered PA for the room. Eventually we went on the road and I bring the PA. Between hardware, FOH speakers, floor monitors, stands bla bla bla I probably have about 2 grand or better in it. Plus upkeep and transportation, and I also run it from the drum kit. Not the optimum setup obviously but it works and we get no complaints.
I also provide the practice amps and the bass amp for shows. I'm not a cheapskate. But I'm not rich either.
Well I figure that when we do paying gigs, that the PA should get a cut of the pay. I'm saving us the cost of renting or paying a sound guy, and it gets done reasonably well.
It's not much money, trust me.
Our older guitar player thinks otherwise and I should just provide it because I have it. We all sing. Everyone else is fine with it.
Obviously this doesn't come into play when we do a gig with a house system, though I seem to do a better job of it for whatever reason. Too many dials maybe.
What I am wondering, is what is proper etiquette in this situation?
Sell the PA (or store it) and let everyone rent one.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

As others posted it's really a touchy situation but that's what you take on when you own the PA you wouldn't. have a gig without the PA but you wouldn't. have a gig without the guitar player, bass player,etc. you catch my drift.

If the band is being bitchy & most importantly "You're not Happy" put together another band afterall you own the PA.

I guess it would come down too how bad the person,persons need the money especially with the economy how it is, I would not ask for the money if I knew my fellow bandmates were hurting for money but if they're rich ask double LMAO.

Good Luck,
Bonzolead
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

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Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
i don't get this, maybe it's just me but i don't get why everybody is so insistent on getting more money cuz they have some gear thats getting used.
Depends on the gigging situation, but no, it is not unreasonable to get a bit extra for use of equipment--if only for keeping it in an account in case something needs repairing.
No one needs to make a killing off the PA, but if a band is making $50, a 5 spot for gas is the least that could be given to someone hauling the stuff. No one should complain about that.
What if something happens and YOUR board gets fried somehow? Are you going to say "oh well?" I doubt it. I know I wouldn't. If the band is using it, and it's one of those things that happens, then the whole band should pony up the dough equally to get it repaired.

A band that plays out a few times a month, and one person owns the PA--the band is making some money. There's wear and tear on equipment, hauling it, setting it up, etc...not to mention cords that go bad, or a mic that fritzes out...who's gonna pay for that? Just the owner of the PA? That's not fair. A 57 or 58 is about 100 bucks (give or take), and what if there's no time to get a used one on eBay for 30? A good cord that's gonna last will run 20-30 bucks easy. A few of those and the bill adds up quick.
That's what a "band fund" is for.

IF everyone is pitching in to set up, tear down, & making sure nothing is left behind, then the person who is providing extra gear doesn't feel like it's not appreciated.
But if some people don't help, or always seem to show up late when stuff has to be moved...that isn't right.

I'd think that anyone singing should provide their own vocal mic and a cord, maybe even a stand. When it's packed up, it should all be in the same case/container so someone doesn't "forget to bring it".

Whatever instrument they play should be their own as well, and anything that goes along with it to get "their sound".
UNLESS you're the band leader and want a certain look for presentation. THEN by all means provide whatever it is you want.
In that case, you should also be prepared for any and all up-keep on whatever is used, and if something happens to any of it, then it's just part of the deal.

Whatever, JMO.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

[quote=TFITTING942;752104]
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
pretty much everything on the stage including the pa and foh is mine (except maybe an fx pedal or something), the studio, drums, guitars, amps, bass, bass amp, mixer, recording equipment, computer, lights, all of it belongs to me. /QUOTE
I have never heard of a situation like this. I assume you play drums. Dont the guitar/bass players want to play their own guitars and not yours or is that not an option and they must use your gear for some reason?
actually i'm the rhythm guitarist and vocalist, but i also play bass and took up drums almost a year ago. the bassist (well when we had one, since he quit recently) and the lead guitarist and our usual drummer use their own instruments for practice and they play beat up old guitars with problems. for shows, most of mine are flawless and more "flashy" so they opt to use mine. my band mates are your typical starving musicians that work low paying day jobs and they can't afford good equipment. i have a good paying job and i'm a gear hound like crazy so i had full stacks, bass stacks and around 50 guitars and i can't play them all so why not let my firends use them as they need to?
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
i don't get why everybody is so insistent on getting more money cuz they have some gear thats getting used.
I didn't buy the gear just so I could spend more time loading, hauling, setting up, running, tearing down, loading out, maintaining it. That's not a passion for me. That's labor. I bought the tools to allow me to maximize how much work I could get paid for. Have you ever had a plumber or a carpenter come out to your house to do a job, and then offer to do more work for free?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
isn't that just as unreasonable as people not wanting to pay you for it?
Two sides of the same coin. But, if you didn't provide the service/equipment, they'd have to either buy it themselves, rent it, or hire somebody to do it. It's much cheaper if it's one of your own. That's how it works in this business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
it just seems greedy on both sides to me.
Being compensated for work that you do isn't greedy. It's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
on the rare occasion we do play a gig, pretty much everything on the stage including the pa and foh is mine (except maybe an fx pedal or something), the studio, drums, guitars, amps, bass, bass amp, mixer, recording equipment, computer, lights, all of it belongs to me. yet i have never once considered asking for more money just cuz i happen to own it.
Since it's on a rare occasion that you gig, I can see how you don't see the other point of view. Some of us play music/entertain for a living. Now, imagine hauling all of that stuff around for 10-12 gigs a week, arriving 1.5 hours before everyone else and setting it all up so that the other members of the band simply have to show up 5 minutes before the gig starts, plug in, and play. Oh, and you're getting paid the same as everyone else...does that seem fair? Do you feel as though the work load is distributed evenly? Is everyone putting in the same number of hours of work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
i've never had anybody tell me they won't help me carry it or set up or tear down or even haul it.
Neither have I, but that's how it is. I'll help the guitar players haul in their rigs, too. You help each other out, that's just common courtesy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
besides you own it, if you sell it your getting the money right? so everybody pays you to use it then you sell it and get that money to. so in the end you come out way far ahead and everybody else gets less. that just doesn't seem fair to me at all.
I'll start writing letters of complaint to all of the local gear rental stores in a minute. I'm sure they'll change their ways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
i didn't go buy all that stuff to make more money, i bought it with the thoughts that we had it to use any time we wanted for whatever use we wanted and to better the band, if it makes it a little better for us i have no problems with it being used, after all it benefits me as well. if i didn't have the money to buy it i wouldn't have.
And that's wonderful for somebody who does it as a hobby on the side. It's different when music is your occupation, your lifestyle, your business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
maybe that's the solution, if you all can't come to a reasonable compromise then maybe you shouldn't be using it.
Bingo! And then when THAT balls drops, then negotiations will start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azrae1l View Post
sorry but the idea of "i'm gonna buy something to help the band, now everybody pay me to use it" is just wrong to me........
I didn't buy my equipment to help any band in particular. I bought it to diversify the services (yes, PAID services) that I offer. I often tell people that I get paid to move music gear, but the bonus of the job is that I get to play music, too...
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

My suggestion would be to offer your band the opportunity to use the money that they chip in to buy the band a PA system. With all people knowing where it's going, maybe a few extra dollars might be chipped into the till. It will take some time to accumulate enough money, but all will see a definite goal for the money they submit. If something should happen to the band in the mean time, the money could be evenly split. I would continue to offer your PA for your gigs since by now it's a precedent that probably should have never been started. A lot of my suggestions all depends on a lot of variables, but maybe it will work in everyone's favor.

I've been in situations such as this and sometimes kid gloves are needed.

Good luck,
Dennis
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: PA system. Who pays?

The singer pays!!!
Yea Right! In the perfect world!
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:17 AM
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The singer pays!!!
Yea Right! In the perfect world!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

*wipes tears from eyes*

Yeah, how many singers do you know actually want to lift a finger for their band? Well, besides lead singers that also double on an instrument...
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:25 AM
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Yeah, how many singers do you know actually want to lift a finger for their band? Well, besides lead singers that also double on an instrument...
Take it easy on 'em Caddy......it can't be easy bowling up 5 mins before a gig and plugging a mic into a lead......come to think of it, I've never actually met one who was advanced enough to tackle that task. :-)
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