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Old 04-11-2019, 02:09 AM
piccupstix piccupstix is offline
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Default Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Or combination thereof? I know it's been beat to death and it's whatever works for the individual, but if I'm going to spend more hours on practicing this shuffle than it would take to learn to land an Airbus it would be great to hear some of your experiences learning it. Thx.
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Practice using your wrists and fingers more since that is probably a weak point.

Moeller, abbreviated moeller, and push pull are good to practice too.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:55 AM
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williamsbclontz williamsbclontz is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

The shuffle is pretty physical. Especially the double shuffle. Most pros youíll see playing it will use arms wrists and fingers. Itís also really tiring, I donít care if you have the best technique and youíre the calmest drummer in the world, if you play that thing at a fast tempo by the end of the song youíll be sweating

Some guys like Steve Jordan will even make it harder by buzzing some of the notes on the snare drum, or buddy miles will play it with crazy bass drum patterns

YouTube is really your best friend when it comes to technique though, so Iíd look up videos
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

In my humble experience push-pull is the way to get a fluid shuffle going. Preferabely in french grip, and the pull of the fingers would be on 1,2,3 and 4. Let the hand and arm come up on the "pull" to follow the stick's natural movement. Light and easy. By that I don't mean that it's easy...
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Keith Carlock explains and plays (!) some of them pretty nice in this one..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2YG_-3Ov0
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:11 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

FWIW, since I'm not an extreme player, I basically only use my arms to take me to which drum I need to hit, not to motivate the stick.

In other words, my suggestion is to drive the stick from the hands/wrist/fingers, especially the back fingers. Think of a one handed clap while holding a stick. The elbow might move some, but, it's only to allow the hands/wrist/fingers to do their thing. The elbow is not the motivator, the hands/wrists/fingers are. The shuffle requires a certain finesse with the hands, and doesn't start from the elbow. Like if the stick is grabbed like a hammer handle, there's not a whole lot of finesse that can be done with the stick mashed against the palm. The hand works best when it opens and closes, like a one handed clap, and the stick is off the palm most of the time.

Of course everyone is different. This is how I would teach it, if I taught,
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:00 AM
piccupstix piccupstix is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Thanks for your posts. Great ideas here.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:15 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Just learn to put an upstroke with your wrist on the little note before the 2/4. It's super easy and works at any volume.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:28 PM
TMe TMe is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

I've had no luck explaining my theory to anyone.

The two different phrasings sound slightly different and feel a lot different.

| tom - tom, floor - floor, tom - tom, floor - floor |

...tom| tom -, floorfloor - , tomtom - , floorfloor -, tom|tom...

I think of the first (starting with the downbeat) as a Blues shuffle, and the second (starting with the syncopated beat) as a Jazz shuffle, because that's where I most often hear them used. Rockers always go to the Jazz shuffle when trying to play a Blues song, and it offends my ears.

Last edited by TMe; 04-12-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:46 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMe View Post
I've had no luck explaining my theory to anyone.

The two different phrasings sound slightly different and feel a lot different.

| tom - tom, floor - floor, tom - tom, floor - floor |

...tom| tom -, floorfloor - , tomtom - , floorfloor -, tom|tom...

I think of the first (starting with the downbeat) as a Blues shuffle, and the second (starting with the syncopated beat) as a Jazz shuffle, because that's where I most often hear them used. Rockers always go to the Jazz shuffle when trying to play a Blues song, and it offends my ears.
The jazz shuffle is when the right hand plays the basic jazz pattern: "1 2 a3 4 a"

There are many variations of the blues shuffle, but usually it means to simply be playing a shuffle pattern (1 a2 a3 a4 a) somewhere on the kit, with the right or left hand.

The tom-floor things you mention -- not sure what to call those. Usually, a shuffle rhythm is played with one hand, not two. And, generally, though not always, a shuffle is played on the ride, hi-hats, or snare (as in a Texas shuffle), with a strong backbeat on the snare. So your examples are not typical of the genre, because they're on the toms, and would be played with two hands, with no snare backbeat in sight.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:09 PM
EricT43 EricT43 is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

I play with a blues band pretty regularly, so I play a lot of shuffles. I am not very fast in the hands, so on the really uptempo stuff it gets challenging.

My advice to the OP, use the largest body part that goes fast enough for the tempo you are playing. In other words, if it's a relatively slow tempo, get your arms involved, this will take some of the work away from the smaller muscles of your wrists and fingers. Staying relaxed is key. Using your arm at 10% of its capacity is a lot easier than using your fingers at 80% of their capacity. Of course, the arms won't be able to go as fast, so as tempo increases, you'll naturally use more wrists and fingers. Overall I would say don't overthink it. Practice the technique with arms, wrists, and fingers so that you can do all three properly, and then your body will naturally use the most efficient method for the situation.

The double shuffle, or Chicago-style shuffle, where you are playing in unison on both hands (left on snare and right on HH or ride) took some practice, but now I feel pretty comfortable with it. At higher speeds I use mostly fingers with some wrist. Lately I've been working on accenting the quarter notes more strongly, which makes it like doing tap-accent drills, you really have to snap the fingers on that second stroke. At the same time, I'm trying not to overly accent the cymbal on 2 and 4, which requires some dynamic independence of the hands. It's been challenging, but when it comes together, the feel of the groove is awesome.

At high tempos where my hands have trouble keeping up, I go to a Texas shuffle or jazz shuffle. Texas shuffle meaning quarter notes only on the right hand, left hand doing a-2-a a-4-a, giving each hand a break. With the jazz shuffle, I use the same left hand pattern, and play the jazz ride pattern 1 2-a 3 4-a - this is a good independence builder.
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Old 04-20-2019, 06:57 AM
piccupstix piccupstix is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Makes a lot of sense.

Still working on it and appreciate the feedback. Thx again!
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:42 AM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: Double Shuffle - Arms, Wrists, Fingers

Shuffles take more work and people don't practic them enough.

There's a reason why I really only practice swing, shuffle and odd time. The rest becomes easy then.

In that regards you really just have to do it. Add som vocabulary, push the tempo, back off a bit to clean it up and refine your motion so you can relax. Wash, rinse, repeat

Don't work on anything else. Listen to music that relates. Live in that world. When not doing that, take a break instead of working on stuff that takes your focus or energy away.

You can play along to stuff, use something like Ultimate Dlowdowner if your favourite tracks are too fast, but I strongly recommend playing a lot by yourself in your own tempo, not even to a click to get the feel and make sure your coordination is spot on.

When you really start getting a feel for it, don't stop. That's when you want to push on to the more challenging stuff you might have thought you'd never be able to do. Nany steps. It's just about patience, consistency and smart practice aka working on the stuff you don't know how to do, slow and perfectly at first.
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