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  #161  
Old 01-07-2012, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Boom, that is great news!

Things happen, even with great brands, and I think DW is a great brand. That is the point I was trying to make early on in this thread, when people were insisting nothing could possibly be wrong with a set of drums that left their factory, that they could only have been damaged in transit or by someone who took them out of the box and banged them around.

Yes, the marketing video talks about the foolproof QA process, the "white room" and all that, but workers have bad days, get disgruntled, etc. Things can always go wrong. I have first-hand knowledge of problems my drummer friends have had with drums they received from companies who supposedly never let a bad drum out. I'll say it again: All the brands do, from time to time.

So any company can ship a dud, but what matters is how well they take care of the customer when it happens. That Mr. Good phoned you up and got personally involved speaks volumes about the company. I have every confidence that the new drums you receive will be everything you hoped for. I think this is a great resolution for you.

Don't forget to post pics and sound files when they arrive!
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  #162  
Old 01-07-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

I'm glad this was resolved to your satisfaction.I didn't think a company like DW,or a guy with a reputation like John Good would let you down.

The cog in the wheel here seems to be the drum shop.In the intrest of fairness,I think we all need to know the name of the shop.The drums are not going to be sent there if I understand this properly,so there will be no retribution on their part.No one should be treated like you were, reguardless of whether you purchased a $6000 set of drums or a new pair of drum gloves.You may be surprised that others have experienced the same treatment as you did.

This forum needs to know.

Steve B
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  #163  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

That's so awesome, man! Have fun with your new kit!
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  #164  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Glad your issues were taken care of.

The fact that Mr. Good called you does not surprise me. Out of every big wig I've ever met at NAMM, John makes you feel like you are his best friend. It was a very foreign experience meeting him and talking with him. He is a genuine soul and treats everyone with kindness and true appreciation. There are a lot of dealers at this show that could care less about the little guy but John Good is not one of them.
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  #165  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: High end kit that has a lot of problems. Are any of them not worthy of complaint?

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Originally Posted by groovemaster69 View Post
I can tell you that this has happened before but I wont get into the specifics. I will never deal with DW personally. It amazes me that a company with such high standards as they claim would even give a customer such a hassle after paying such a high price for something that was definitely sub standard! I strictly deal with "SONOR" Now thats quality at its best! The Germans take pride in what they produce and I've never heard anyone complain about a German made Sonor product, yes Sonors are pricey but "You get what you pay for"
Best drums and company IMO
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  #166  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
In the intrest of fairness,I think we all need to know the name of the shop.
I agree.

Anyhow, I've followed along this whole time, imagining myself reacting exactly as you did if it happened to me. I really don't like companies ignoring customers, or being dishonest with them. It just gives me a bad feeling. I know that if a company wronged me, then owned up for their mistake (a.k.a. being honest), I would have no problem doing business with them again. But if the company acted evasively, I wouldn't feel comfortable going back there.
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  #167  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

WHEW!! DAYAMN - GOOD JOB CRAIG!

I know it hasn't been easy carrying this on your shoulders throughout the holidays. You've won a victory for all of us. It was hard to believe that DW would let things get to this point, given all the hype and their tours emphasizing QC.

I knew the length of the letter alone would impact John. He is a noble person and that was totally cool that he called you. Based on his industry reputation, I'm not too surprised he did.

Ok - so now: "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" and an "AWESOME NEW YEAR!". Go pour a good bottle of something tonight. If you don't drink, I'll pour one for you.

Oh...you've gone through a lot here, but like tamadrm suggested, it would be good for us to know the shop that dropped the ball/box. That's something they should not have accepted - and man did they give you the runaround!

WE WANT PICTURES WHEN SHE ARRIVES!

Dennis
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  #168  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

That's reallygreat Boom.

DW has great stuff, and I it's good to know that the person who dropped the ball (for everyone) is gone.
I don't own the drums (not really my sound), but I do own LOTS of their hardware, and it's great stuff.

John Good seems like a really good person. It was cool of him to call you. He always seemed like he's really into what he does in the dvd's, so this just proves that he is.

Enjoy your drums when they arrive!!
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  #169  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
The cog in the wheel here seems to be the drum shop.In the intrest of fairness,I think we all need to know the name of the shop.The drums are not going to be sent there if I understand this properly,so there will be no retribution on their part.No one should be treated like you were, reguardless of whether you purchased a $6000 set of drums or a new pair of drum gloves.You may be surprised that others have experienced the same treatment as you did.

This forum needs to know.

Steve B
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Originally Posted by Typo View Post
I agree.
But if the company acted evasively, I wouldn't feel comfortable going back there.
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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
but like tamadrm suggested, it would be good for us to know the shop that dropped the ball/box. That's something they should not have accepted - and man did they give you the runaround!
Dennis
I was debating send the shop a letter like I sent JG because at least one of the guys at the shop, either the eldest owner (I think it is father and son) or the father works for the son...well the father has been awesome to deal with. But one of their employees and the son constantly gave me the run around. Especially not calling me back for a week when I called them to ask for help because I didn't know what to do with this kit that had a myriad of problems. It is hard for me to see how that can be explained. It was like they would never have called me back. It seemed like they just hoped I'd go away.

The shop is Drum World in Castle Shannon, Pa. They advertise in the drum magazines, so trust me, you have all seen their ads. They definitely held me out to dry and stonewalled me during this process. So, buyer beware.
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  #170  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
Boom, that is great news!

Things happen, even with great brands, and I think DW is a great brand. That is the point I was trying to make early on in this thread, when people were insisting nothing could possibly be wrong with a set of drums that left their factory, that they could only have been damaged in transit or by someone who took them out of the box and banged them around.
yes, 8mile, you were saying this. I agreed the whole time. It is just a reminder that anyone or any business can and will make mistakes. As we've been saying all along, it is how that company deals with them that matters.
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  #171  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

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Originally Posted by BigDinSD View Post
WHEW!! DAYAMN - GOOD JOB CRAIG!

I know it hasn't been easy carrying this on your shoulders throughout the holidays. You've won a victory for all of us. It was hard to believe that DW would let things get to this point, given all the hype and their tours emphasizing QC.

I knew the length of the letter alone would impact John. He is a noble person and that was totally cool that he called you. Based on his industry reputation, I'm not too surprised he did.

Ok - so now: "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" and an "AWESOME NEW YEAR!". Go pour a good bottle of something tonight. If you don't drink, I'll pour one for you.

Dennis
Dennis! Thanks a ton for your support. You helped me a lot through this (he got pm'd a lot from me...of course, so did Andy, Roy, 8mile and Karl). I don't partake in the bubbly but I'll hit up a cranberry juice in celebration! :)

This forum is awesome. I posted my issues with 2 snare drums from Ludwig on, what turned out to be, an extremely brainwashed pro ludwig forum and I got basically blasted there. As though Ludwig is incapable of making mistakes. But that isn't how this forum goes. There are guys that are biased, and we've all seen the debates (which can be rather entertaining), but even with that in mind, this forum helps A LOT.

This forum RULES!

Another positive for John Good and DW. When I had issues with two ludwig supra's, I actually met Jim Catalano from Ludwig who is basically the equivalent of JG over there. At least in tenure he is. He gave me his card with contact info after he looked at the first Ludwig drum and agreed it had to go back. So, I sent him an email (he carried a blackberry type device and was very tech savy with it) to that address he gave me on his card (I didn't ask for it, he gave it to me) telling him how I got a worse 2nd supra and he never even responded to that email.
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  #172  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Things are looking up for you again Boom. Great to hear about the positive outcome. I personally know John Good and he's a person of his words and very dedicated to his company and craft. He definitely was tied up the last several months touring with his new trailer filled with delectable snare drums, lol, but now it seems that he's regained his reigns on the company. Nice going.

It still seems to me as though a few shady occurrences happened after the drums were shipped to the drum shop, but that's water under the bridge.



Dennis
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  #173  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Glad to hear the resolution. DW Drums aren't for me but customer service like that really is. It's great that the man at the top takes such pride in his work to want to call an individual customer and the dignity, honesty and grace to admit that there is/has been an issue. DW just went up in my estimation, I'm really impressed by this.

It shouldn't have happened but John Good seems like a guy that really cares. He's obviously very proud of his product (and rightly so, personal tastes aside) and understands how information spreads. Other companies could learn a lot from this.
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  #174  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Glad that things are working out but it is John Good's job to have the second in command trained to the point that he could take over operations at any time. Plus, whoever didn't know what they should do should have called John. Management 101.
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  #175  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

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Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
It still seems to me as though a few shady occurrences happened after the drums were shipped to the drum shop, but that's water under the bridge.

Dennis
On that front, JG said "I'll triple box these drums and if UPS still jacks them up I'm going to lose my mind."...ok, maybe that was paraphrased, but you get the idea. That was the only reference to what went down regarding the drums sticking out of the boxes. I think we can all agree that happened *after* they left DW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mediocrefunkybeat View Post
It's great that the man at the top takes such pride in his work to want to call an individual customer and the dignity, honesty and grace to admit that there is/has been an issue. DW just went up in my estimation, I'm really impressed by this.

It shouldn't have happened but John Good seems like a guy that really cares. He's obviously very proud of his product (and rightly so, personal tastes aside) and understands how information spreads. Other companies could learn a lot from this.
This is a great post MFB. I completely agree. And if more customers take notice of how John Good handled this, then that could spread. Andy is of the opinion (and who would disagree) that this is what a good/great company does. The thing is, so few companies, once they get to a certain size, do that. I think of DW as a pretty big company and when the face of the company calls me, I think it says what your post says here.

As I've said repeatedly, I've had dealings with another huge name in drums and you should have seen their attitude in just answering my questions. It was totally disrespectful and it would take a lot for me to forget about that experience.

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Originally Posted by resohead View Post
Glad that things are working out but it is John Good's job to have the second in command trained to the point that he could take over operations at any time. Plus, whoever didn't know what they should do should have called John. Management 101.
I certainly don't fully know what happened. It could have gone "Guy is trained properly, but isn't management material." I mean, haven't most of us been around people that make you wonder "How did they get this position?".

JG actually said something like this..."When I got back from the tour, I'm looking around and my people looked shell shocked."

At the same time, what you said is obviously true. But if he was fired as JG says, then something tells me this might not have just been incompetence or poor training.

I'm not outright discounting what you written here though, so please don't take it that way. I guess this is how I see it. Some things were not up to JG's standard while he was gone. I got a kit made from that period of time. He comes home, doesn't like what he sees, and maybe a head rolls for it. Bottom line is, he cared enough to call me and give me an explanation that included responsibility on their end. That was huge for me.

If you reread my early posts on this, you'll see that I'm trying to see what part of this is on me. Am I being too overly sensitive to these issues? I always respect people that, in a disagreement or during an issue, try to find what part they played in it. And I didn't feel that DW was doing that until I spoke to John. Remember, he hasn't seen my drums. I could be mentally ill (not making fun of that kind of stuff) and none of these problems could be real.

But either the 14 that they got back was as I said, and lent me credibility, or JG realized there were things not going right and my kit was at least made during that time and therefore, that was enough reason to believe me.

As I've said at least 10 times in this thread, it is how a company deals with a customer complaint that really speaks to how that company is run. JG, in one phone call, has made me feel considerably better about DW. It is a shame that not all company leaders would take this time (but I know they aren't the only one Andy!).
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  #176  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Glad to hear that DW backs up their product and this may influence many of us in our perception of DW. I have two other incidents that come to mind with similar results.

The first one was also a part that was damaged in shipping from Yamaha. I got nowhere with the place I purchased it from so tried to go to Yamaha itself. In one call I was steered to I think "Tony" who asked me a few questions, took my name, address, etc., and within a few days, Fedex showed up with a replacement.

The second was being well over 100 miles from any drum shop, I ordered a bunch of drum stuff from Musician's Friend. Thinking ahead I also decided to get a set of replacement heads for one of my kits, so I bought what was called a "Fusion Pack" from Evans. I always exclusively used Remo and thought highly of their products(still do), but thought I would check out the G2's to see how they sounded. I got them and never opened the pack for about 2-3 months never thinking to check them for problems. When I did I was surprised to find them all scuffed up from being moved around a lot. They were all together in a see through plastic package and the heads could move back and forth on each other. They were visible through the packaging but I didn't notice any problems. When I put them on they looked terrible. I called Musician's Friend and was floored with the response that since it was over 45 days I could go pound sand. How many of us drummers have gotten new heads, didn't put them on right away, and never opened the packages to check for long periods of time? They acted as if I was trying to rip them off. Boy was I mad and still am! I have literally spent thousands of dollars on stuff from Musician's Friend over the years and they could care less. They have not gotten a dime from me in over 2 years and it will be a cold day if I ever go back. I now save up and when near the closest local shop, make purchases. I would rather pay a little extra to be treated like a customer anyway.

After stewing over my heads from Evans for a few more months I called Evans and told them what happened. What a response! "Should not have happened, we will send out a replacement set". I asked them if I should send back the damaged heads? They said "No, we trust you". The feelings I had for Evans changed in an instant and I have already purchased more products from them as a result though I still love Remo too.
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  #177  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

I don't know John Good, I've never met him, but just looking through his videos, & knowing what I know about their products, it's clear that he has a passion for the core values of his business, & he's a hands on guy. It's pretty obvious he's the driving force in the business too. Whether you like DW's drums or not, the inescapable fact is that DW is a supremely successful company, & that's not by default, or just concentrating on marketing & the usual corporate machine stuff. When there's a man of passion heading a company, things change. The company ethos is vibrant & it raises above it's competition. You don't need to look far in the business world to find other examples (Virgin, Apple, etc).

Of course, DW drums are not for me. Even before my hookup with Dean, they weren't for me, but if you like what DW produce, then I think there's little danger in making a choice to go with them.

Ok, on this occasion, DW screwed up. John's admitted that, & that's as much as he needs to explain. His internal challenges are non of our concern. It's how it's put right that matters. It's also clear that the retailer caused the bulk of the frustration that compounded an already disappointing situation, & this is where I twist this to my dilemma. If you make good stuff, especially something that doesn't sell on the back of today's lowest price, finding quality retail representation is a real grind. As a manufacturer, you want to get your product out there, but you expect that retailer to represent your product in the same way you'd represent it yourself. They are, by association, an extension of you. It's right that you expect those high standards, after all, it's quite common for the retailer to make much more on the product than the manufacturer. That retail step makes a bunch of difference to the price your customer pays, so your customer expects to receive local value above & beyond what the manufacturer can offer as a result of paying that premium. There's a few good retailers out there, but regrettably, they're in the minority, & diminishing. It really doesn't surprise me that the smaller higher end manufacturers are increasingly turning away from retail.

Either way, I hope John takes issue with the retailer in this instance. I know, if it was my company, I certainly would.
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  #178  
Old 01-08-2012, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

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Originally Posted by vtec View Post
The first one was also a part that was damaged in shipping from Yamaha. I got nowhere with the place I purchased it from so tried to go to Yamaha itself. In one call I was steered to I think "Tony" who asked me a few questions, took my name, address, etc., and within a few days, Fedex showed up with a replacement.


After stewing over my heads from Evans for a few more months I called Evans and told them what happened. What a response! "Should not have happened, we will send out a replacement set". I asked them if I should send back the damaged heads? They said "No, we trust you". The feelings I had for Evans changed in an instant and I have already purchased more products from them as a result though I still love Remo too.
Thanks for sharing your stories, Vtec. It is refreshing to hear them. And, yes, I've often bought heads and not used them...I actually have two sets of extra heads right now, including bass drum heads which might not see the light of day for quite some time. They are evans, and your story reassures me not to worry.

[quote=keep it simple;939555
Either way, I hope John takes issue with the retailer in this instance. I know, if it was my company, I certainly would.[/QUOTE]

The shop in question was actually ranked something like one of the top 25 shops in the world during some NAMM event. So it goes to show how reliable that stuff is.

Just to also add, when JG said something about when I get the drums:
I replied "That's just it, I don't want to deal with that shop again."
"Then we'll ship the drums directly to you."
"I didn't know that was possible."
"Anything is possible to make you happy."

Awesome interchange :)
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  #179  
Old 01-09-2012, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

Now that's an artist relations I'd love to have :)
With Tama you don't even get an email back. I don't dare to mention anything else :/
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  #180  
Old 04-20-2012, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: High End kit with problems...***Update - John Good, Mr. DW, called me today"

I just wanted to update this thread in case anyone came across this down the line. I received my new, replacement DW's yesterday. They can be seen in this thread:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=89979

Thanks to everyone for their help throughout these threads.
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