DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-24-2013, 12:56 AM
Jeffrey99 Jeffrey99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 31
Default Help with CAD pro drum mics

Hello guys. About 4 months ago I bought a set of CAD pro 7 piece mics. I've just recently moved into a house that I can set my acoustics up and test them out. This past week I also bought some of the Musician Gear cables from Musician Friend along with two MIC stands for the overheads.

My PA\mixer is a Harbinger HA60. Just a small amp I had with my electronics for practice. I've never actually used any of the MIC inputs, just the instrument in. Today I go to test them out and I'm getting no sound from any of the mics. Currently using snare, bass & the 2 overheads. Then using the record out RCA jacks of the PA to the MIC in of the laptop. At first thought it was something to do with the onboard so unhooked everything from laptop and just tried PA. When I crank it up, i get no sound from any MIC.

I know nothing about MIC, mixers and PA's. So figured I'd ask here and try and get some help. Are there special MIC cables for drums and different for vocals? Is there a on/off switch in missing? Can anybody give me a place to start? Lol

Thanks in advance,
Jeffrey
__________________
My Kits: Roland TD-4KX & Pearl Sessions Custom (Marine Blue Fade) with Sabian Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-24-2013, 01:05 AM
Slippy Slippy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Jose Ca,
Posts: 98
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

do you get any sound when you use the headphones? Do the mic's require a phantom power supply?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:12 AM
Jeffrey99 Jeffrey99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 31
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
do you get any sound when you use the headphones? Do the mic's require a phantom power supply?
There isn't a headphone out. Just the RCA record out. And I have no clue what a phantom power supply is. Lol I'm a complete new when it comes to all this.
__________________
My Kits: Roland TD-4KX & Pearl Sessions Custom (Marine Blue Fade) with Sabian Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:49 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

CAD Pro is an oxymoron, there's nothing pro about the CAD drum mic package.

That said, the kick mic should be a conventional dynamic and work with conventional mic inputs. The overheads may be condensor mics which will need phantom power. The mixer should have a switch somewhere labeled phantom power or some sort of +24V, +48V or some such. If there isn't, you're stuck with only using dynamic mics.

Try hooking up your electronics to the PA head and test though the speakers so you know all that is working normally. Then try to get the record outputs and the computer inputs working. Working with known signals simplifies things.

Once that works, you should be able to hook up the mics and mix them into the computer.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-24-2013, 04:58 AM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey99 View Post
There isn't a headphone out. Just the RCA record out. And I have no clue what a phantom power supply is. Lol I'm a complete new when it comes to all this.
Your overheads are condensers, which require phantom power. You're going to need to buy a proper mixer that has a USB or Firewire out to use on your computer, that has phantom inputs. If you want to go on the affordable end, Behringer makes some decent USB mixers that feature phantom powered inputs. Phantom powered mics, require additional power to make them work, as opposed to passive mics like cardiods that don't. Summing the mics to a stereo RCA jack to a 1/8" mic jack in a laptop is going to give you some seriously crappy results even IF you got sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
CAD Pro is an oxymoron, there's nothing pro about the CAD drum mic package.
Obviously the guy is just starting out and is on a budget. You don't need to be a smart ass and berate his mic choice because you can afford better equipment. CAD mics are decent enough to get live sounds that work, if you have good drums and a sound engineer who knows their stuff. Let's try to have a little more sensitivity for those on a budget shall we?

BTW, the CAD ribbon mics such as the Trion 7000 and the 8000 tube condenser are excellent mics for the price. The 7000 ribbon is a go-to guitar amp mic used by LOTS of big-name pros like Joe Satriani.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:05 AM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,983
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Looking at your system, here's what I would try: hook your head to your PA speakers. Don't worry about the computer for now.
Try just one mic, probably kick, in the mic input of channel 1. Max out the volume knob on channel 1, then max out the Master Volume knob.

If you don't get sound, something's wrong - ha ha.

From there, I'd try to find another source that you can plug into your aux inputs - something like a cd player, tape deck or your computer. With the volume knobs maxed again, if you don't get sound, your unit is probably broken.

Basically, I'm saying to find out if the HA60 works first. Then start looking at other things. And no, there aren't different cables for drum and vocal mics - they both use mic cables.
Not familiar with the mics, but I have seen some mics that have an on/off switch. Usually switches on mics are for low cut or pads though.

First things first. Check your PA/speaker functioning.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:19 AM
Mikecore's Avatar
Mikecore Mikecore is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gladville McHappyland
Posts: 638
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

I read the owner's manual for your PA, so I know you do not have phantom power for your mics (no biggie; most PAs of this sort don't use phantom power as the average user is plugging an SM58 or something very much like it into the channel). This means your "pencil" overheads, which should be condensers, will not work with the PA. A half decent mic preamp would have phantom power for each input....but it would also cost about as much as your whole system, so let's stick with your dynamic mics.

Your HA60 can only take one type of input per channel, so make sure nothing is plugged into your line inputs when you have the mics plugged in.

Make sure nothing is plugged into the insert jack on the rear of the unit, unless it is actually an inserted effects unit. This might be cutting off your output signal, which I'm guessing is just a lower-level copy of your speaker outs (and might explain why nothing is coming out of either output pair).

Did you put your speaker outs into the computer's inputs? If so, a high-level signal like that could fry the soundcard, so NEVER, EVER DO THAT.

I don't mean to yell, but that one's pretty important.

If you are recording into a computer, you must have software that accommodates this. Are all of the input/output settings correctly adjusted there?

Based on what you've said, and what I know about your gear, that's about all I can think of in addition to what others have said.
__________________
My Kit
My Other Kit
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:26 AM
Mikecore's Avatar
Mikecore Mikecore is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gladville McHappyland
Posts: 638
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Ballard View Post
Summing the mics to a stereo RCA jack to a 1/8" mic jack in a laptop is going to give you some seriously crappy results even IF you got sound.
One of my favorite albums was allegedly recorded in such a manner ("How to Sell the Whole F#@!ing Universe to Everybody, Once and For All", Sir Millard Mulch, 2005). Not sure how much these cheap methods were used in the final product, but he maintains that all of the audio made it into his computer via the 1/8" stereo jack on the rear. Cubase and Atari did the rest.
__________________
My Kit
My Other Kit
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:14 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,884
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Your HA60 is a pretty simple, easy-to-use four channel powered mixer. Good advice so far - unplug your computer and just see if you can get signal through the mixer to the speakers and make sure that's working correctly. Just plug in a mic with the XLR cable into one of the channels, bring up your input gain and see if you get anything. If you are, then the system works. It is correct to assume that you cannot run both the LINE INPUT and the XLR on one channel at the same time, so pick one or the other. I have this feeling you were trying to plug in all of your mics to whatever inputs you have - you can only use FOUR of your dynamic mics.

It's ok. We all gotta start somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:30 AM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
One of my favorite albums was allegedly recorded in such a manner ("How to Sell the Whole F#@!ing Universe to Everybody, Once and For All", Sir Millard Mulch, 2005). Not sure how much these cheap methods were used in the final product, but he maintains that all of the audio made it into his computer via the 1/8" stereo jack on the rear. Cubase and Atari did the rest.
Well, that's interesting. Heck, I suppose if you REALLY want to go ultra-lo fi, you could just use the built in mic in your laptop and bang away and ditch the mics all together! ;)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:44 AM
Mikecore's Avatar
Mikecore Mikecore is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Gladville McHappyland
Posts: 638
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Well, the important bits were done with MIDI tracks driving sound modules that went through a mini-mixer before hitting the soundcard, so they never had any "air" in the signal. It was mostly vocals and some sound effects that needed a mic.

That said, the OP has the makings of a decent starter rig if everything is operational. Sometimes cheap gear can color the sound in enjoyable ways provided that the well-known annoyances are kept out of the mix (buzzing, distortion, etc...).
__________________
My Kit
My Other Kit
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:06 PM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Well, the important bits were done with MIDI tracks driving sound modules that went through a mini-mixer before hitting the soundcard, so they never had any "air" in the signal. It was mostly vocals and some sound effects that needed a mic.

That said, the OP has the makings of a decent starter rig if everything is operational. Sometimes cheap gear can color the sound in enjoyable ways provided that the well-known annoyances are kept out of the mix (buzzing, distortion, etc...).
As I said, he might be better off, saving up for a real USB-mixer. Harbingers are good PA systems but they really aren't designed for recording-to-PC purposes. For the money, Behringer's Xenyx line mixers have surprisingly quiet and dynamic preamp modules and are very affordable. The OP didn't mention what software he used for recording but the mixers come with Tracktion4, which is an excellent DAW if you don't have the money for Pro Tools are whatever top-end software. The 1204USB model, BTW, is $149.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Jeffrey99 Jeffrey99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 31
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Ok thanks guys for all the tips. I'll start by hooking up electronic drums and test each input. I know the PA is producing sound fine, as I hooked up my phone to the aux in ports using same RCA to 3.5mm headphone jack cable. And was able to play music fine through it.

Should have known it wouldn't be as simple as I thought it would be. Lol

As to post regarding software I was using to record, was gonna start with Audacity and once I get familiar with all the recording aspects try and upgrade to a true mixer and recording software. Guess upgrading mixer is gonna come sooner then I thought. Wonder if I can buy it without telling the wife. Haha
__________________
My Kits: Roland TD-4KX & Pearl Sessions Custom (Marine Blue Fade) with Sabian Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-25-2013, 03:51 AM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,983
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey99 View Post

Ok thanks guys for all the tips. I'll start by hooking up electronic drums and test each input...

Only problem with that, is that will only tell you about the 1/4" line level inputs, not the mic inputs. (Assuming your electronic stuff has the typical 1/4" connectors).
I took a quick peek at the manual, and the only thing I noticed on the block diagram is to make sure you also have the EQ turned up, as well as the channel and master volumes. The signal passes through the channel volume, then through the eq, so if the eq is turned down, you won't hear anything.

You probably have it turned up already - just thought I would mention it.

.

Last edited by wildbill; 08-25-2013 at 04:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:10 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Ballard View Post
Obviously the guy is just starting out and is on a budget. You don't need to be a smart ass and berate his mic choice because you can afford better equipment. CAD mics are decent enough to get live sounds that work, if you have good drums and a sound engineer who knows their stuff. Let's try to have a little more sensitivity for those on a budget shall we?

BTW, the CAD ribbon mics such as the Trion 7000 and the 8000 tube condenser are excellent mics for the price. The 7000 ribbon is a go-to guitar amp mic used by LOTS of big-name pros like Joe Satriani.
Not being a smart ass, just promoting value. The low end CAD drum mic packages are horrible sounding. Made that mistake years ago, took them back to GC after one gig. You'd get a better recording with a single 57 overhead. For that matter, a single 57 overhead and an AT kick mic in a decent space will sound as good as most fancy demos with a bit of placement practice.

As you say, not all CAD stuff is bad. The M179 is a good budget recording LD and the GL1200s are decent SDCs that pick up toms with more body better than many higher end overheads. And their higher end mics are truly high end.

But the low end drum packs are a waste of money. People buy them thinking they will have enough mics to to a pro job of micing every drum when they'd be much better off buying a couple of good mics and placing them well. And that investment in a couple decent 57s or something can be added to as funds become available. The entry level package can't be given away. A bit of research on the recording and live sound forums will help separate the wheat from the chaff.

There is a saying on the ProSoundWeb that they tell all the folks starting out. Buy once, cry once. Much the same here when someone asks about some ZBT prepack with a bunch of round things in it. Most experienced folks here will suggest just buying a smaller number of used good cymbals.

As far as mixers go, the market for used small analog mixers has fallen though the basement. If you have the space, I've seen used Tangent and Studiomaster mixers for a couple hundred. I've got a 24 channel Allen & Heath GL in the garage from when I used to do live sound that I'd be lucky to get $350 for. Orders of magnitude better preamps and eq than some Behringer toy. He can work out the gain structure from that to his laptop soundcard easily enough. And then later when he buys some sort of simple USB recording interface, he'll get better sound. Then a multichannel interface and he can use the inserts on the mixer to multitrack. Well done, you can get a very good recording.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-26-2013, 02:02 PM
Jeffrey99 Jeffrey99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 31
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

OK thanks for all the replies guys. Got all 4 drum mics working and producing sound last night. Sounds decent enough coming through PA. Sounds like crap once it hit's laptop. LOL Guessing it's more the PA then the mics. As no matter how I mess with the volume, the mics always seem to be way too hot once they hit laptop and and the recording gets distorted. And of course with no overheads, the cymbals initial hit is there but there is no sustain.

Overall paid $100 for the CAD mics about six months ago when they were the Musician Friend SDOTD. The main complaint was the bass drum mic. For $100 I don't think you can go wrong.

Think instead of wasting money of trying to find something to produce phantom power for the overheads, I've decided to either buy a Behringer or Mackie mixer. Seems like I can find either for under $150 used.

Honestly if I get to the point where I need to mic drums for gigs then of course I'll upgrade. Right now just trying to record for drum covers and to find a band members.
__________________
My Kits: Roland TD-4KX & Pearl Sessions Custom (Marine Blue Fade) with Sabian Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-26-2013, 02:48 PM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,983
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey99 View Post

OK thanks for all the replies guys. Got all 4 drum mics working and producing sound last night. Sounds decent enough coming through PA. Sounds like crap once it hit's laptop. LOL Guessing it's more the PA then the mics...

I figured you'd probably get them to work. Can you say what you changed to be able to hear them through the PA?

About the recording part - the sound cards built into laptops are usually pretty low quality.
An external sound card might be a better next step than a mixer at this point. But if you play around with it some more, you probably can get some results - or at least learn a few things.

You'll also have to get your levels set right. It'll be a combination of setting your PA's outs hot enough to get a strong signal without distorting, and then setting your recording levels.
In the Audacity program you're using, there's an icon of a mic next to a slider. While hitting a drum, adjust the slider so that the level meters give you a good signal without hitting the '0' level.
Let us know how it's going - I'm sure others would like to hear about it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-26-2013, 04:17 PM
Jeffrey99 Jeffrey99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 31
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I figured you'd probably get them to work. Can you say what you changed to be able to hear them through the PA?

About the recording part - the sound cards built into laptops are usually pretty low quality.
An external sound card might be a better next step than a mixer at this point. But if you play around with it some more, you probably can get some results - or at least learn a few things.

You'll also have to get your levels set right. It'll be a combination of setting your PA's outs hot enough to get a strong signal without distorting, and then setting your recording levels.
In the Audacity program you're using, there's an icon of a mic next to a slider. While hitting a drum, adjust the slider so that the level meters give you a good signal without hitting the '0' level.
Let us know how it's going - I'm sure others would like to hear about it.
The first time I was concentrating on the overheads. Once I realized those won't work with what I have right now. I started with the bass drum and worked around. Removed the RCA out cables and focused on just getting sound out of the PA.
__________________
My Kits: Roland TD-4KX & Pearl Sessions Custom (Marine Blue Fade) with Sabian Cymbals
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:09 PM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,983
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

Yep - the overheads are gonna' be a 'no-go', if they require phantom power, and you don't have it.

You still can work a bit with what you have. Start getting into it, and you'll find all kinds of stuff you might need or want - it adds up fast. LOL
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-29-2013, 07:38 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 2,049
Default Re: Help with CAD pro drum mics

I bought some cad pro 7 mics a while back...

I was able to get great sounds out of them..

step one.. tune your drums so they sound great.

step two... position them properly

step 3. learn how to eq/compress/mix/edit properly

Ive seen many people and gear snobs go out and buy a ton of expensive gear and get crap recordings. and I have seen the exact opposite. .

. if you start with a good sound in a good room, a bit of knowledge and your set.

For a beginner learning its great to have a low budget set because it forces you to learn different techniques and get the sound you want.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com