Close Mics or overheads?

jim_gregory

Senior Member
This is the scenario. I use a powered mixer for the entire band. Enough of everything and we always sound better with it then the house sytems. I dont know why and dont care but we use it a lot and thats that. It's mine and I aint upgrading. I set it up and run it with someone out front for a sound check. I have enough free inputs for a kick mic, and overhead and a vocal mic. Plus four other for the other guys.
The QUESTION is, how do I get more toms and less cymbals with an overhead? My toms always get lost in the mix. I have close mics and a separate mixer I can do a feed into the main if I have to but I have enough to do already! My beta 58A works great for vocals but does pick up snare and hats. I use an SM58 right now as an overhead. I have cheap pencil condensors but they are awefull. I think the SM58 is better. I do have a decent condensor comming but still small diaphram and I think will get highs well but not toms.
I REALLY want to get by with one overhead and one kick mic. Is this possible?
 
Only time I feel as though I've got a decent blend of toms and cymbals on a one mic recording is when the mic has been out front... not sure this would be ideal for live.

Dare I suggest adjusting your playing? I'd rather close mic and sub-mix, myself.
 
Put the 58 down between your two rack toms, pointed towards you. Or, if you just use 1 rack tom, put it between your rack and floor toms (it will accent your ride).

Either that, or place a condenser in front of your kit from above, capturing your cymbals, but not focused on them.

Or, just suck it up and close mic everything. You'll soon find out what works best for you...
 
I agree with putting your 58 down closer to your toms, and just let your vocal mic pick up the rest. Hell, lots of times all I did was stick a 58 in the kick and use another 58 for vocals and that picked up everything just fine, when the mic was always in the singing position. So it can be done with 2 mics!
 
Put the 58 down between your two rack toms, pointed towards you. Or, if you just use 1 rack tom, put it between your rack and floor toms (it will accent your ride).

Either that, or place a condenser in front of your kit from above, capturing your cymbals, but not focused on them.

Or, just suck it up and close mic everything. You'll soon find out what works best for you...

If you can make it out, on one rack post I have the vocal mic boom mounted. Thats the left side as I am seated. On the right rack post I stuck the overhead boom, but the mic is just above the top of the frame and not visable. My crashes are kinda low and my splash sits right between the toms. I guess I could find another home for the spash and try the low 58.
Biggest problem likely is I am a soft hitter playing 7AN sticks. Guess that isnt helping.

2bootsmca2.jpg
 
I think the answer is there is no way with a single overhead you can get all of your toms without the cymbals being overly predominant. I use two overheads, kick and snare because I only have four channels to play with. This lets me "aim" the overheads a bit to maximize the toms while minimizing the cymbals.
 
If you can make it out, on one rack post I have the vocal mic boom mounted. Thats the left side as I am seated. On the right rack post I stuck the overhead boom, but the mic is just above the top of the frame and not visable. My crashes are kinda low and my splash sits right between the toms. I guess I could find another home for the spash and try the low 58.
Biggest problem likely is I am a soft hitter playing 7AN sticks. Guess that isnt helping.

Nah, it's not a problem that you're a "soft hitter"...only the opposite is usually true! :D

That's cool that you can mount your mic stands off of your rack like that. Kudos! Perhaps, if you decide to close-mic everything, you could mount your close mics to your rack as well, bundle the cables, and attach your mixer to the rack, too! THAT would be efficient!

I'm usually fine when playing with one overhead and one kick mic. Do you "balance" yourself while playing kit? I mean, when you play, do you make sure that your cymbals aren't too loud when compared to your tom playing, etc.? That's key with making the single overhead mic work. You usually have to play your snare and cymbals quieter and toms and bass drum louder...
 
Perhaps, if you decide to close-mic everything, you could mount your close mics to your rack as well, bundle the cables, and attach your mixer to the rack, too! THAT would be efficient!
I do that Caddy. I run a little multicore around the rack to a sub mix or stage box. Quick & neat. Only for medium size gigs though. Smaller gigs I'm purely acoustic, big gigs, it's someone elses problem.
 
Nah, it's not a problem that you're a "soft hitter"...only the opposite is usually true! :D

That's cool that you can mount your mic stands off of your rack like that. Kudos! Perhaps, if you decide to close-mic everything, you could mount your close mics to your rack as well, bundle the cables, and attach your mixer to the rack, too! THAT would be efficient!

Yes I had this in mind when I went to the one piece rack. I also thought of doing the mic bundle for the rack but the mics mount on the rims. Not the end of the world but more stuff to do. I think I will just wait for the new EV PL37 (saw Bo seemed to like them) and test placement and EQing. Any way I slice it though I will have to balance my hits better and will always loose that some of that beautifull noise that comes out of those toms.
The small rack gets collapsed some at teardown and slides right behing my durango's front seats. Everything stays on it so it's a pretty easy setup.
 
Tough problem Jim.

If you were going to close mic, perhaps internal mic mounts, ala the the May Micing System, would be less set up time.

If you could get your overhead between the racks like Caddy said...but the floor tom might be a little lower in the mix...or raise your toms above your cymbals (joking)

Or go E kit (really joking)

Or put your cymbals way high with the overhead below the cymbals pointed at toms

(Grabbing for straws)

BTW I really love the finish on those Pearls...

I use one overhead, and I "mix" it by laying lighter on the cymbals and heavier on the toms to the degree where I get a balanced sound, as judged by me whilst playing.

The way I see it is the overhead hears what my ears do, basically speaking.

Perhaps EQing the overhead to maximize the lower frequencies and cut the high frequencies down a bit couldn't hurt
 
The long story short is that a closer an overhead is to the kit, the more it picks up everything instead of just cymbals. Messing with the angle plays with that some too. I think part of the problem is using a dynamic mic. Dynamics like 57's and 58's have that proximity effect (more low end when the source is very close to the mic), so the inverse is true as well. With your overhead being up and away from the kit, it's really only picking up some of the attack off the head.

In other words, try moving to a condenser mic and maybe moving it closer to the center of your kit.
 
I used to play an Ekit Larry. Never had this issue!
I placed the overhead crap condenser closer to my right shoulder, EQ'd out a little highs and it sounds much better. Also thump the tubs with a bit more authority.
I was using headphones, with the volume fairly loud, after dinner. You don't want to fart between tunes with the condenser at your shoulder I can say without question!
 
Well I got the EV PL37 and it works great. Positioned about 30 inches over the floor tom pointed between the rack toms. With the highs rolled off some it sounds fine. Heck of a nice mic for 99 bucks. A little wave effect off the cymbals but not so bad.
 
if you takin about recording,i have success with a condencer mike about 3 to 4 feet in frontof the kit..,level with the top of the kick drum,angled twards the snare,or off to the side a bit in line with the snare...a good even sound and a little snappier than overheads because its not washed out with cymbal overtones
 
Positioning is only going to help that much. The best solution is to change the way you play the kit and tune the toms. Play the cymbals as softly as you can while creating the sounds you need, and play the toms as loudly as you can. Tune the toms high and resonant so that they'll project over the cymbals.
 
Perhaps just loosing the overhead mic may be an option? From past experience I've found on smaller stages theres no need for overheads as like you say, you get loads of cymbals coming through the vocal mic. As I think someone said above, stereo overheads will help a lot!
 
I tend to overkill everything but when it comes to micing set it depends on room.real small room if any just bass and 2 overheads.. regular clubs I use 2 overheads, bass and snare(not that it needs it but for a little effects) ..outside or big venues I mic every drum, 3 overheads and mic hats.. I have i believe its 11 or 12 channels if needed on board.
 
I have two different sets of overhead mics. A matched set of Oktavias from the Sound Lab (not the rejects they sell at GC) and a set of CAD small condensors. The Oktavias seem to pick up more cymbals and when recording I need to mic the toms or use drastic eq. The CADs give a more full bodied sound to the toms, albiet with less sizzle to the cymbals.

Live, I often put an SM or Beta 57 overhead. Kind of low and right over the snare. This tends to get a good balance of the drums without getting too much cymbals. The other thing to remember is that frontline vocal mics in front of the kit will pick up cymbals like crazy (solo one some time and check it out). In situations where there are several mics in front of the kit, a snare mic may be all that you need.

Another old school recording technique is to have a mic just over the floor tom pointed level across at the snare. Coupled with one kind of overhead above the hats on the other side, this can give a pretty balanced kit sound. This gives precedence to the hats over the ride as many old pop songs did. And crashes come through everything anyway.
 
Back
Top