Constant frustration/disappointment with music

Drumsarefun

Drumsarefun

Member
Warning- this is a bit of venting, but I'm also looking for advice.

Im a uni student at the moment in my second year studying a degree unrelated to drums and music. I made a post about this here before. I love drumming more than anything else, and considered dropping out of uni to pursue it.

Nevertheless here I am at uni, and the main thing that gave me motivation to return was the prospect of joining
various bands, including the uni big band and concert band (something outside my comfort zone).

So I'm trying to arrange some jams with people who I have found at the uni. But I'm just not having any luck


I was excited I found this great RNB singer, really looked forward to meeting. Turns out he has a drummer already now.

I had the same thing last year, I was unable to arrange a single gig for my main band as we couldn't find a singer that would commit.

The jazz big band and concert band already have a drummer, who is more proficient at reading than me.

Even just trying to arrange one rehearsal with my main band is almost impossible, trying to get everyone to actually tell me when they can jam. I feel like I'm constantly nagging people.

Then again, if I did nothing, I'd have even less chance of playing.


I read stories of some of my fav bands. They met at uni, maybe even before when they were 17 or so. Or other drummers like thomas lang and benny greb who were successful early.

I just don't understand what am i doing wrong?!?!? I have such little experience playing gigs even though im ALWAYS up for them. I spent the whole of sixth form nagging my friends to rehearse and get gigs with no luck. And now the story repeats itself at uni.

It's so frustrating because I feel I'm actually being proactive with advertising for people etc but still having no luck. I seem to be a gig repellent my whole drumming life.

What can i do? I'm feeling very disillusioned with uni, and am questioning why Im here
 
Hi Buddy,

To give you a bi of context, I'm a 30 year old working drummer here in the UK, and I can tell you I've had the same feelings you're having now, and the same feelings of frustration.

To answer your main question "what am I doing wrong?", the answer is simple. You're spending too much time comparing yourself to others.

The people you are talking about, Benny Greb, Thomas Lang et al, are outliers in every sense of the word. Born to musical families, exposed to music extremely early, opportunities for high quality music lessons in musical parts of the world. They are not normal routes into the industry, and not representative of the vast majority of people in the industry.

Take Buddy Rich, or perhaps a guitar equivalent Guthrie Govan. They were taking lessons from aged 2 or something ridiculous, pushed on stage as a toddler, and never stopped. Is it any wonder they become big names in the industry?

Everybody has their own path. I'm 30 years old, married, with a mortgage, and I'm finding my way. I'm not a big name in the industry, but I nevertheless play the drums for a living. Am I frustrated that I can't play with Chick Corea at 25, or join Zappa at 22? Yes! Am I frustrated at the lack of musical artists that want a live or recording drummer for their original projects? Of course. But would I trade those things for my family, my house, and my overall quality of life? Hell no.

Drumming is what I do. It doesn't have to be my entire life. I keep striving for my goals and ambitions, but I also have learned some perspective.

Regarding ability, I was rubbish at 20. I now consider myself to be at a high professional level. The vast majority of my improvement came in the past six years or so. At 20, I couldn't play jazz or read. These days, I do both regularly on a pro basis. Give it time, keep working hard, and be patient.

Most importantly, stop comparing yourself to the few examples of people who encountered success extremely early.
 
That's the one real problem with playing drums, it's super competitive. Most places you go there is a shortage of bass players, so there's no problem for them to find work, and most groups don't have an issue with using multiple guitarists, but drummers are constantly battling for gigs. Try making friends with some of the drummers around the area, almost half of my gigs I've ever gotten have been from being recommended by other drummers I'm friends with. Hope this helps!
 
Mighty_Joker said:
Hi Buddy,

To give you a bi of context, I'm a 30 year old working drummer here in the UK, and I can tell you I've had the same feelings you're having now, and the same feelings of frustration.

To answer your main question "what am I doing wrong?", the answer is simple. You're spending too much time comparing yourself to others.

The people you are talking about, Benny Greb, Thomas Lang et al, are outliers in every sense of the word. Born to musical families, exposed to music extremely early, opportunities for high quality music lessons in musical parts of the world. They are not normal routes into the industry, and not representative of the vast majority of people in the industry.

Take Buddy Rich, or perhaps a guitar equivalent Guthrie Govan. They were taking lessons from aged 2 or something ridiculous, pushed on stage as a toddler, and never stopped. Is it any wonder they become big names in the industry?

Everybody has their own path. I'm 30 years old, married, with a mortgage, and I'm finding my way. I'm not a big name in the industry, but I nevertheless play the drums for a living. Am I frustrated that I can't play with Chick Corea at 25, or join Zappa at 22? Yes! Am I frustrated at the lack of musical artists that want a live or recording drummer for their original projects? Of course. But would I trade those things for my family, my house, and my overall quality of life? Hell no.

Drumming is what I do. It doesn't have to be my entire life. I keep striving for my goals and ambitions, but I also have learned some perspective.

Regarding ability, I was rubbish at 20. I now consider myself to be at a high professional level. The vast majority of my improvement came in the past six years or so. At 20, I couldn't play jazz or read. These days, I do both regularly on a pro basis. Give it time, keep working hard, and be patient.

Most importantly, stop comparing yourself to the few examples of people who encountered success extremely early.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot. What did you do to improve so much after the age of 20? Did you just start focused and dedicated practice at that age?

Can I also ask if you studied drums/music at college or something? I'm hoping to make a career out of drumming, it's nice to hear people that are. Although I worry I'm at a disadvantage because of not studying drums at a prestigious college.

I suppose my issue is, HOW do I get into it? Where did it start for you, that has now led to you playing drums for a living? Where do I begin?

Cheers
 
williamsbclontz said:
That's the one real problem with playing drums, it's super competitive. Most places you go there is a shortage of bass players, so there's no problem for them to find work, and most groups don't have an issue with using multiple guitarists, but drummers are constantly battling for gigs. Try making friends with some of the drummers around the area, almost half of my gigs I've ever gotten have been from being recommended by other drummers I'm friends with. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

One thing to remember is bands don't want a drummer that can play endless drum solos (like all the youtube drummers you see)

They want a drummer to play "Songs"........ The only people that get gigs from Drum solos are Drum clinicians or "youtube heroes".

Playing in time
Playing what's appropriate, especially accompanying a vocalist.
Work on your singing skills, for backing vocals (That's a huge benefit in getting gigs, one less person to hire)
Being easy to live/work with (No egos)

The right musicians will be seeking you out soon enough.

Good luck
Mick
 
williamsbclontz said:
Try making friends with some of the drummers around the area, almost half of my gigs I've ever gotten have been from being recommended by other drummers I'm friends with. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

This might also come in handy if the other drummers need a fill in for whatever reason. This is where being genuinely interested in the music they are playing comes in handy.

Are there any open jam sessions in the area? They are usually pretty good for meeting people and also gives an opportunity to demonstrate your ability (and I'm not talking about showing off, but rather being able to work with the others on stage).
Do you watch many local gigs? Obviously there are the musos there, but also venue owners, sound techs, etc might have a good idea of the scene and if anyone is looking for a drummer.
 
andtfoot said:
This might also come in handy if the other drummers need a fill in for whatever reason. This is where being genuinely interested in the music they are playing comes in handy.

Are there any open jam sessions in the area? They are usually pretty good for meeting people and also gives an opportunity to demonstrate your ability (and I'm not talking about showing off, but rather being able to work with the others on stage).
Do you watch many local gigs? Obviously there are the musos there, but also venue owners, sound techs, etc might have a good idea of the scene and if anyone is looking for a drummer.
Click to expand...

No i don't go to any local gigs.

I just can't shake the feeling that I want to go and study jazz drums at Guildhall or something. Although I know I probably wouldn't be good enough, looking at the audition process...
 
Drumsarefun said:
No i don't go to any local gigs.

QUOTE]

How are you going to find musicians if you don't go where musicians are?
How are they going to meet you otherwise?

Facebook etc. is all well and good but up-close in person is the only true judge of anyone's personality (rather than their online profile)

Best of luck
Mick
Click to expand...
 
Drumsarefun said:
No i don't go to any local gigs.
Click to expand...

First, relax.

Second, if you want to know what the scene is like in your university town, you need to go see and be seen and hang out with the folks who play music. You can be the best drummer in the world, but if you aren't connecting with other musicians, nothing is going to happen. You need to

If you want to pursue music playing drums in a certain genre, you need to move to the place where that music thrives. I mean, I would love to play drums in a Celtic rock band. Is that going to happen living here in bluegrass country? Nope. Never. However, I am playing Americana music and having a blast (see my signature for the band I'm in now).

If you are into jazz, heck, I'd try to find just a piano player to play around with one afternoon. I'd find someone and just say, "Hey, I'm interested in playing a little jazz, and you're really good! Would you mind sitting down with me one afternoon and going over some tunes? I want to try it out."


I know what it's like to be chomping at the bit to play. I'm getting ready to turn 43, and I STILL feel like this.

Best of luck!
 
PorkPieGuy said:
First, relax.

Second, if you want to know what the scene is like in your university town, you need to go see and be seen and hang out with the folks who play music. You can be the best drummer in the world, but if you aren't connecting with other musicians, nothing is going to happen. You need to

If you want to pursue music playing drums in a certain genre, you need to move to the place where that music thrives. I mean, I would love to play drums in a Celtic rock band. Is that going to happen living here in bluegrass country? Nope. Never. However, I am playing Americana music and having a blast (see my signature for the band I'm in now).

If you are into jazz, heck, I'd try to find just a piano player to play around with one afternoon. I'd find someone and just say, "Hey, I'm interested in playing a little jazz, and you're really good! Would you mind sitting down with me one afternoon and going over some tunes? I want to try it out."


I know what it's like to be chomping at the bit to play. I'm getting ready to turn 43, and I STILL feel like this.

Best of luck!
Click to expand...

Thank you. So if I just go to a local club where a band is playing that night, I should just go up to them after and try speak to them? Otherwise it's no different from just watching them and leaving.

Traditional jazz isn't really my preferred style of drumming/music. It's just weird to me that the only really "respected" courses with drumming i.e. not "modern music studies" seems to be jazz.

I think there'll always be part of me that wants to study drums at college instead, but as I say I've asked the question here before and the consensus seems to be that it's too risky or not a viable career option.
 
Don't worry about the college degree status when it comes to drumming in a band. Nobody will ever ask. St. Vincent left music school half-way through, realizing it had no relevance. Still, stay in school, for other reasons.

Your story sounds like mine, from 1983/84. I was at university, studying Percussion Arts.

I really wanted to get a band going. I couldn't play drums in the dorm, so I had my guitar. This one weird guy stops in, comments on how weird it looked [it was Dimebag Darrell style, before Dimebag had his style]. Asked to play it, strummed it a few times, and I did not see him for the rest of the year.

The few people in my building had some gear, but could not play. The rich kids in the building released some vinyl, but weren't doing anything else with it. They couldn't be bothered with playing.

The music majors were clinical, dry, not interested in having a band, and really not fun people overall. They were very serious at all times. In all fairness, I did not interact with everyone.

The first year was utterly depressing, and the second year was starting out to be more of the same. I wasn't old enough to go to bars, and wasn't really connected to anything outside of my Percussion Arts studies.

So on a Saturday night, I'm going to bed at 7:30pm, as one does in this mindset and situation. My little brother banged on my door, and said he wanted to go to a party. I had no idea where to start, so he showed me.

Walked down a street, went into a house, put a dollar in a hat, grabbed a red cup, and got a beer. Started talking to people. Went to a few more houses.

In one house, a band was playing called The Convertibles. I was blown away. Talked to them on a break, and got to know them.

We kept on with a few more houses. The guy I saw at the beginning of my first year saw me. "Hey, you're that guy with the weird guitar." We start talking. He's got a band, and they're looking for a bass player. I have nothing else to do, so I agreed.

This turned out to be my best live band, ever. I've been in LA for 31 years, and never made as much money or had crowds that big.

We played house parties, frat and sorority parties, and dorm parties. We played bars, with my mother attending so that I could be in the venue. We got to know other bands.

The Convertibles were the band that rented out their PA, as well as their 4-track. We opened for them for our first show, in a rotting basement in a house, with little puddles of water here and there on the floor.

Eventually they opened for us.

We got to know the guy who ran the local record store. In supporting his store, he supported all of us by releasing a local music compilation tape.

It was THE best year ever.

So, what advice would I give you based on this?

Get yourself out there. Even if it's a house party. Talk to people. Press the flesh. You might meet that person who has absolutely NOTHING to do with music, who has NO music abilities at all, but they might know someone who is trying to form a band.

Find those bands. We had flyers on the bulletin boards. I don't even know if those exist anymore. If a band is playing somewhere, then go there.

Be more upbeat. I understand being down. Quite frankly, I was rather suicidal my first year. Nobody wanted to be around that, and I understand why.

Be serious at the right time. Don't be so serious when looking for a band. They want someone fun. But when you're in the band, take that role seriously. Be prepared. Practice. All that. And then be the fun performer, both at rehearsal and shows.

Getting to know people and being present and visible in the scene is valuable. I've been in other solid bands since those days. What most of them have in common is that there was no audition. We just got together to see it if would work, no pressure.

Just for kicks, I'll include a photo from that first gig in that rancid basement. See any disappointment in that bass player? I understand where you're at now. I've been there. I also understand where you can be.

KiakJTj.jpg
 
DAF, you might consider transferring to another school-- someplace with a more active music department, or that's located in a city with a more active scene. Either way, you have to be persistent-- keep auditioning for school groups, keep seeking out new people. Go see some people play, and talk to them.

And you also can't be too concerned about "your style"-- your preferred style should be "music that uses drumset." Be willing to play anything.
 
DrumWild said:
Don't worry about the college degree status when it comes to drumming in a band. Nobody will ever ask. St. Vincent left music school half-way through, realizing it had no relevance. Still, stay in school, for other reasons.

Your story sounds like mine, from 1983/84. I was at university, studying Percussion Arts.

I really wanted to get a band going. I couldn't play drums in the dorm, so I had my guitar. This one weird guy stops in, comments on how weird it looked [it was Dimebag Darrell style, before Dimebag had his style]. Asked to play it, strummed it a few times, and I did not see him for the rest of the year.

The few people in my building had some gear, but could not play. The rich kids in the building released some vinyl, but weren't doing anything else with it. They couldn't be bothered with playing.

The music majors were clinical, dry, not interested in having a band, and really not fun people overall. They were very serious at all times. In all fairness, I did not interact with everyone.

The first year was utterly depressing, and the second year was starting out to be more of the same. I wasn't old enough to go to bars, and wasn't really connected to anything outside of my Percussion Arts studies.

So on a Saturday night, I'm going to bed at 7:30pm, as one does in this mindset and situation. My little brother banged on my door, and said he wanted to go to a party. I had no idea where to start, so he showed me.

Walked down a street, went into a house, put a dollar in a hat, grabbed a red cup, and got a beer. Started talking to people. Went to a few more houses.

In one house, a band was playing called The Convertibles. I was blown away. Talked to them on a break, and got to know them.

We kept on with a few more houses. The guy I saw at the beginning of my first year saw me. "Hey, you're that guy with the weird guitar." We start talking. He's got a band, and they're looking for a bass player. I have nothing else to do, so I agreed.

This turned out to be my best live band, ever. I've been in LA for 31 years, and never made as much money or had crowds that big.

We played house parties, frat and sorority parties, and dorm parties. We played bars, with my mother attending so that I could be in the venue. We got to know other bands.

The Convertibles were the band that rented out their PA, as well as their 4-track. We opened for them for our first show, in a rotting basement in a house, with little puddles of water here and there on the floor.

Eventually they opened for us.

We got to know the guy who ran the local record store. In supporting his store, he supported all of us by releasing a local music compilation tape.

It was THE best year ever.

So, what advice would I give you based on this?

Get yourself out there. Even if it's a house party. Talk to people. Press the flesh. You might meet that person who has absolutely NOTHING to do with music, who has NO music abilities at all, but they might know someone who is trying to form a band.

Find those bands. We had flyers on the bulletin boards. I don't even know if those exist anymore. If a band is playing somewhere, then go there.

Be more upbeat. I understand being down. Quite frankly, I was rather suicidal my first year. Nobody wanted to be around that, and I understand why.

Be serious at the right time. Don't be so serious when looking for a band. They want someone fun. But when you're in the band, take that role seriously. Be prepared. Practice. All that. And then be the fun performer, both at rehearsal and shows.

Getting to know people and being present and visible in the scene is valuable. I've been in other solid bands since those days. What most of them have in common is that there was no audition. We just got together to see it if would work, no pressure.

Just for kicks, I'll include a photo from that first gig in that rancid basement. See any disappointment in that bass player? I understand where you're at now. I've been there. I also understand where you can be.
Click to expand...


You see, some of those things you said. I'm just not sure those things happen anymore. I'm not sure if it's changing times or if it's just me that doesn't see all of these things happening.

For example, at house parties, people don't have live bands. People plug their phone into a speaker and put on Spotify playlist. Add to that I live in the UK and there's hardly a space for sofa in these student houses.

"We got to know the guy who ran the local record store"

Again, I'm not sure if it's changing times. But how did this happen? I'm not even sure we have local record stores anymore, due to the internet etc.


I get that those are just specific examples of your situation, and that it's not the only way things can happen. There are a few clubs here at Bath (UK) but it's quite a small city so not too much. I really hope to start rehearsing with my band if we can get a good singer and play a few of these clubs.


I know I shouldn't, but I can't help but feel disappointed that "band music" is just not nearly as popular nowadays, particularly among people my age.

These cool stories, like how you played in an old rotting house, that's so cool! I know it's an unhealthy mindset, but I feel like these "cool" or exciting things just aren't something that happen to me. I suppose a lot has to do with my personality though
 
toddbishop said:
DAF, you might consider transferring to another school-- someplace with a more active music department, or that's located in a city with a more active scene. Either way, you have to be persistent-- keep auditioning for school groups, keep seeking out new people. Go see some people play, and talk to them.

And you also can't be too concerned about "your style"-- your preferred style should be "music that uses drumset." Be willing to play anything.
Click to expand...

I would be happy to play any style if it meant I could study drums. Unfortunately I can't justify leaving my degree to study jazz drums, as much as I LOVE the idea.
 
Yea, the record store part, I understand.

The party/Spotify scenario makes sense, too. In my time, it was a band, or it was records or tapes.

I do see what you're talking about. A few years ago, I had gone to a venue on the Sunset Strip in California. It's a place where many big bands got their start, and also were I had played through the late 80s, until the late 2000s. It was an effort to stay up-to-date on what was happening. I was ready to rock.

The "band" that took the stage was four kids with laptops and controllers. At least one of them was a piano-type keyboard controller. There were no dynamics, no emotion, and nothing outstanding about it. No drum set, either. Not even an e-kit, and no finger drumming. On a side note, I have mad respect for finger drummers, and have been working on building that ability myself.

What made it worse was looking around. Nobody was looking at them. Everybody was on their phones, ignoring them, and maybe looking for something better to do. Probably seeking out something better to ignore. I suspect they spend their lives looking for something better while missing what is going on right now.

That day, I was disappointed in both musicians and the audience.

It might very well be more difficult to find players of "real instruments." The good news is that I've seen them out there.

I'm a fan of this kid, Christone Kingfish Ingram, born in 1999. I noticed that he's playing with older players, probably because it's hard to find musicians his own age at his level of expertise.

In a way, I suppose a band is like a missing sock. Looking for it brings about nothing, and you stumble upon it when you least expect it.

Keep on drumming, FOR YOU, because you love it and because it makes you happy. I think that if you do that, then your missing sock will reveal itself.
 
Bath,
first time I saw Thomas Lang (2000 I think?) was at a Drum clinic at Bath Spa University. Lovely city.

Mick
 
You have to be a likeable guy that people want to play with. I have always been able to find gigs because I get along with people. I have gotten gigs with people who have never heard me play. I put myself in social situations with other musicians and good things tend to happen. I go to local shows where other musicians are and just talk to people. I don't get drunk, I don't talk smack about people, I just try to get along. I have played in a piano bar, I played with a DJ a couple of times, even played with a country rap band (dont ask), I have played covers and originals with more bands than I can count. I have even turned down multiple touring opportunities, all because when people think of a drummer in the area, they think of me. I'm not great, I'm barely even good, but I enjoy meeting new people and making new friends so I get gigs. You will never make friends in your dorm room, or practicing for 12 hours a day, you have to get out and be sociable. Meet other musicians and GO WHERE OTHER PEOPLE ARE MAKING MUSIC.

My other advice is to pick up the guitar. Make your own music then find people to play it with you. Then you are in a position of power. As a drummer we are reliant upon other musicians to be leaders and songwriters, which can admittedly be difficult. Take charge of your musical direction and own your future. You will be much happier not relying other people.
 
eclipseownzu said:
My other advice is to pick up the guitar. Make your own music then find people to play it with you. Then you are in a position of power. As a drummer we are reliant upon other musicians to be leaders and songwriters, which can admittedly be difficult. Take charge of your musical direction and own your future. You will be much happier not relying other people.
Click to expand...

Great point!

That was one of my motivations before college; to have some independence. Then, as a Percussion Arts major, piano, string bass, marimba, and music theory were part of the program.

To OP: Even if you don't get very proficient, picking up another instrument will help you avoid that "group project" scenario that can be a band situation. It will also make you a better drummer, as having a better understanding of other instruments helps a drummer figure out how to make the other instruments sound better.
 
Get yourself an XBOX ONE and the game Rock Band and give everyone else the finger..
 

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DrumWild said:
Yea, the record store part, I understand.

The party/Spotify scenario makes sense, too. In my time, it was a band, or it was records or tapes.

I do see what you're talking about. A few years ago, I had gone to a venue on the Sunset Strip in California. It's a place where many big bands got their start, and also were I had played through the late 80s, until the late 2000s. It was an effort to stay up-to-date on what was happening. I was ready to rock.

The "band" that took the stage was four kids with laptops and controllers. At least one of them was a piano-type keyboard controller. There were no dynamics, no emotion, and nothing outstanding about it. No drum set, either. Not even an e-kit, and no finger drumming. On a side note, I have mad respect for finger drummers, and have been working on building that ability myself.

What made it worse was looking around. Nobody was looking at them. Everybody was on their phones, ignoring them, and maybe looking for something better to do. Probably seeking out something better to ignore. I suspect they spend their lives looking for something better while missing what is going on right now.

That day, I was disappointed in both musicians and the audience.

It might very well be more difficult to find players of "real instruments." The good news is that I've seen them out there.

I'm a fan of this kid, Christone Kingfish Ingram, born in 1999. I noticed that he's playing with older players, probably because it's hard to find musicians his own age at his level of expertise.

In a way, I suppose a band is like a missing sock. Looking for it brings about nothing, and you stumble upon it when you least expect it.

Keep on drumming, FOR YOU, because you love it and because it makes you happy. I think that if you do that, then your missing sock will reveal itself.
Click to expand...

Oh no, the phone thing. We did a gig the other week and because some of the people there were family members who had made the effort to come I was keen to make eye contact. Two of them (in their 30s, not kids) spent most of the first set staring at their own and each others phones, no doubt doing what you said and looking for something better....before the next morning posting about what a great gig they were at despite missing a third of it. It got me looking around the room though and they weren't alone. It was annoying but fortunately as the night progressed and the drinks flowed people started actually watching the gig! The very thought!!

Back to the OPs issue, see if there are any music or social forums aimed at the Bath area and see if there's a musicians wanted section there. I'm in 2 bands and both of them came about as a result of answering a musicians wanted ad online.
And while this may sound overly harsh, your tone and mood in all of your posts are very "down", if this is how you present yourself in the "real world" too then you need to shake yourself out of the dumps and lighten up. Sorry to criticise but that's how I read your posts.
 
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