Hey Todd, just listened to 69 Annee Erotique. As a stupidly simple rock drummer, I'd say it's one of the most interesting jazz based works I've heard in a long time. Superb drumming, especially your cymbal expression. Eminently accessible to my down beat biased brain. Loved it, except for the strings that is. The track, and others I listened to, have such a beautiful open voice, then along come the very thin sounding string parts to glue it all together with gunge. I get the attempt at atmosphere, but all I perceive is fog.
Hey, thanks for giving it a listen. Believe me, I had to expand my idea of what is good to make that record- I had never been into having strings or much of anything in the way of predetermined arrangement, for that matter. Thanks to the amazing musicians and engineer, it turned out to be a pretty unique record, and made a couple of All About Jazz editors', and the jazz guy at the US Library of Congress' best of 2009 lists. Which is kind of bizarre to me. Anyway, the strings are actually from a really cheap Casio keyboard- the keyboardist, Steve Moore, has this crazy lo-fi rig with a Wurlitzer, two Casios and a bunch of effects. Steve is some kind of genius cat, is doing a bunch of stuff with Bill Frissell and Matt Chamberlain, just had stuff on a Jim Jarmusch film soundtrack... he's so busy I probably won't even be able to get him to do the next thing.
Ok, why is this grossly under qualified drummer bothering to critique your work? It's to highlight the difference in perception. You love the string parts, otherwise you wouldn't have included them. I hate them, probably because I dont "get it", but that's irrelevant as the net result is I dont appreciate their inclusion.
Same process with MikeM. I've read back through the posts and, at no stage do I get the impression that MikeM is "crapping" on Roach. The medium of a forum such as this is fraught with the potential for misunderstanding, and this part of the thread is a classic example of that. My researching the finer historical points of counter harmony is never going to change my perception of the string parts in your (otherwise, IMO) superb music. Similarly, if MikeM researches the progression of Roach so as to understand his execution, that's unlikely to result in MikeM appreciating Roach's style. I doubt he appreciated your insinuation that not digging deeper renders him as a non serious musician. Similarly, my critique of your work shouldn't be dismissed purely on the basis that I'm not fully acquainted with the finer points of string arrangements. Put simply, I didn't get it, therefore I don't appreciate it, therefore I don't like it.
KIS, I appreciate what you're saying, but I disagree that this is a simple matter of taste. This is about respect. Most people understand the concept that you do not go around saying bad things about your mother, your father, or your grandparents. You have to either be lacking in common respect, or think very, very little of them to do that. Likewise, in most creative, athletic and professional traditions there is a certain respect paid to the giants of the field- you don't see swimmers talking smack about Mark Spitz, or movie makers about Howard Hawks, martial artists about Bruce Lee, painters about Picasso, or runners about Prefontaine. Most of the people in these fields are also aware of the history of their craft, use it to inform their work, and measure themselves by it- movie people can name for you most or all of the major innovations that led to movies being what they are today, painters are aware of the entire human history of art, back through the medieval guilds, all the way to Lascaux.
I believe that when you take up the drums you become part of a tradition, and there needs to be some understanding of the history and basic filial and professional respect paid to the greats, elders, masters, whatever you want to call them. They are the standard by which all of us players in the street are judged, regardless of whether we are excited by their "style" or their recordings. Respect for them becomes respect for yourself for participating in something worthy.
These are not exotic concepts, and I am not some kind of musical reactionary for advocating them. On this site, however, there seems to be a belief by some that the highest value is the right of individuals to issue summary judgments based on anything or nothing, on anyone and everyone's music. I wasn't just trying to be mean when I said that this is not an attitude of serious musicians; it's actually the attitude of consumers. It's how people treat their choice of toilet paper.
As for the subject at hand, I actually don't consider Roach to be a real direct influence on my own playing. But apart from creating and playing on some of the greatest records ever, he was one of the inventors of the modern language of the instrument, and was one of the most influential guys in turning the drums into a sophisticated melodic voice in its own right. Like I said earlier: no Max Roach, no drums as you know them. He is universally respected as a jazz and drumming great. Usually you want to try to make an effort to figure out what's up with such a person if you don't get it right away. When someone basically says to me that none of that means anything, and that his hastily formed opinion is what's important, in light of my views as above, you can see there are going to be problems.
I know Mike's comments weren't especially bad by internet standards - there was no coupling of "todally" and "sux" or anything - but I hate to think of what would happen if you made the same observations to, say, Ron Carter. You might come away wondering how a man's arms could be that long.
Anyway, the UPS guy just brought me a Wilcoxon book, so I need to go. Thanks again for the thoughtful post. And never apologize for being stupidly simple! tb