jazzgregg
Pioneer Member
Finn,
One thing you need to keep in mind is that the Masada stuff isn't and never was strictly for the quartet (nor is it particularly 'Jazzy', often-but I digress), the 'Masada book' is Jewish/klezmer/Phrygian/Sfardic based tunes that he can easily orchestrate on purpose- they were written that way, to be adaptable to whatever he wants them to be. All of this falls under 'Radical Jewish Culture', not neccesarily Acoustic Masada in particular. Just to clarify, you know me=)
When it comes to 'fusion' as in the definition of the word, Zorn is an anomaly. He really does do things differently than EVERYONE else, is heads above the rest and is a total genius.
I think it's completely possible to reverse engineer Jazz music. The problem is, most who are capapble, won't do it. One of the things that makes Zorn so prolific is that he can and DOES do it. On the other hand, most Jazz musicians won't consider arranging Ellington for 4 guitars and 3 drummers or a laptop and theramin even though that would be bitchin, I think. It's all that snobby crap 'Oh, I'm a JAZZ musician, I couldn't POSSIBLY see merit in Rammstein'. What prevents it is the people themselves. Most 'Jeff Hamilton Jazzers' HATE Zorn (I'd wager every last one of them does), think he is a bad musician and has no business playing a horn etc.etc. Of course, it's this closed mindedness that leads people to the stagnancy that is currently occurring in certain circles. It takes someone like Zorn who couldn't care less about money, labels and that kind of thing, but more importantly, it takes someone who hears merit in something so far from Jazz as Napalm Death like Zorn does. If you're a closed minded Jazz guy holed up with only your Blue Notes to keep you warm, what do you know about arranging for NON Jazz stuff? Not only that, it wouldn't even OCCUR to you or cross your mind to do it, I'd wager.
Then, there are of course the psuedo-re-arrangements. Crap you do on gigs because you or someone or all of you are too 'influenced' to know better like Disco How High the Moon, Hard Rock Solar and Reggae Days of Wine and Roses. However, I somehow doubt you mean this stuff=)
Anyway, I say it isn't possible to have another renaissance. The word 'Fusion' is already tainted and you're right Finn, no barge poles in sight. I think this will keep people away, In the malls, elevators, banks, hospitals and yes, the hold music on the phone- the end result of what happens when you attempt to merge rock and Jazz will hang around all musicians necks like an Albatross, serving as a warning to those who might try. A razor wire encrusted bastion, if you will, of how stupid music can sound and how low you can sink....
Ok, but seriously, why isn't it possible? Simple. Less lines. There are less boundries to cross, most things have been done already and 'Jazz' itself is becoming more and more distorted as to its content. There doesn't NEED to be a revival, because it never stopped occurring (fusion in the actual sense, that is), except for the Neo Boppers, but who cares about them anyway? There can't be a resurgence of something that's been infiltrating Jazz for many years. Look at how fuzzy the lines are about 'Acid Jazz' and this sort of thing for some people. Various styles and influences have always been available to the Jazz musician if he chooses to take them and today many are doing so. People like Dave Douglas have been taking steps in all directions at once , you need only to hear 'Keystone' to hear a downright Fusion album from a 'Jazz guy' (which I hated=). There is no break to be made anymore from anything.
On the other hand, it's only when you really mean it does the sublime merging of musics truely occur. This is why, like it all or not, Zorn works on so many levels to so many varied people.
On the other hand, I think the separation you speak of in younger players is indicative of what they're being taught and where/how. As we've spoken about here already, they aren't being groomed to innovate, but rather conform and look backward INSTEAD of forward. No one tells them it's okay to like both- at the same time.
Of course, this is just my opinion and what the hell do I know?
G
One thing you need to keep in mind is that the Masada stuff isn't and never was strictly for the quartet (nor is it particularly 'Jazzy', often-but I digress), the 'Masada book' is Jewish/klezmer/Phrygian/Sfardic based tunes that he can easily orchestrate on purpose- they were written that way, to be adaptable to whatever he wants them to be. All of this falls under 'Radical Jewish Culture', not neccesarily Acoustic Masada in particular. Just to clarify, you know me=)
When it comes to 'fusion' as in the definition of the word, Zorn is an anomaly. He really does do things differently than EVERYONE else, is heads above the rest and is a total genius.
I think it's completely possible to reverse engineer Jazz music. The problem is, most who are capapble, won't do it. One of the things that makes Zorn so prolific is that he can and DOES do it. On the other hand, most Jazz musicians won't consider arranging Ellington for 4 guitars and 3 drummers or a laptop and theramin even though that would be bitchin, I think. It's all that snobby crap 'Oh, I'm a JAZZ musician, I couldn't POSSIBLY see merit in Rammstein'. What prevents it is the people themselves. Most 'Jeff Hamilton Jazzers' HATE Zorn (I'd wager every last one of them does), think he is a bad musician and has no business playing a horn etc.etc. Of course, it's this closed mindedness that leads people to the stagnancy that is currently occurring in certain circles. It takes someone like Zorn who couldn't care less about money, labels and that kind of thing, but more importantly, it takes someone who hears merit in something so far from Jazz as Napalm Death like Zorn does. If you're a closed minded Jazz guy holed up with only your Blue Notes to keep you warm, what do you know about arranging for NON Jazz stuff? Not only that, it wouldn't even OCCUR to you or cross your mind to do it, I'd wager.
Then, there are of course the psuedo-re-arrangements. Crap you do on gigs because you or someone or all of you are too 'influenced' to know better like Disco How High the Moon, Hard Rock Solar and Reggae Days of Wine and Roses. However, I somehow doubt you mean this stuff=)
Anyway, I say it isn't possible to have another renaissance. The word 'Fusion' is already tainted and you're right Finn, no barge poles in sight. I think this will keep people away, In the malls, elevators, banks, hospitals and yes, the hold music on the phone- the end result of what happens when you attempt to merge rock and Jazz will hang around all musicians necks like an Albatross, serving as a warning to those who might try. A razor wire encrusted bastion, if you will, of how stupid music can sound and how low you can sink....
Ok, but seriously, why isn't it possible? Simple. Less lines. There are less boundries to cross, most things have been done already and 'Jazz' itself is becoming more and more distorted as to its content. There doesn't NEED to be a revival, because it never stopped occurring (fusion in the actual sense, that is), except for the Neo Boppers, but who cares about them anyway? There can't be a resurgence of something that's been infiltrating Jazz for many years. Look at how fuzzy the lines are about 'Acid Jazz' and this sort of thing for some people. Various styles and influences have always been available to the Jazz musician if he chooses to take them and today many are doing so. People like Dave Douglas have been taking steps in all directions at once , you need only to hear 'Keystone' to hear a downright Fusion album from a 'Jazz guy' (which I hated=). There is no break to be made anymore from anything.
On the other hand, it's only when you really mean it does the sublime merging of musics truely occur. This is why, like it all or not, Zorn works on so many levels to so many varied people.
On the other hand, I think the separation you speak of in younger players is indicative of what they're being taught and where/how. As we've spoken about here already, they aren't being groomed to innovate, but rather conform and look backward INSTEAD of forward. No one tells them it's okay to like both- at the same time.
Of course, this is just my opinion and what the hell do I know?
G
