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  #1  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:13 PM
fabiodrummy fabiodrummy is offline
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Default Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

For all it is possible to see and understand from this shot-Video Clips, drummer Charlie Watts doesn ' Swing that much,.!?,. The arms and wrists are rigid, the stick on the cymbals have no ..jazzing-sound,.!!,. Ciao fabio ..-

, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fh5r_aGkj8

CHARLIE WATTS.,5t Jazz '',From One Charlie..,
*Tv Japan,1991 The ^,Rolling Stones,^’drummer..,
Live ''Jazz Club'' by Tv-Japan.,Peter King.,sax. .Brian Lemon.,p.,
David Green.,cb.. Gerard Presencer.,tr. Japan Television .,
^,From One Charlie,^ 1991.t.50',Very Rare.,vd,1198,2.,-

- . -
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by fabiodrummy View Post
For all it is possible to see and understand from this shot-Video Clips, drummer Charlie Watts doesn ' Swing that much,.!?,. The arms and wrists are rigid, the stick on the cymbals have no ..jazzing-sound,.!!,. Ciao fabio ..-

, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fh5r_aGkj8

CHARLIE WATTS.,5t Jazz '',From One Charlie..,
*Tv Japan,1991 The ^,Rolling Stones,^’drummer..,
Live ''Jazz Club'' by Tv-Japan.,Peter King.,sax. .Brian Lemon.,p.,
David Green.,cb.. Gerard Presencer.,tr. Japan Television .,
^,From One Charlie,^ 1991.t.50',Very Rare.,vd,1198,2.,-

- . -
Can't be any worse than Neil Peart.
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

On the other hand......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwTEUljwuVo
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Ask yourself, is it accurate or fair to sum up a persons 50+ year career of drumming in a 3 minute you tube clip? The dude has also led a big jazz band.
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Ask yourself, is it accurate or fair to sum up a persons 50+ year career of drumming in a 3 minute you tube clip? The dude has also led a big jazz band.
I watched it, and I've got to say that I've gigged with drummers with worse swing feel than that. I didn't think it was bad at all.

But, to answer the question, it's absolutely not fair to sum up someone's drumming career in a short 3 minute video where there's only playing in about half of it. I know that reviewing my own recordings of drumming I've done, there are good days, and there are bad days, and it has nothing to do with the timeline - there are times that are more recent that I didn't feel like I sounded as good as I have in times more distant, so it's not even about time and experience - some days are just better days than others.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2018, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

CW knows he's not Gadd or Buddy and with that in mind plays within himself.

You know that CW is not gonna do a bunch of single stroke six stroke rolls,flammed diddles or a lightning fast 32nd note bop ride pattern.

I can't fault him for what I've heard.

I'm not a big fan of CW as many other folks place him on the same pedestal as BR and Gadd.

To each their own.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Swing, not swing, 3 minutes or 3 days of video, he's richer than everyone else on this thread combined and has played some of the largest rock shows in history. I figure he can't have done it all wrong.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

I don't listen to him, and I don't suggest people copy his way of playing. But he's fine, he's employing some players, and his heart is in the right place.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

To me he swings..

And i would recommend everyone to listen as much as possible to everything that Charlie Watts played between the mid 60's and mid 70's, because you will hear the perfect example about what band-playing should be like and in the meantime you will hear some of the best popular music ever made..

And besides that, there is no drummer on this forum (and maybe even worldwide) that has this much a own sound like Charlie Watts has and thats also worth something (if not everything)..

People who criticize drummers like Charlie Watts, should try to play those simple songs better and more effective than him and my guarantee is that they will fail on that..
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  #10  
Old 07-26-2018, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

All these folks that find fault in others, blows my mind.

So what if he looked stiff - what did it sound like? OMG - he's not employing the common pyrotechnics and is actually playing with and for the band - that can't be right! How did this guy even have a career? Shame on him, trying to play!

I'm sure Charlie doesn't care what any of us have to say about his projects. I've actually listened to some of the boogie-woogie piano stuff he did just a few years ago and you can't tell me that stuff doesn't swing. Go check it out.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Watts personal preference is Jazz. He has played with numerous prestigious jazz groups. Which stands to reason he can do the job, but he seems more an emissary for jazz-and doesn't try to emulate jazz greats. He's inspiring though I'm an old rocker who wants to jazz and swing too. I too look like a duck out of water-but I keep swimming.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Watts personal preference is Jazz. He has played with numerous prestigious jazz groups. Which stands to reason he can do the job, but he seems more an emissary for jazz-and doesn't try to emulate jazz greats. He's inspiring though I'm an old rocker who wants to jazz and swing too. I too look like a duck out of water-but I keep swimming.
That’s the idea right there ^^^

I try to leave complaining about others in my college days ;)
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
All these folks that find fault in others, blows my mind.

So what if he looked stiff - what did it sound like? OMG - he's not employing the common pyrotechnics and is actually playing with and for the band - that can't be right! How did this guy even have a career? Shame on him, trying to play!

I'm sure Charlie doesn't care what any of us have to say about his projects. I've actually listened to some of the boogie-woogie piano stuff he did just a few years ago and you can't tell me that stuff doesn't swing. Go check it out.
Agreed. He was stiff while playing with the Stones. Maybe his stiffness has saved his back unlike other humped over drummers.
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
Swing, not swing, 3 minutes or 3 days of video, he's richer than everyone else on this thread combined and has played some of the largest rock shows in history. I figure he can't have done it all wrong.
The Stones are a shining example of why not much musical talent is needed for success in the music biz.

Jagger can't sing and Richards is a barely passable guitar player.

Charlie used to offer Ginger Baker tickets to Stones shows and Ginger would turn them down saying there was no reason to go because they weren't very good musicians.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
..The Stones are a shining example of why not much musical talent is needed for success in the music biz.

Jagger can't sing and Richards is a barely passable guitar player..

I always wonder why discussions about Charlie Watts (or Buddy Rich..lol..) need to turn into kindergarten-level..

If the first 15-20 albums from The Stones are a prove of 'not much musical talent', then Buddy Rich was the worst drummer ever alive..

There, i made the connection..lol..
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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...

Jagger can't sing and Richards is a barely passable guitar player.

...
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2018, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

I agree with Ginger.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/ginge...olling-stones/
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2018, 05:11 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
Can't be any worse than Neil Peart.
Finally someone who agrees with me.
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:16 AM
Ajthundersticks Ajthundersticks is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

In my opinion he does what is required of him.
He was sacked from the band he was in before the Rolling Stones for not being good enough (allegedly), only to join the Stones shortly after.
He has remained in one of the greatest bands in the world since then so he must be doing his job well. After all, they could employ any drummer in the world!

Granted his style is awkward to watch at times, but (like Ringo) he does exactly what the music demands. Nothing more, nothing less, which is surely what all musicians should aspire to replicate.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
Charlie used to offer Ginger Baker tickets to Stones shows and Ginger would turn them down saying there was no reason to go because they weren't very good musicians.
That's hardly a sell point!

Fuck me. Ginger has been disparaging about everyone who wasn't Jack Bruce, Eric Clapton, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey and himself.

Seriously, Ginger's a monster. A pioneer whose place in history is secure for all time. But he's a bitter, twisted, miserable, cantankerous, mean spirited, old bastard. I love him dearly for it. But let's not shit ourselves here. If you're trying to use who Ginger friggen' Baker may or may not validate in order to win your argument, then you're a hell of a long way behind the eight ball to begin with. You know it and I know it.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:42 AM
Ajthundersticks Ajthundersticks is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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That's hardly a sell point!

Fuck me. Ginger has been disparaging about everyone who wasn't Jack Bruce, Eric Clapton, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey and himself.

Seriously, Ginger's a monster. A pioneer whose place in history is secure for all time. But he's a bitter, twisted, miserable, cantankerous, mean spirited, old bastard. I love him dearly for it. But let's not shit ourselves here. If you're trying to use who Ginger friggen' Baker may or may not validate in order to win your argument, then you're a hell of a long way behind the eight ball to begin with. You know it and I know it.
I'm surprised you could name that many musicians that he has even a shred of respect for!
I watched the aptly named "Beware of Mr Baker" documentary a few years ago.. Man that guy is a nasty piece of work! I thought he hated everyone, himself included.
The story about him beating the s**t out of Jack Bruce when he tried to jam with Ginger during a solo was horrific.

But you're correct, his opinions should be left out of any debate. He truly is a crazy mofo who's outlook on life is very warped.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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I'm surprised you could name that many musicians that he has even a shred of respect for!
I know it certainly seems that way. But if you scratch the surface enough, you'll find there's one or two he has immense respect for..............one or two. :-)
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:45 PM
Ajthundersticks Ajthundersticks is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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I know it certainly seems that way. But if you scratch the surface enough, you'll find there's one or two he has immense respect for..............one or two. :-)
Is one of them Ginger Baker? ;)
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Wow just reading the Wikipedia article on Charlie-pretty good article. His interest in drums started in jazz. He studied art and was a graphic artist (designed many of their album covers which I had read)-this explains a lot in my mind. I wager Watts would qualify himself more "an artist" than "drummer". Note his jazz band isn't like Buddy Rich band where you knew who the central character was-with Charlie he's in the background you'd hardly know he was there. Definitely not leading the band. He seems pretty grounded and laid back, loves music and art, and circumstance got him where he is. Pretty yin to Mick Jagger's yang so he must add balance to band and keep Mick's ego in check LOL. He's fine with ending the Stones so he seems to care less-probably felt that way for decades.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

I'm not trying to derail the thread away from talking about Charlie Watts, but since we've brought up Ginger Baker and have posted several posts about him, it wouldn't be out of place to ask if anyone has seen the documentary, "Beware of Mr. Baker."

It's an interesting expose' on Ginger Baker, both as a person and a musician. One thing Ginger will never do is apologize for himself or any of his actions, and even though he could be a bit of a b@$tard, there's something admirable about someone who has that kind of courage of conviction.

As for his drumming, I think it really depended on where he was in his career - in the documentary there are times when his playing is alternately amazing, and awful, depending on where he was in his career at the time. I think that once Ginger "made it" he stopped practicing, so his fluidity and expressiveness was reflective of how much he was playing at any given point. He always has good time, but at times it just seemed forced and too hard without much expressiveness.

As someone who really only came into drumming about 15 years ago and being too young to remember the music from the 60s and early 70s, I wasn't really aware of Ginger Baker until I was in Best Buy one day and they had the Cream reunion tour playing on a number of TVs. I saw this old grandpa looking guy back on the drums just slaying it, and I remember thinking, "who in the heck is that!?"

Interesting dude, but on a whole different spectrum than Charlie Watts - both great players for what they did in their respective bands, but worlds different.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:31 PM
Ajthundersticks Ajthundersticks is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by trickg View Post
I'm not trying to derail the thread away from talking about Charlie Watts, but since we've brought up Ginger Baker and have posted several posts about him, it wouldn't be out of place to ask if anyone has seen the documentary, "Beware of Mr. Baker."

It's an interesting expose' on Ginger Baker, both as a person and a musician. One thing Ginger will never do is apologize for himself or any of his actions, and even though he could be a bit of a b@$tard, there's something admirable about someone who has that kind of courage of conviction.

As for his drumming, I think it really depended on where he was in his career - in the documentary there are times when his playing is alternately amazing, and awful, depending on where he was in his career at the time. I think that once Ginger "made it" he stopped practicing, so his fluidity and expressiveness was reflective of how much he was playing at any given point. He always has good time, but at times it just seemed forced and too hard without much expressiveness.

As someone who really only came into drumming about 15 years ago and being too young to remember the music from the 60s and early 70s, I wasn't really aware of Ginger Baker until I was in Best Buy one day and they had the Cream reunion tour playing on a number of TVs. I saw this old grandpa looking guy back on the drums just slaying it, and I remember thinking, "who in the heck is that!?"

Interesting dude, but on a whole different spectrum than Charlie Watts - both great players for what they did in their respective bands, but worlds different.
I have no admiration for the man.
He was so talented, but ultimately got in the way of his own success.
He fell out with every musician that he worked with, didn't have time for anyone but himself, forced his way into bands using fear.
Much more than just a drummer, he had an influence on arrangements. Credited with coming up with the idea of having the 5/4 timing in "the white room".
Ultimately he got what he deserved, a man with a tarnished legacy who is running out of money despite being in some of the highest regarded bands of all time.

Had he been more like Charlie Watts (as a person, not as a drummer lol), I don't think there's any question he would still be hugely relevant and an inspiration to most drummers, young or old.
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:52 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

There are guys who play guitar with their feet and it sounds amazing. So, stiff or not, who cares. Jazz musicians want to play with him, good for him.

Let it go. Maybe you or some drummer you like has better technique. Success isn't strictly about one thing, and really most of us wouldn't want it to be, because there's 7.5 billion people in the world (and growing) and there's at least one person in the world better than you at everything you care about.

Charlie played well for the Stones. So he wants to play jazz. Lots of people who have success at one thing try something else and while Lord knows I wish Stewart Copeland would stop trying to play guitar and sing, at the end of the day I can just not listen. It doesn't hurt anybody.
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

As always, the man sounds capable to me.
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  #29  
Old 07-28-2018, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

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Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
Wow just reading the Wikipedia article on Charlie-pretty good article. His interest in drums started in jazz. He studied art and was a graphic artist (designed many of their album covers which I had read)-this explains a lot in my mind. I wager Watts would qualify himself more "an artist" than "drummer". Note his jazz band isn't like Buddy Rich band where you knew who the central character was-with Charlie he's in the background you'd hardly know he was there. Definitely not leading the band. He seems pretty grounded and laid back, loves music and art, and circumstance got him where he is. Pretty yin to Mick Jagger's yang so he must add balance to band and keep Mick's ego in check LOL. He's fine with ending the Stones so he seems to care less-probably felt that way for decades.
He tried to throw Jagger off a balcony into a canal one time.
The only reason he did not succeed is because Jagger was wearing a jacket of Keith Richards that he didn't want ruined.
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Last edited by pgm554; 07-29-2018 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Stones are so meh... I grew up listening to the AOR Rock programming. Never really noticed anything they played, except maybe that one with the floor tom groove, if I recall correctly "Paint it Black", kinda groovy.
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

In the 1970's I always thought it would be fun to get the gig Charlie Watts has.
After reading this thread I'm thinking I'd be unhappy being critiqued and unloved by so many other drummers.
But then again, if I were filthy rich I would not be sitting at home right now posting on a drummers forum. And I would not care who hates my playing...... LOL


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  #32  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

While not really familiar with his jazz stuff, I always thought his playing with the Stones was just right. It always irked me that he doesn't hit the hat while hitting the snare but whatever. I don't see it while listening so it is a moot point. Maybe the song Angie could have been swung, but I don't think it matters. Without Charlie the Stones wouldn't be the same. I'm trying to picture Bonham, Moon, Paice, or any other period correct rock drummer filling his throne. I really don't think it would work. Could you imagine a Bill Ward backed Rolling Stones?
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  #33  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Many , Many thanks ''Grazie Mille'' to all of ''YOU'' for your posts/comments,.!!.
Well, here is another king of *Jazzying* Live session where drummer,.: Charlie
Watts seams to play drums/cymbals by himself-alone..!?, realy totally ''out absent, annoyed'' from all the rest of the *Quintet*..

Mr. Watts is using(*not playing,.!!) the Brushes like my mum ..cleaned..off-away..the dusts.. To me in this case..:^ It don 't mean a thing if ''YOU'' don 't play in the real ..JAZZ..WAYS..!!?,.Ciao fabio .,Roma.,-.

, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSp3eRk7Kc

Charlie Watts, Bernard Fowler and friends play.,: ''Time After Time'' ..
Charlie Watts,dr 5t.,released *,A Tribute to Charlie Parker,*.,

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Old 08-19-2018, 06:04 PM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Charlie Watts ,does he Swing.??,or doesn 't so well..!?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiodrummy View Post
Many , Many thanks ''Grazie Mille'' to all of ''YOU'' for your posts/comments,.!!.
Well, here is another king of *Jazzying* Live session where drummer,.: Charlie
Watts seams to play drums/cymbals by himself-alone..!?, realy totally ''out absent, annoyed'' from all the rest of the *Quintet*..

Mr. Watts is using(*not playing,.!!) the Brushes like my mum ..cleaned..off-away..the dusts.. To me in this case..:^ It don 't mean a thing if ''YOU'' don 't play in the real ..JAZZ..WAYS..!!?,.Ciao fabio .,Roma.,-.

, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSp3eRk7Kc

Charlie Watts, Bernard Fowler and friends play.,: ''Time After Time'' ..
Charlie Watts,dr 5t.,released *,A Tribute to Charlie Parker,*.,

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OK, I get it. You're not a fan of Charlie Watts playing jazz. Got it.

...did he steal your lunch money in third grade or something?

Whose drumming *do* you like? Care to share some examples of *that*, instead?
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