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  #121  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:21 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

well, 1000 a night, that's 3k for a 3 piece, or 4k for a 4 piece cover band? I agree that no places around here pay that.

For a REALLY REALLY good wedding band around here you might pay a few k, but I'm not going to be having them play top 40 radio covers either. I'd probibly hire a great little jazz trio.

That seems steep. Heck even the big bars aren't paying that. I don't make as much as the cover bands in my bands, as we play all originals (and the wrong genres) at smaller clubs, but I am doing what I love and can't complain. I also don't drum for a living, so I get to play what I want. I have my day job for my income.

I suppose if I was going to try and make it a career or job out of drumming I would pick up anything I was offered. Much like a photographer willing to shoot anything as that is how they eat. A hobbyist photographer goes out after work and will shoot what they want.
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  #122  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

[quote=beyondbetrayal;1563832]well, 1000 a night, that's 3k for a 3 piece, or 4k for a 4 piece cover band? I agree that no places around here pay that.

For a REALLY REALLY good wedding band around here you might pay a few k, but I'm not going to be having them play top 40 radio covers either. I'd probibly hire a great little jazz trio.

That seems steep. Heck even the big bars aren't paying that.[quote]

Bars won't and don't pay wedding prices, which is why it's not worth my while playing them anymore, they rip bands off big time, nearly as bad as places that pay in 'exposure'.

Folks are spending funny money on weddings now, trust me when you've paid for everything else the band is the least of your worries! If you're in a wedding band laugh all the way to the bank because if you didn't someone else would.

I hired a 7 piece funk/soul band for my wedding. Didn't want a carbon copy of me with an Irish accent (Guess where my wife's from).
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  #123  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:33 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by trickg View Post

I'd venture to guess that he probably gets paid a premium to sub with that group because he's on a level to where he can. Your average bar band drummer wouldn't have a prayer in a group like that. I'm not saying that to be arrogant, but rather simply stating a fact. That's why he'll come in and leave with a cool grand in his pocket.
In NYC, the rent/mortgage is also triple, and the pay reflects that.

I'm in the corporate/wedding band scene too (although in Michigan, and the pay is about a third of what it is in NYC, due to lower demand and cost of living). You're absolutely right: the skills that a drummer needs to sub in on that level, the average coverband or or original music drummer does not usually have. You need to be able to read, and you need to be able to learn a song completely on your own, and play it down on the first try without a rehearsal. Proper dynamics, good command of a variety of styles, and the ability to take cues from the band are all must-haves. Show up on time and in a suit. It's rare that drum charts exist for gigs like this, so you're usually on your own to create them. There isn't enough time to memorize everything. As a sub, the first gig isn't worth the money, give the amount of prep time you'll put in, but you're probably going to get called again, and later gigs will be more worthwhile. Eventually, prep time is minimized, and you get to interact with players that you might not otherwise.

Back to the point about "why these songs" -- because the client wants them. Sometimes, the client is literally choosing songs from the band's list, and crossing out those they don't want, as well.
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  #124  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by Morrisman View Post
The cover band I’ve been in for 20 years has 150+ songs on our list, and if we play the same venue regularly we try and do a completely different set list every second gig. Alabama, Brown Eyed Girl, Hotel California, Mustang - are all in there, but not every gig.

We’re doing an eight hour gig next weekend, 9 different 40 minute sets from 9.30am to 5.30 pm at a winery. Will be exhausting, but also a chance to play a lot of different songs and see which ones work the best.
Yep, that's pretty much how we do it... the band's been around for about 15 years, with me drumming for 10 of it so far. We even have "groupies" (really just common friends lol) that love to see us play, even if they've been hearing the same standards for years.

I used to get really frustrated that we played same stuff over and over but you soon realize you are an employee of the club/bar/whatever and are there to entertain patrons and keep them there all night. Also, when we do private events, the client(s) often pick a big part of the songs they want to hear - again, all about pleasing the people. Plus, like Bermuda mentioned, I just like to play the drums. When the "boring" stuff comes up on the list, I just turn my head to the closest TV and go on autopilot and watch :-)
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  #125  
Old 06-06-2018, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by brentcn View Post
In NYC, the rent/mortgage is also triple, and the pay reflects that.
which is why I moved to NJ where I pay as much for a nice home on 7 acres as I used to pay for a studio apartment on St. Marks in Manhattan

there is no possible way that I could provide the proper space needed to raise a family in NYC ... it's ridiculous unless you are grandfathered in

NYC is a 15 minute drive and one tunnel toll for me and completely worth it
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  #126  
Old 06-06-2018, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
..a lot of function players have studied and played to a way higher level but why would you start tearing it up playing I'm a Believer? I played it with passion? Sorry mate we're getting another drummer!..

Since when is 'playing with passion' equal to 'overplaying a song to show all of your technical skills'..? If thats what you mean with this..

I made my living 15 years working in professional coverbands and i know exactly about which sort of 'musicians' i speak when i speak about 'musicians' who only use there instrument as a tool to make some money and those 'musicians' couldnt care less if you are passionate about drumming (or any other instrument) or not..

Playing with passion in my opinion means exactly the oppostite of what you are trying to say in that quote..

Playing with passion in my opinion means that when you play I'm A Believer that you put your heart in every note that you play, no matter how 'easy' that song might seem..

Especially with those 'easy' songs actually..

Because those songs are treated oft the most as just a joke because everyone thinks they are easy to play anyway..Which is exactly the reason why i am not even wanting to hear for example those James Brown songs at a wedding, because 9 times out of 10 i will hear a wedding band play those songs with 10-20 additional fills/ideas/etc because they think that makes the song more interesting to play..And in the meantime there is completely no groove or whatever going on..

I have had my share of such 'musicians' in life and for me enough is enough..

And yes, then i much rather play with some passionate blues guys for 10 dollars (again, euros in my case) in a local bar, then earning 500 dollars (euros) with 'musicians' that give me the feeling that they are only there for the money and nothing else..
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  #127  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

Yup me too.

All this talk about how much money can be made playing covers at weddings and expensive venues sounds like a job. Work. When it becomes all about the money then that becomes a job. That's a legit answer to the OP "Why the same old songs", but for me it's about the music and what I enjoy. I'm 62 years old and retired from an IT job; the last thing I wanna do is think of playing my drums as another job. So my answer to OP is find a band and a genre that ain't "the same songs" and go have fun.

I wonder if those pro wedding drummers bragging about how much they get paid, when they sit around and jam with other musicians purely for fun and joy at 3am on a Sunday morning, if they're still playing Brown Eyed Girl or "the same songs". Or maybe they never get to do that because they're too tired from their day job of playing weddings.

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
And yes, then i much rather play with some passionate blues guys for 10 dollars (again, euros in my case) in a local bar, then earning 500 dollars (euros) with 'musicians' that give me the feeling that they are only there for the money and nothing else..
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  #128  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:13 PM
n1ck n1ck is offline
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm glad I don't have to worry about making money by playing. I'd probably hate it in three months.

I'm an elitist and really only wanna play what I wanna play, so what the hell, I'll just take the health insurance from my corporate employer.

The extra dough from gigs is nice though.

Last edited by GruntersDad; 06-13-2018 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Language
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  #129  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by Rattlin' Bones View Post
Yup me too.

All this talk about how much money can be made playing covers at weddings and expensive venues sounds like a job. Work. When it becomes all about the money then that becomes a job. That's a legit answer to the OP "Why the same old songs", but for me it's about the music and what I enjoy. I'm 62 years old and retired from an IT job; the last thing I wanna do is think of playing my drums as another job. So my answer to OP is find a band and a genre that ain't "the same songs" and go have fun.

I wonder if those pro wedding drummers bragging about how much they get paid, when they sit around and jam with other musicians purely for fun and joy at 3am on a Sunday morning, if they're still playing Brown Eyed Girl or "the same songs". Or maybe they never get to do that because they're too tired from their day job of playing weddings.
who's bragging ... I'm stating facts that there is money to be made

and it is all fun ... every second of it

and for the record ... I am not a "cover band drummer "

I happen to get calls to sub for some cover bands that happen to be paid large sums of money ... this is not about how much I get paid ... these bands get contracted large amounts and when I get the call I obviously get a cut of what they are contracted

all of it is fun to me ... I'm playing drums for crying out loud ... the money is an absolute bonus ... I would do those gigs for a hell of a lot less ... they are a blast... watching people have the time of their lives to a groove I am laying down is a joy every single time

I actually wish I did it more often ... I don't do weddings or corporate events nearly as much anymore ... the sub calls pick up in the summer

I don't think I would take it as a regular gig if offered ... I have zero desire to be part of any band at all ... being a member of a band is a complete waste of time for me ... but the sub gig is great

and most of my life has been spent at those 3AM jams in smokey NYC clubs ... never for one second was I thinking about Brown Eyed Girl ... and honestly I don't think I've ever once listened to that song for my own personal enjoyment

as a matter of fact ... after almost every corporate or wedding event I've played at least a few of the players from the gig agree to meet at one of the late night NYC clubs for a nightcap and a jam ... we usually know the cats playing and get to sit in for a set

who in the world gets tired from playing music ... I'm not digging holes or carrying shingles up a latter to a rooftop

since I became a full time player I have not worked for one second ... they pay me to do what I would be doing anyway ... it's stealing money ... I'm a straight up thief

who would have thought that I would be monetarily rewarded to hang and play with some of the best musicians in the greatest music city on the planet ?

I have a record date tonight at one of the most prestigious recording studios in NYC with some of the most in demand jazz session players in the city ...

and guess what ... every single one of them I met years ago on a wedding gig ...

so there's that

also ... one of the producers who regularly calls me for record dates I met in 2004 as a soundman ... guess where ... on a wedding gig

no better way to make a living in my opinion .... not a better way in the world
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  #130  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by brentcn View Post
In NYC, the rent/mortgage is also triple, and the pay reflects that.

I'm in the corporate/wedding band scene too (although in Michigan, and the pay is about a third of what it is in NYC, due to lower demand and cost of living). You're absolutely right: the skills that a drummer needs to sub in on that level, the average coverband or or original music drummer does not usually have. You need to be able to read, and you need to be able to learn a song completely on your own, and play it down on the first try without a rehearsal. Proper dynamics, good command of a variety of styles, and the ability to take cues from the band are all must-haves. Show up on time and in a suit. It's rare that drum charts exist for gigs like this, so you're usually on your own to create them. There isn't enough time to memorize everything. As a sub, the first gig isn't worth the money, give the amount of prep time you'll put in, but you're probably going to get called again, and later gigs will be more worthwhile. Eventually, prep time is minimized, and you get to interact with players that you might not otherwise.

Back to the point about "why these songs" -- because the client wants them. Sometimes, the client is literally choosing songs from the band's list, and crossing out those they don't want, as well.
Same thing here - we don't command that kind of pay because the financial situation is not on par with what it is in NYC, although we were making premium bucks when we were working more in Washington DC.

Getting back to what it takes to sub a gig like this, the one advantage we have is that our bandleader, being both an arranger and sound engineer, and thus the guy creating the backing tracks, actually adds verbal cues for the drummer on the click track side of the backing track. He'll set things up on those verbal cues by counting in the click off for the tune, stating the basic style/groove, when to move to cross-stick, when to move from hats to ride and back again, and setting up for various transitions or signature hits. I keep those verbal cues in my mix when I'm playing trumpet too - I like to know what's coming, even though I've got it written on the charts that the horn players use.

Even with all of that, it's still not easy. The band leader and I jam sometimes together on those backing tracks - him on bass and me on drums - and even with those verbal cues, I'm just not quite good enough as a drummer to pull it off. I can do 85-90% of our boilerplate material, and we've talked about how in a pinch how it would probably be easier to put me back on the drums and bring in a sub trumpet player rather than to try to bring in a sub drummer, but there are a few tunes we'd have to probably avoid. The guy we have playing drums for us now is a fantastic drummer, and he's adept at just about any style you'd want, with maybe the exception of double-pedal metal. That's not his bag, but it doesn't matter because we don't do any of that in the party band.
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  #131  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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..I have a record date tonight at one of the most prestigious recording studios in NYC with some of the most in demand jazz session players in the city..

and guess what ... every single one of them I met years ago on a wedding gig..

also ... one of the producers who regularly calls me for record dates I met in 2004 as a soundman ... guess where ... on a wedding gig..

Not sure about what sort of weddings you are speaking here..

I think i played at least 400-500 wedding gigs in my life and on literally none of them i ever met a producer or someone else from the record industry..And the top jazz players in my country were too busy playing somewhere instead of being there as a guest i guess..

If you speak about playing at weddings with high profile musicians, then yes..But then we are not speaking about normal weddings, at least not in my country..Then we speak about weddings from royalty people/tv-personalities/etc..

Those people pay easily 10.000-20.000 dollars (euros) for a band, if not more..But that will not be a band that plays some standard covers, but more likely some high acclaimed session players who play some 'cool' jazz tunes while everyone has dinner and after that play with some national famous artists of which the bride maybe is a fan..

But then we speak about the top-segment of weddings..Maybe something that can be more compared with Alicia Keys playing at Obama's party or something like that..
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  #132  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

Iím gonna try to return to the original question/thread starter about the choice of songs not why we like/play in some band: the standard evolution of local bands.
They start with friends who know how to play some popular songs.
They gradually mature musically into a garage type band just for fun.
They play 20 songs, passibly, recognizable.
They pick more songs that are popular because they hear them all day on the radio-yeah, all day they work with the radio non-stop.
They think They actually have enough for a set and why not gig and make money?
And so they approach bars for gigs, usually they frequent those bars anyway, so not a big deal, after spending too much money on recording a CD and setting up a Facebook page, Ďcause isnít that what the other local, popular bands do?
And off they go doing the same covers every other local band plays....
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  #133  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Not sure about what sort of weddings you are speaking here..

I think i played at least 400-500 wedding gigs in my life and on literally none of them i ever met a producer or someone else from the record industry..And the top jazz players in my country were too busy playing somewhere instead of being there as a guest i guess..

If you speak about playing at weddings with high profile musicians, then yes..But then we are not speaking about normal weddings, at least not in my country..Then we speak about weddings from royalty people/tv-personalities/etc..

Those people pay easily 10.000-20.000 dollars (euros) for a band, if not more..But that will not be a band that plays some standard covers, but more likely some high acclaimed session players who play some 'cool' jazz tunes while everyone has dinner and after that play with some national famous artists of which the bride maybe is a fan..

But then we speak about the top-segment of weddings..Maybe something that can be more compared with Alicia Keys playing at Obama's party or something like that..
there is a circuit of working musicians in NYC ... it is a beautifully large incestuous circle .

we all are out playing all the gigs possible

... and that's how much a good private event band costs here ... no one is complaining about it
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  #134  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Since when is 'playing with passion' equal to 'overplaying a song to show all of your technical skills'..? If thats what you mean with this..

I made my living 15 years working in professional coverbands and i know exactly about which sort of 'musicians' i speak when i speak about 'musicians' who only use there instrument as a tool to make some money and those 'musicians' couldnt care less if you are passionate about drumming (or any other instrument) or not..

Playing with passion in my opinion means exactly the oppostite of what you are trying to say in that quote..

Playing with passion in my opinion means that when you play I'm A Believer that you put your heart in every note that you play, no matter how 'easy' that song might seem..

Especially with those 'easy' songs actually..

Because those songs are treated oft the most as just a joke because everyone thinks they are easy to play anyway..Which is exactly the reason why i am not even wanting to hear for example those James Brown songs at a wedding, because 9 times out of 10 i will hear a wedding band play those songs with 10-20 additional fills/ideas/etc because they think that makes the song more interesting to play..And in the meantime there is completely no groove or whatever going on..

I have had my share of such 'musicians' in life and for me enough is enough..

And yes, then i much rather play with some passionate blues guys for 10 dollars (again, euros in my case) in a local bar, then earning 500 dollars (euros) with 'musicians' that give me the feeling that they are only there for the money and nothing else..
Here we go again, going off like a bottle of pop because I have a different opinion to you. Wind your neck in and stop preaching, I really don't give a toss. Glad you did covers for 15 years, I bet the people you played with are distraught you decided to knock it on the head.

Ironically most of the 'same songs' that we all play were recorded by people who used their instrument as a money making tool. I'm a Believer being a prime example.

It's quite funny however that you've called me out and others for being honest and saying we do it for the money and nothing more.
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  #135  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

I lied btw with my 'tv-personalities will pay a lot'-statement, since i once played at a party from a worldwide famous football (soccer) player/trainer, because his wife turned 40, and we played there for not even 1000 dollars (euros) in total with 3 people..lol..

And when we were finished, he came to ask if we maybe could play half an hour more for an extra 50 dollars (euros) each, which he still ows me, since he was too drunk to remember anything at the end of the night..lol..

Every time i see him on tv i think to myself, you still owe me 50 dollars (euros) bastard..lol..
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  #136  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:26 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
If you speak about playing at weddings with high profile musicians, then yes..But then we are not speaking about normal weddings, at least not in my country..Then we speak about weddings from royalty people/tv-personalities/etc..

Those people pay easily 10.000-20.000 dollars (euros) for a band, if not more..But that will not be a band that plays some standard covers, but more likely some high acclaimed session players who play some 'cool' jazz tunes while everyone has dinner and after that play with some national famous artists of which the bride maybe is a fan..
We're all speaking about performing as a drummer in wedding bands in the USA. Sometimes you'll play a set of jazz while the guest have drinks and hors d'oeuvres, sometimes not. Then, you'll play a few sets of music after dinner, for dancing. And yes, these songs are, very often, typical bar band material: September, Brown Eyed Girl, Brick House, etc. You would of course not play with the famous artists/singers -- you would only play their songs with your band.

And yes, the clients will pay 10-20k USD, at least in NYC, and probably Los Angeles. Everywhere else that number is $3500 - $10000.
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  #137  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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It's quite funny however that you've called me out and others for being honest and saying we do it for the money and nothing more.
Being a working musician is kind of interesting because I fit that definition - practice for me revolves around the next gig I'm prepping for, and the gig is a paid gig 95% of the time.

But, I've also always considered the money to be the icing on top, or the gravy, so to speak. It's great to get paid, and that's usually the goal, but I'll sub drums on occasion for a church and not get a dime for my efforts, and I do it because I just love to play and make music with other people.

There's a reason we have that saying that, "a bad day at a gig beats a good day at work." Even if that means playing the same boilerplate covers that every other band plays.
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  #138  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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..Here we go again, going off like a bottle of pop because I have a different opinion to you. Wind your neck in and stop preaching, I really don't give a toss..

Problem with only writing is always a little that someone never knows how other people read/understand those words..

I am sorry that you got upset Miky..

But i actually read posts/replies from people that disagree with me with a lot of interest, since those are the ones that i actually maybe can learn something from..And there is nothing meant sarcastic with this..
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  #139  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by Rattlin' Bones View Post
Yup me too.

All this talk about how much money can be made playing covers at weddings and expensive venues sounds like a job. Work. When it becomes all about the money then that becomes a job. That's a legit answer to the OP "Why the same old songs", but for me it's about the music and what I enjoy. I'm 62 years old and retired from an IT job; the last thing I wanna do is think of playing my drums as another job. So my answer to OP is find a band and a genre that ain't "the same songs" and go have fun.

I wonder if those pro wedding drummers bragging about how much they get paid, when they sit around and jam with other musicians purely for fun and joy at 3am on a Sunday morning, if they're still playing Brown Eyed Girl or "the same songs". Or maybe they never get to do that because they're too tired from their day job of playing weddings.
We're not bragging we're just saying how much we charge for us to play Brown Eyed Girl and Mustang Sally at 3am on a Sunday morning. By the time I'm 62 I don't want to still be doing this either!

Is it a job - Yes and we've never treated it differently. It stops band bullshit and internal politics. It's not always fun but tell me a job that is.

Do I enjoy it - Yes, I get to work with some of my best friends and network and get more paid gigs through doing it.

Do I get tired from playing weddings - yes I do but it's nicer to come home tired to a wife who knows you've been working hard rather than coming back to a wife out of pocket because you've been playing rock star in your 30s with a mortgage and bills.
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  #140  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
..there is a circuit of working musicians in NYC ... it is a beautifully large incestuous circle .

we all are out playing all the gigs possible

... and that's how much a good private event band costs here ... no one is complaining about it..

Thats clear then..

My complete country has the same size like New York..lol..(allthough we kinda started that city, but thats another topic..lol..)

But you are right, i have no clue about costs in that city or how much people are willing to pay for a nice band..In my country those numbers are only for a very limited amount of musicians..Everyone else is very happy when getting 250 dollars (euros) for a night..Especially when this happens avarage 10-12 times a month..
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  #141  
Old 06-06-2018, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Problem with only writing is always a little that someone never knows how other people read/understand those words..

I am sorry that you got upset Miky..

But i actually read posts/replies from people that disagree with me with a lot of interest, since those are the ones that i actually maybe can learn something from..And there is nothing meant sarcastic with this..
It's cool man, these threads always turn into us vs them.

Same as gear sharing threads :)
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

In smaller communities, there often isn't a lot of option to play styles that aren't easily accessible and "popular". So yes, many working bands play much of the standard fare, those same "twenty songs"....

As someone else mentioned, a good tactic is to play other popular songs by those same artists. Instead of Old Time Rock and Roll, play Her Strut, for example.

We play covers, and sometimes we play those ones that every musician on Facebook moans about. I feel that playing some of those gives us license to play some stuff that is a bit more obscure, so long as we're giving them some stuff that they know and like.

And you can play some obscure covers and make them your own. We close our first set at every show with a song called "Thank The Lord For Jack Daniels." Works every time, and no one there will have ever have heard it before. There's another one called "The Bottle" by Riders Ford that we open a set with, and it always gets a good reaction. But again, we play a bunch of stuff that they know and love, too. Sometimes we throw them into a medley, to mix it up.

Short of it, you can play covers and keep the audience happy, as well as being a bit creative with some other stuff, too. If you work at it. Having the standards handy and available if the other stuff isn't working makes it more sensible. We don't always program Sweet Home Alabama, but we can throw it in if it makes sense, and we need to bring the audience back and get them engaged. (And yes, we'll throw in a verse of All Summer Long into it, if we're gonna play it, might as well get folks into it.)

Have fun playing.

Last edited by BruceW; 06-06-2018 at 09:46 PM.
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  #143  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

Unless you're required to get a nipple piercing and a tomahawk I think it makes sense to try every gig or type of gig you get once.

As mentioned, you never know who you'll meet, so treat it as a professional and you might get lucky.
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  #144  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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..Unless you're required to get a nipple piercing and a tomahawk..

That sounds like a gig of which i think my girlfriend would encourage me a lot to take..lol..
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  #145  
Old 06-07-2018, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

Or Dwight Yoakum. Just shoot me now if I had to play just one of his songs in a gig.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm glad I don't have to worry about making money by playing. I'd probably hate it in three months.

I'm an elitist and really only wanna play what I wanna play, so what the hell, I'll just take the health insurance from my corporate employer.

The extra dough from gigs is nice though. Good weed money. AND I don't have to play fuckin' Taylor Swift!
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  #146  
Old 06-07-2018, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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And yes, then i much rather play with some passionate blues guys for 10 dollars (again, euros in my case) in a local bar, then earning 500 dollars (euros) with 'musicians' that give me the feeling that they are only there for the money and nothing else..
Interesting thread, but you seem to have taken a rather haughty stance here. You wanna play for peanuts with some blues guys, thats great, your choice, and you deem it a pure one. But a group of musicians playing top-40 covers together for more than 10 dollars doesn't mean they aren't feeling a good time either, or are somehow impure in their musicianship by showing up for money. Top-40 cover bands can have passion and good times too.
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  #147  
Old 06-07-2018, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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As someone else mentioned, a good tactic is to play other popular songs by those same artists. Instead of Old Time Rock and Roll, play Her Strut, for example.
I preached this with two bands I was in. Sometimes they agreed with me...sometimes not. Play Free Bird? How about Tuesday's Gone instead? Or Blackfoot's Highway Song? Can't Get Enough? Play Rock Steady. Takin' Care Of Business? How about Hey You?

Even at that, I'm sure someone somewhere will roll their eyes and go "OMG NOT THAT SONG!!!".
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  #148  
Old 06-07-2018, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Thereís been an ongoing theme with cover bands with everyone playing the same song lists regardless of venue or band, mostly played average or best, and Iím not singling out the drummer. You could go into a park, bar or festival and hear the same 20 song playlist day after day and month after month. This doesnít seem to be limited to my area as much as I thought. In contrast, the music scene seems quite different, when I visit either coast with far greater variety and quality.

Now, youíd think thatís all Phoenix wanted, but itís not the case. There are a few and I do mean few bands who are gigging the high end venues every weekend and drawing a big crowd, but everywhere else is about as predictable as possible.

I keep reading about how you are only expected to play Sweet Home Alabama or Mustang Sally at every gig, but why is that, if at least a few bands are getting cool gigs doing way more?

Iím posting this due to all this conversation about the money beat, but the better bands Iím referring to are playing songs from Dave Mathews to Zeppelin to James Brown, Pretty much every genre in the top 40 categories across the last 4 decades and some far from the money beat. The crowds respond well regardless.

So, why arenít more bands aspiring to play all of the above, instead of the same 20 songs, when thereís obviously a call for them when other bands are making money getting great gigs? Is it because they figure itís better to be a stage whore than do something better? What is it and why would someone hire one band over the other, when thereís really no variety?
Great points. I've been saying the same things for many years while playing in bands. Same tired old covers, over and over.

I've been saying this to both bands I'm playing in now. My recent point is that the millennials are increasingly the ones we're playing for and they don't want to hear all of these tired old covers...
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  #149  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Even at that, I'm sure someone somewhere will roll their eyes and go "OMG NOT THAT SONG!!!".
As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.



Funny, I've seen quite a few of these types of threads in my time here.

The more I see, the more I'm convinced they're actually less about "why play the same songs?" And more about "why are you whoring your corporate controlled souls by playing popular tunes to the masses for money?"

I'm sure it's just the cynic in me. And I'm sure they don't all start with that intent. But they sure as hell all end that way. As if true artistry can only be achieved by suffering for said art in small rooms, to small crowds, for no money.

To quote Uncle Larry's often cited catch cry, there's room for everybody. You don't even have to pick a side. Just play yer drums, on your own terms. And be content that others are gonna do likewise.
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  #150  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

It depends where we come from and what we want out of music.

I was always part of everything that happened musically in my small town. Being in the backing band for all sorts of stuff. Choirs, theatre, big band, comping local talent since I myself was a young talent, old people, young kids, youth club, retirement home, outdoor rock show. I wanted to know it all and be a session and freelance musician.

What I want from a gig is really just professionalism and positive attitude.
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  #151  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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..Interesting thread, but you seem to have taken a rather haughty stance here..

I am not a native american and i had to look up that word, but from what i understand this means that you kinda read my replies in this thread as if i am seeing myself as more or better than the others..

Like i replied to Miky, the problem with only writing is that someone never really knows how other people read or interpretate those words..

But, feeling superior (or something like that) to other people is something that is very far away from my character..I have a strong opinion about things, especially regarding music, but i will never see that opinion as being the 'truth' or anything like that..Thats why i also said that replies from people that disagree with me (or that i disagree with) i read with the most interest, because i am always curious and interested in how other people see things and many times i think to myself 'yes, could also be like that'..But thats to me what a discussion should be about..Listening to eachothers opinions, think about them and in the end you create your own personal view..

Thats why i also never get upset about whatever someone says here to me (or others), because i know that in most cases we only react to eachothers written opinion and not to persons, allthough those opinions are written ofcourse by persons..

But, i will quit this 'keyboard philosophizing reply'..lol..

Lets just agree that we are all equal..
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  #152  
Old 06-07-2018, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
I am not a native american and i had to look up that word, but from what i understand this means that you kinda read my replies in this thread as if i am seeing myself as more or better than the others..

Like i replied to Miky, the problem with only writing is that someone never really knows how other people read or interpretate those words..

But, feeling superior (or something like that) to other people is something that is very far away from my character..I have a strong opinion about things, especially regarding music, but i will never see that opinion as being the 'truth' or anything like that..Thats why i also said that replies from people that disagree with me (or that i disagree with) i read with the most interest, because i am always curious and interested in how other people see things and many times i think to myself 'yes, could also be like that'..But thats to me what a discussion should be about..Listening to eachothers opinions, think about them and in the end you create your own personal view..

Thats why i also never get upset about whatever someone says here to me (or others), because i know that in most cases we only react to eachothers written opinion and not to persons, allthough those opinions are written ofcourse by persons..

But, i will quit this 'keyboard philosophizing reply'..lol..

Lets just agree that we are all equal..
Yes, so true. We don’t have body language, voice inflection and person to person interaction here on the internet.
And those things can completely change the meaning of the words that we type on a keyboard.

For instance the comment I made earlier in this thread was meant to agree with Bermuda's comments.
But my comment could have been understood or misunderstood in many different ways.


.
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  #153  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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By the time I'm 62 I don't want to still be doing this either!
I'll be 62 in a few months, and still tour the world, and play in local original and cover bands when I'm home. Don't knock it till you've tried it!

Bermuda
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  #154  
Old 06-07-2018, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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I'll be 62 in a few months, and still tour the world, and play in local original and cover bands when I'm home. Don't knock it till you've tried it!

Bermuda
Give me 28 years and I'll give you an honest opinion. I'm hoping to get there in one piece first :)

Ozzy comes from 10 miles up the road and look at him. We don't age well here!

On a serious note I'm hoping to have the mortgage paid and retired from the 9-5 as well so I can enjoy myself.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Funny, I've seen quite a few of these types of threads in my time here.

The more I see, the more I'm convinced they're actually less about "why play the same songs?" And more about "why are you whoring your corporate controlled souls by playing popular tunes to the masses for money?"

I'm sure it's just the cynic in me. And I'm sure they don't all start with that intent. But they sure as hell all end that way. As if true artistry can only be achieved by suffering for said art in small rooms, to small crowds, for no money.

I'm fully aware i'm not good enough technically or creatively to do originals - whether that is the only path to true artistry or not.....

I am good enough to fairly accurately reproduce drum parts already written by better and more creative players - therefore my avenue to perform- like many other less talented but no less passionate players- is to be in a cover band. I get to have a night out, doing something i love,and come home with the same amount of money that many would normally SPEND on a night out - if that's corporate whoring then i guess you better count me in!


If creating original music is your thing..fantastic - i wish i was capable.

If you aren't bitten by the performance bug and playing in your basement to no-one but yourself is what brings you joy..more power to you! i envy you the joy of playing without all the humping gear about.

For me - it's the chance to play in front of people AND earn a few quid doing it, even if it does meaning playing the same songs over and over.


I echo Uncle Larry's sentiments - there's room for all .
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  #156  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Give me 28 years and I'll give you an honest opinion. I'm hoping to get there in one piece first :)

Ozzy comes from 10 miles up the road and look at him. We don't age well here!

On a serious note I'm hoping to have the mortgage paid and retired from the 9-5 as well so I can enjoy myself.
I'm only a few years behind Bermuda...and I'm here to say that this is fun, playing and gigging. (Of course, I had a 20 year hiatus for career and family, so this is still a bit fresh.)

I am enjoying myself. I bet you will be, too. Just don't let it become work.
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  #157  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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Same thing here - we don't command that kind of pay because the financial situation is not on par with what it is in NYC, although we were making premium bucks when we were working more in Washington DC.

Getting back to what it takes to sub a gig like this, the one advantage we have is that our bandleader, being both an arranger and sound engineer, and thus the guy creating the backing tracks, actually adds verbal cues for the drummer on the click track side of the backing track. He'll set things up on those verbal cues by counting in the click off for the tune, stating the basic style/groove, when to move to cross-stick, when to move from hats to ride and back again, and setting up for various transitions or signature hits. I keep those verbal cues in my mix when I'm playing trumpet too - I like to know what's coming, even though I've got it written on the charts that the horn players use.
Sounds like a very well-run band! Give me a shout if you ever need a sub! :)
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  #158  
Old 06-07-2018, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

I could not do it. Takes a special person to go on tour like that. I don't think people really realize how hard it is. Like my son who is a golf pro people think what a cool job. Yeah up at course by sunrise 7x days a week, leave an hour or two after sunset, in all kinds of weather, staff issues, pleasing members.And ya never get to play any rounds. They're dream jobs until you do it and realize how hard it is. I could not do it, Bermuda.


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I'll be 62 in a few months, and still tour the world, and play in local original and cover bands when I'm home. Don't knock it till you've tried it!

Bermuda
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  #159  
Old 06-08-2018, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

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I could not do it. Takes a special person to go on tour like that. I don't think people really realize how hard it is. Like my son who is a golf pro people think what a cool job. Yeah up at course by sunrise 7x days a week, leave an hour or two after sunset, in all kinds of weather, staff issues, pleasing members.And ya never get to play any rounds. They're dream jobs until you do it and realize how hard it is. I could not do it, Bermuda.
I have to agree.

It sounds fantastic....but then my band will get two gigs at a weekend and by the end of those two gigs I never want to see a drum kit again (until the weekend after :-))

I'm more than happy to be a weekend warrior :-)
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Why the same songs, when so many to choose from?

I'm also going to agree with that. I spent 10 years as an active duty Army musician - 3 years in a regular base band, and 7 years in a special unit, The Old Guard Fife & Drum Corps. Granted, this was music mixed with being a soldier, but there were days when I had a gig, and the last thing I wanted to do was to get the horn out of the case. It became a job like any other.

The only thing I miss about it now that I'm basically a weekend warrior is the level of consistency and proficiency with the instrument that I had during that period. There are times when I'm doing a lot of playing and work in the practice room where I can get it close, but I can't sustain it because other life gets in the way, and it distracts and takes the time away from playing the horn.

Otherwise, I like being a weekend warrior. I make good money with my day job, and I supplement well as a working musician. Life is pretty good. :-)
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