How heavy is your hardware? I've had enough!

As to the original question----
I've been using DW 6000 series straight cymbal, and snare stand (for tom) for a couple years, and I've not had one single issue with any of it.
I even use a 24" ride cymbal that I crash, and the stand stays put just fine. I play pretty hard at times in my different bands, & have no issues at all with these stands.

The tube size are not tiny, but are small-ish (7/8, 3/4, 1/2). Great stands, 5 stars from me.

Ludwig's new Atlas stands have basically the same diams (but a slightly larger top tube diam.), so I doubt they'd go anywhere either.
I have a bunch of those on order (selling 2 snares took care of the bill!).

I'm also trying out the Atlas FB hat stand.
It's got the same tube diam as the DW 2 legger I'm using now, so if it's not wobbly (like the DW FB hat stand is) with this new leg clamping thing, and with the tube size, I'll buy it.

The FB Atlas snare stand has an infinite angle basket too, which is nicer than the DW stands geared basket I have now. The DW 6000 works great, but having the drum in exactly the spot I want is a better option.

I am selling a bunch of my double braced cymbal stands. I just don't use them anymore.
Once I get the Atlas stands, I'm putting the DW FB stands on my rehearsal kit.

I still use a larger stand for the snare because the single braced stand moved on me a bit. Just don't wanna deal with it, so I accepted another lb. or two. For one stand, big deal.

When you can have 3 stands in 1 hand, and they ALL feel like they weigh as much as ONE of the others....

Carrying the hardware case up/down my walkout stairs is easy now.
 
When I checked out the new Ludwig stuff at the NAMM show I was impressed. Anyone looking for simple flat-based cymbal stands and lighter snare and hi-hat stands should definitely check those out when they become really available and in stock in stores.

Sonor also makes these really cool flat-based cymbal stands that nobody really knows about. And of course, there's the DW flat-based stuff and Gibraltars' flat-based stuff. I agree that if you ARE mounting multiple things on one stand, then you need a bigger stand - double-braced if possible - it's just physics, I say.

But what's really frustrating is that in my area anyway, lighter hardware is just not stocked by anybody. Walk into a Sam Ash or a Guitar Center and what do they have? The heavy stuff. In fact, they'll sell you a Sound Percussion stand for alot less than you'd pay for a special order flat-based cymbal stand (The SP stands suck btw - after a while the wingnuts fail to really hold the stand in position). Your only choice may be Pro Drum out in Hollywood, who really stock stuff for the working drummers.
Unfortunately, although it's great that we have so many people into drumming, the fact that they're so influenced by the advertisements really affects what the real working guys need.
 
But what's really frustrating is that in my area anyway, lighter hardware is just not stocked by anybody.

Same here.

The last time I walked into Guitar Center (why I did, I'm not sure) the guy for the life of him could not understand why I didn't want a double braced cymbal stand. I left empty handed.
 
Same here.

The last time I walked into Guitar Center (why I did, I'm not sure) the guy for the life of him could not understand why I didn't want a double braced cymbal stand. I left empty handed.

Apparently every kid who goes into one of those stores already has a truck and his own road crew ;)
 
Yes I've reached that conclusion too. I swear I could make a mint by re-thinking and building my own hardware. Like why don't they use aluminum? A..... Make them from aluminum for Pete's sake. Aluminum can be polished to look like chrome. Make them in available in different colors! It's stiffness not weight that counts. The weight to stability ratio should be a primary design consideration.

Both Sonar and Gibraltar have offered aluminum hardware in the past.
Both sold poorly.

The big issue was with the boom stands, they were too light. If you extended the boom, the weight of the cymbal would cause the stand to fall over. Even the non-boom stands had some issues. A pure aluminum is actually too light to be functional for most drummers.

However, what I have never understood is why they don't say, OK, steel is too heavy, aluminum is too light, so make stand where the base/tripod section is steel, but have the upper tubing be aluminum. The the problem of both materials is solved.
 
Apparently every kid who goes into one of those stores already has a truck and his own road crew ;)

Nah....
When you're real young, you just say "this is what I play, and nothing else matters" haha!

Double braced stuff is what everyone sees, and is now used to. Seems like it's gotten to where people question weather even good single braced stuff will "do the job".
Single braced Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, DW, etc... can handle pretty much what anyone throws at it.

I agree on multiple things on a stand though.
One good DB stand will hold a lot of stuff.

My set up is pretty simple these days. I pretty much have about the same amount of "stuff", but I already did the heavy thing, and the customized thing.
I still like the look of the customized hardware I did up, I just don't want to haul it anymore. The "simpler version" looks as nice to me, and it's waaaay easier to move.

I like the features on DW's FB stands with the tilter, space adjustment, memory locks...
None of the other stands have that, even though something like the Gibraltar is made great too, and I like the break tilter and their felts.
Memory locks were my BIG thing (for me) with the DW stands though.

Bo, did you happen to "try out" that FB hat stand at all, or just look at it?
 
I agree w/ Les - start working out. Your perspective of how hard the work is, schlepping gear, improves dramatically if you're fit. I was in terrible shape a couple of years ago...hauling gear was a frustrating chore. Now I actually enjoy it and always feel good from the workout, the next day.

That being said; I strap all of my crap onto a dolly, with a couple of bungee cords. Two trips; one for hardware and one for drums. Fast and easy. I'm working on a small, light ramp idea so I can just keep all the hardware on the dolly during transport, so there's no loading and unloading the hardware in and out of the SUV, in between.
 
Nah....
When you're real young, you just say "this is what I play, and nothing else matters" haha!

Double braced stuff is what everyone sees, and is now used to. Seems like it's gotten to where people question weather even good single braced stuff will "do the job".
Single braced Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, DW, etc... can handle pretty much what anyone throws at it.

I agree on multiple things on a stand though.
One good DB stand will hold a lot of stuff.

My set up is pretty simple these days. I pretty much have about the same amount of "stuff", but I already did the heavy thing, and the customized thing.
I still like the look of the customized hardware I did up, I just don't want to haul it anymore. The "simpler version" looks as nice to me, and it's waaaay easier to move.

I like the features on DW's FB stands with the tilter, space adjustment, memory locks...
None of the other stands have that, even though something like the Gibraltar is made great too, and I like the break tilter and their felts.
Memory locks were my BIG thing (for me) with the DW stands though.

Bo, did you happen to "try out" that FB hat stand at all, or just look at it?

If you're referring to the Ludwig stuff at the NAMM show, yeah, I actually pulled it on to the floor and got my foot on it. It felt great. But it wasn't a real test of actually playing it. Although I think it would work out great, I can't say I've stomped on it for a gig, however.
 
Aluminum CAN be chrome plated. Boom stands tipping over can be solved with a counter weight. Also using a quickly adjustable link between cymbal stands to tie them together would help with stabilization. Kind of like a telescoping double ended clamp.
 
I would love to. Being a structural engineer...I mean what more qualifications would you want? I just get off designing stuff that I would like for myself.

This would be my design criteria:

2-3 lbs total weight
Universal ball tilters w/felts that don't fall off when upside down, and big easy levers for tightening and untightening them, plus a wing nut-less system for holding the cymbal on, that is as small and skinny as possible above the bell
Engraved markings instead of mem locks, saves weight
Highly polished lightweight thinwall aluminum tubes, skinny as possible, available in colors
Hook type velcro feet that grabs carpet, tip over protection to compensate for the light weight
Collapses smaller than the standard to 24" total length

Did I miss anything?

Even if it cost twice as much, I'd buy it.
I think I am going to try this. Larry. I am going to start messing around with your ideas in some AutoCAD sketches. You and I are on the same page, especially about aluminum tubes. Velcro is a must. I aleady use it under my kick pedal and it works better than anything I've ever used for keeping my pedal and kick drum still. I hate heavy hardware, so I am motivated.
 
I enjoy my heavy hardware.

Then again, my 18th birthday is a few days away. But age and physical condition aside, I have this feeling about heavy hardware that just seems more secure. Maybe it's some Freudian masculinity thing, but I like having moderately hefty stands. Just solid.

Not to mention that lighter hardware tends to be more poorly constructed and held together. I save money in the long run by taking good care of heavy hardware than light hardware because the heavy stuff outlasts the light stuff for quite a long time.
 
Well made hardware can be made light or heavy. My Gibraltar flat stands are a few pounds each and have thinner tubing, but they hold my cymbals up just fine, and I play hard.
 
I went from my 6 piece Oak Custom kit with a rack system and a Town and Country van to a 4 piece Oak Custom kit with single braced HW and the Scion XB. Picked up a Gator rolling hardware bag and my back could not be happier. My throne is a Pork Pie heavy duty but I need that because I'm 250lbs. I do miss the fast setup of the rack system and at times I may set it up on certain jobs....may set it up? Not sure yet.

I'm 58 and doing well over 100 gigs per year and want to continue playing as long as I can so the more I can do to make that happen I'm all for it.

Anyone looking for a Gibraltar Rack?
 
I use three of these for crashes and ride. Not heavy, not double-braced, but sturdy enough for as hard as I hit. And I really don't believe the nonsense I read in this thread that cymbals sound "better" on heavy stands. Puh-lease....if you want them to and convince your brain that they do then swell. Sorry, but no humans hearing (especially a drummer) is that sensitive to the ever so slight tonal differences of a crashing cymbal depending on stand thickness.

http://www.vintagedrum.com/item/Gibraltar-7710-Elliptical-Leg-Straight-Cymbal-Stand-ST8657710
 
Sorry, but no humans hearing (especially a drummer) is that sensitive to the ever so slight tonal differences of a crashing cymbal depending on stand thickness.

http://www.vintagedrum.com/item/Gibraltar-7710-Elliptical-Leg-Straight-Cymbal-Stand-ST8657710

Sorry, but I didn't see anything in your expert comments about a recording engineers trained hearing. This is where I based these comments on a controlled studio situation. Do you even know what oscillations are, what causes them and the influences they have on the recording process? I didn't think so.

BTW, I too can hear a differnce with hardware between that of light weight and heavier, more stable stands in live situations.

Dennis
 
Some of these posts beg the question: "how do we prove to others what we hear"? (and they don't)

The physics is that there is certainly a difference in the sound (free and sympathetic oscillations, vibrations) of everything - a crash cymbal on a Yamaha doudle braced, vs same on a Pearl single braced stand, and so on. Yep, a microphone will sense it, but will an ear drum...and how do we prove that.

The point of the thread is to save weight and effort. It might be worth the change sonically that we can argue we can/cannot hear.
 
Sorry, but I didn't see anything in your expert comments about a recording engineers trained hearing. This is where I based these comments on a controlled studio situation. Do you even know what oscillations are, what causes them and the influences they have on the recording process? I didn't think so.

BTW, I too can hear a differnce with hardware between that of light weight and heavier, more stable stands in live situations.

Dennis

Dennis, as much as I respect your stature as an audio engineer, that's got to be a bit of 'tweezing', don't you think? To me, it's all about the end result of the music being made by the musicians you're recording, and the vibe they're producing. You really think a difference in oscillations that are dependent on the type of stands being used is going to make that big of a noticeable difference?

If that were indeed the case, then by virtue of the times they were recorded in, the light stands would be the way to always go because they would've moved with the instruments and enabled them to breathe more. But then what do you say to someone like Steve Jordan who uses somewhat heavy hardware? Does his music have any less vibe or breathing? Come on now.
 
Dennis, as much as I respect your stature as an audio engineer, that's got to be a bit of 'tweezing', don't you think? To me, it's all about the end result of the music being made by the musicians you're recording, and the vibe they're producing. You really think a difference in oscillations that are dependent on the type of stands being used is going to make that big of a noticeable difference?

If that were indeed the case, then by virtue of the times they were recorded in, the light stands would be the way to always go because they would've moved with the instruments and enabled them to breathe more. But then what do you say to someone like Steve Jordan who uses somewhat heavy hardware? Does his music have any less vibe or breathing? Come on now.

Your absolutely correct about it being the end result, but that end result constitutes everything from the beginning to the end of the production. Having the cleanest practical approach to the recording process, will exhibit the cleanest quality in the final product. There is no better way to achieve this than starting at the sound's source and this includes anything that can deter from the quality of the sound's source. Besides everything else that creates unwelcome noise from drum kits, heavier weight stands are a very easy way to minimize unwanted vibrations from cymbal hits. I want to hear the cymbal and not the oscillations or "longer" vibrations from the stands they are sitting on. If you have the ear, try using a sand bag on the legs of some of your cymbal stands just to add a bit of weight. It acts somewhat like a bias giving the cymbals themselves more definition and depth because the cymbals will find it less likely to resonant the heavier weight stands themselves. It's really like audio 101, why do recording engineers, or any other sound professional, use microphone shock mounts? To be able to isolate the microphone from their stands or surroundings that will directly influence the sound entering the microphone in a negative way.

We all like the good vibrations, no reference to the Beach Boys, it what's picked up by the microphones which then is translated into wave forms that we hear as audible sounds in our ears and adjacent bone structures around our ears. Most of the time, if they are not controlled, these same microphones will pick up vibrations, mostly within the human range of hearing, but not always, that will influence the recording process by ways of frequency harmonics causing uncontrollable subliminal oscillations within the mix.

If you've done any studio recording professionally or received any degree in your audio field, you should well know that it is always best to start with a clean signal, because garbage in is always EQ'd garbage out, no matter what famous drummer plays it. As it turns out, "that big of a noticeable difference" is not how I view things in life, but instead, how can I make it better. I'm kept very busy and make a very good living at what I do because I take the extra five or ten minutes to accomplish things without compromise.

Dennis
 
My new Pearl Eliminator hi hat stand could be used to bludgeon an elephant to death. It's a little on the heavy side for gigging but it will probably never break.
 
Back
Top