Berklee anyone?

(Future)DWdrummer

Senior Member
Right now I'm a Sophmore in highschool.. I've been playing in bands basically since I started playing about 2 years ago.. My dad always said to find something you love, get paid to do it, and you'll never have to work a day in your life.. Well i got the first part down, I just need to wwork on the second part :)... Anyways, my dream is to get paid for playing the drums and i'm just curious... what colleges have any of you been to which totally infulenced your drumming? I've thought about Berklee but I'm not sure... Any comments, thoughts, or experiences about selecting a college to puruse music?
 
College is great. I wouldn't discount it at all. However, if you live near a big city, I think you should begin meeting some pros in your area (if you're in L.A. or NYC that would be cool) and picking their brains about what it takes to get to the second half of your equation. Enrolling in a school and learning is one thing, but being a person trying to make ends meet while slugging it out in the real world is another. You should talk with those people who are actually doing it and see if its a lifestyle you really want, because it's a hard life. The rewards are good and I love it, but I certainly went through times when I asked if it was all worth it.

Two people you should contact here would be bermuda and Joe Morris, both of those guys work all the time. I would suggest you pick their brains.

Think of it this way: if you wanted to open a restaurant and be successful, the best person to learn that from would be the successful restaurant owner, not necessarily the place he went to school and got his degree from.

I hope that makes sense. Good luck!
 
Think of it this way: if you wanted to open a restaurant and be successful, the best person to learn that from would be the successful restaurant owner, not necessarily the place he went to school and got his degree from.

Agreed. Just because you go to the C.I.A.* doesn't mean you're ready to open a restaurant, or even get a position at an existing restaurant.

Schools teaching the 'arts' are great for personal development in the craft, whether it's music, cooking, acting, etc. But a degree from such institutions doesn't carry the same weight that a degree from medical or law school does.

Berklee has an excellent reputation for learning, and an impressive number of musicians passed through there... but nobody got a gig just because they were a Berklee grad. They had to audition along with everyone else who didn't got to college. Sometimes they got the gig, sometimes they didn't. But the degree istelf doesn't have anything to do with it.

Music school is great for personal growth, but you still have to go out and pound the pavement with everyone else. That degree gives you little of no edge when it comes to getting work, unless you are interested in teaching, in which case other schooling and degrees may be required. In fact, in some cases, musicians who graduate from schools are viewed as over-educated, and other musicians are hesitant to ask them to audition. In its defense, Berklee is regarded quite a bit higher than local schools. Graduating from there is a feather in one's cap of growth. The local schools tend to turn out a bunch of kids who think they know it all and are ready to take over the world with their amazing playing.

Bermuda

* The Culinary Institute of America is the Berklee of cooking schools.
 
What if you want to work in a top military band, or on broadway, or audition for a symphony orchestra, or at a major theme park or teach for a DCI drum corps? If you don't have a degree from an institution you'll never have a chance at any of the above situations. There is a lot more to the music world then being in the right place at the right time and playing with a popular band. I know several full time professional players. All have degrees and advanced degrees from colleges.
 
What if you want to work in a top military band, or on broadway, or audition for a symphony orchestra, or at a major theme park or teach for a DCI drum corps? If you don't have a degree from an institution you'll never have a chance at any of the above situations. There is a lot more to the music world then being in the right place at the right time and playing with a popular band. I know several full time professional players. All have degrees and advanced degrees from colleges.

I would only disagree with theme park, they seem to allow anyone to audition.

To my knowledge you need to be in the military to be in a military band.

My friend "teaches" a DCI drum corp and he is still on college. Of course he is getting a music degree.

Orchestra, Broadway, and Institutions are the only place it seems that degrees are 100% mandatory.

I am getting a math degree, but I take lessons, and perform in three to four bands on campus. I am not getting the big bucks, but I still am competent enough to play for some sort of payment.
 
Orchestra, Broadway, and Institutions are the only place it seems that degrees are 100% mandatory.

A degree isn't necessary to audition for orchestras (although union membership is required) and broadway shows don't require a degree either, typically only union membership as well. Someone going to Berklee is probably not looking for either situation anyway.

The only time a degree matters is if you're going to teach at an accredited school, and I'm not sure a Berklee diploma is the correct credential for colleges and universities. That would be interesting to find out though. Anybody know any college or university music teachers who got their job with only a Berklee diploma?

Bermuda
 
A degree isn't necessary to audition for orchestras (although union membership is required) and broadway shows don't require a degree either, typically only union membership as well. Someone going to Berklee is probably not looking for either situation anyway.

The only time a degree matters is if you're going to teach at an accredited school, and I'm not sure a Berklee diploma is the correct credential for colleges and universities. That would be interesting to find out though. Anybody know any college or university music teachers who got their job with only a Berklee diploma?

Bermuda

Good to know. With the unions come lock outs though. Like the MN orchestra.

My percussion instructor's friend has made some $$ renting out his studio space and instruments to the percussionists so they can practice.
 
Good to know. With the unions come lock outs though. Like the MN orchestra.

Well, unions certainly have pros & cons. Oh, heh... that's pretty funny!

Truth be told, union wages aren't very good in many situations. Any benefits come from retirement pension (assuming you did a lot of union dates in your career) and the occasional necessary protection from (supposedly) unscrupulous people or venues. But, there really aren't many union gigs anymore, just orchestral, shows, some sessions.

The AFM doesn't have quite the grip on the music industry the way SAG-AFTRA does with movies & TV. I'm a member of both unions, and I wonder if it's really worth the annual dues (about $400 total.) Seriously, if all of my gigs were union scale, I'd have to get a day job.

Bermuda
 
What if you want to work in a top military band, or on broadway, or audition for a symphony orchestra, or at a major theme park or teach for a DCI drum corps? If you don't have a degree from an institution you'll never have a chance at any of the above situations. There is a lot more to the music world then being in the right place at the right time and playing with a popular band. I know several full time professional players. All have degrees and advanced degrees from colleges.

This is always such a semi-heated topic. I don't think Bermuda and I are poo-poo-ing the argument that you should go to college. All I said was that you should look to the working successful players and find out what they did to get where they are. If you're really convinced that you need to go to college and have that degree, then don't let what I say stop you, go get one! But I think there are too many young people who automatically go from high school to music school blindly, accrue the debt it takes to do so, and then find out later that being a 'business' is much different from being a good player. I'm just saying I think everyone should have an open mind and open their eyes. College tuition is expensive in case you haven't noticed. And as I recall, it was in the news last year that 100,000 law school graduates could not find a job as a lawyer - so if it's tough for them, what do you think it'll be like for the music school graduate? There are people with J.D. degrees working as baristas at Starbucks.

Yes, people in orchestras, or playing shows, and even in the military, will most likely have a degree. But have you looked at the number of jobs available compared to the number of music school students? The last show I auditioned for at Disney had two drummer spots open - over 150 drummers showed up! Many had college degrees, alot more didn't. I didn't make the the second call-back, and I'm already in there, with a comfortable life of my own.

College is expensive (like any worthwhile endeavour). But what gets me is that people continue to take on the debt to do it, without a clear plan of getting to do what they studied for. Granted, doctors and lawyers study for that one thing and up until now, many of them get to do what they want, but alot of that is changing too. I've always looked at it like this: if I give someone $75,000 for a music degree, then that must mean I get to make my living as a musician. If it doesn't end up that way, I'd be really pissed off. It would be interesting to see some class action lawsuit against universities that sold people on music degrees, and these people sued for their money back because they aren't doing what they paid for, eh?

And before someone counters with "I can teach" - I'll say that's great. But that's not why you went to music school. You went because you wanted to be a player, right? We all want to be the next Dave Weckl, or Steve Gadd, or Michael Brecker, or.... right? Playing is what attracted us in the first place. I didn't enroll in music school because I wanted to teach. When it was suggested that I begin working on things for a music education degree, that's when I went somewhere else academically. I came to play.

I know, I shouldn't sound so angry about it. Just talk to those who are doing it and successful at it, and see if that's the way you want to go. Apparently, there's no guarantee in anything.
 
I agree with what Bo and Bermuda have been saying. I would highly recommend that you start researching what you would want to do with a music degree and talk to as many professional drummers as possible. Take a trip to nashville, LA, NY (if you are in the states) and talk to guys who are doing it everyday and see what it's really like. Much more on the business side to deal with than you would imagine. It's not just all the prestige and glamour of being on stage.

One of the the worship leaders for our church is in the midst of record deal contracts in Nashville with his band and man what a pain in the butt! The frustrations of contract negotiations, traveling for writing sessions 2- 3 times a month ( and the contract isn't done yet), lawyers, dealing with CEO's and the like. As I listen to him talk about it I think to myself "and that's what I wanted so bad years ago, glad at this point it didn't happen" Not sure I'd enjoy playing as much.
 
I can't agree with you guys here

Berklee has a fantastic music business program that is highly respected in the industry aside from its musical instrument programs

the networking with other musicians at an institution like that is far superior to networking out in the streets for someone his age because everyone is in the same boat, cutting their teeth and wanting to get out and work .....not already working with the "hey pay your dues kid" attitude that this guy would experience hitting the pavement.

Boston is one of the great music cities in the country.
live music every night of the week all over the city and people actually go out to see live music and appreciate it without any previous knowledge of the acts on the bill
every club is packed every night because it is a young city
35 years old is ancient in that city

the local radio stations like KROQ etc. support all the local bands and musicians and actually spin their music unlike LA and NYC .....

I know multiple players who have been hired for tours, recording sessions, and theatre such as Blue Man Group based strictly on their Berklee education .....with no audition necessary
and a couple who also got a ton of work from recommendations of instructors at Berklee .
also know one guy who is currently a sound man on a major stadium tour due to recommendations from people he met at Berklee

they key is to graduate

a ton of people get accepted to Berklee......not a high percentage of those accepted actually graduate

that title of Berklee graduate is held in higher regard than you guys are giving credit for

if the opportunity is there go for it

you cannot compare having the education and all the networking and Boston music scene involved with just winging it in some city while waiting tables and possibly failing and having nothing to fall back on

the actual education is only part of the benefit of attending the school........the people you meet ...students and instructors alike will never be bad connects to have in your cell phone.......not to mention all the great indi labels, indie record stores, radio stations, clubs and club owners, promoters, and plethora of Boston bands

it is a very faithful vibrant city and a fantastic stepping stone for somewhere like LA and NYC

I have lived in all three cities and none have musical loyalty like Boston

great grounds for learning the ropes
 
If it was easy to make a living playing, like it used to be 25 30 years ago and back, I'd be all for going to college. But it's not like that anymore. I would hate to have to play a gig I didn't like just because I needed the money. Money taints music IMO. I'm happier when I can pick and choose who I want to play with rather than it being an economic necessity.

Besides, you don't make jack playing music. Really, the money is horrible for 99% of us. It's easier and more profitable to make your money doing something else, while building your reputation one gig at a time. If you must go to school, I would be concurrently entrenching yourself in your local scene. That is just as valuable as going to school in a lot of respects. You have to play in front of people who are going to hire you. When you are a good player, people talk and you get sought out. Mainly, you have to be out there slogging it out and playing gigs, and getting face time, and being a staple in your local scene. When your playing jobs start to rival your money making thing, then maybe it's time to switch over 100%. If that even happens.

Too much of a good thing is not a good thing. All music all the time drives me crazy. I'm glad I have a regular thing where I can work hard, then when I get to play drums, it's such a welcome release, yea.

Let's break it down. What is the main compelling reason to go to school? The degree, right? Are you planning on needing that degree, or do you just think you need one to work? Because you absolutely don't need a degree to work. Learn to read. Learn to sight read. Go on auditions. Everything you want to know can be learned without going into debt for a hundred grand or whatever. Just seek out great teachers, and get as much experience playing as you can. That degree is really a huge bill that needs to be repaid.

Learn learn learn for sure. Not against learning, perish the thought. I am against going into major debt for something you may not need. If college was only 5 grand, this would be a stupid discussion.
 
Berklee has a fantastic music business program that is highly respected in the industry aside from its musical instrument programs

I'm not suggesting that Berklee and other schools aren't beneficial for development. Quite the contrary, there's a tremendous amount to be learned.

What I am saying is that degrees don't guarantee the musician an edge in real world situations.

I know multiple players who have been hired for tours, recording sessions, and theatre such as Blue Man Group based strictly on their Berklee education .....with no audition necessary

I am VERY surprised by this. The only drummers I know of who can (usually) bypass the audition process are those who trade on their name and track record, not the school they went to. Will check with my Blue Man sources - old and new - and see if they've ever hired from the outside without an audition.

Bermuda
 
I'm not suggesting that Berklee and other schools aren't beneficial for development. Quite the contrary, there's a tremendous amount to be learned.

What I am saying is that degrees don't guarantee the musician an edge in real world situations.



I am VERY surprised by this. The only drummers I know of who can (usually) bypass the audition process are those who trade on their name and track record, not the school they went to. Will check with my Blue Man sources - old and new - and see if they've ever hired from the outside without an audition.

Bermuda


Hari Hassan was this particular Blue Man drummers name

...and of course the degree alone will not get you work .....but it does not hurt

bottom line

I personally know probably close to twenty Berklee grads.....every one of them is working constantly........all over the world
some of my close friends who are grads are on Broadway, off Broadway, Vegas shows, national tours etc etc .....most of them making killer money

I know probably 200 musicians who are non Berklee grads ...good players....who are electricians, house painters, school teachers, etc......all fine careers....but just about every one of them hates their job and plays the club scene on the weekends

a close friend Warren is the touring sound man for Linkin Park, Kesha, and Adam Lambert .......got the gigs through an old Berklee connection

another close friend who graduated Berklee in the audio program got a gig doing sound as an assistant on an Usher tour through a Berklee connection ........while on the tour their pyro guy fell ill .......then due to his pyrotechnic background ....his family owns the world champion Garden State Fireworks.......he was the back up pyro technician ........
ever since then he is the full time pyro guy on every Jennfier Lopez tour, every Usher tour, and he has worked for KISS
he is out with JLO as we speak and as soon as he gets home he leaves with Usher

so every person I know that attended Berklee is a complete success story ......and everyone else is either doing ok or struggling to pay their bills

I am only speaking from my experiences and facts that I know of
 
I'm not saying Berklee or other schools hurt a person's development, I'm saying that a degree alone is not the path to a career in music. I know more than a few pros here in L.A. and Nashville, and I'm not aware that any of them are grads of Berklee or any other schools of music.

Sure Vinnie was a Berklee grad, but I guarantee he still had to stand in line to audition with Zappa.

All I'm saying to the OP is that Berklee is great for learning, but don't go there expecting that a degree will guarantee a career in music. It's one of those fields that just doesn't work the way most "professional" careers and their respective education processes work.

Bermuda
 
I'm not saying Berklee or other schools hurt a person's development, I'm saying that a degree alone is not the path to a career in music. I know more than a few pros here in L.A. and Nashville, and I'm not aware that any of them are grads of Berklee or any other schools of music.

Sure Vinnie was a Berklee grad, but I guarantee he still had to stand in line to audition with Zappa.

All I'm saying to the OP is that Berklee is great for learning, but don't go there expecting that a degree will guarantee a career in music. It's one of those fields that just doesn't work the way most "professional" careers and their respective education processes work.

Bermuda

totally understand

and I agree with everything you are saying

but I don't understand why some would go out of their way to discourage a high school kid from getting a proper education

a degree does not guarantee anyone anything but a piece of paper with your name on it ......but in no way could being educated hurt his chances of being a working musician and furthering himself as a player
 
but I don't understand why some would go out of their way to discourage a high school kid from getting a proper education

I've certainly never discouraged anyone from growing in whatever way they can. But I think it's only fair to advise someone that going to a music school because they think getting that degree is the path to a career in music, that it's really not going to carry the weight they imagine it will. They still have to jump through the same hoops along with everyone who didn't get a degree.

If they've learned well and know how to apply those skills in musical situations, then it will pay off in terms of passing auditions and establishing the kind of reputation that eventually results in bypassing that process (read: Vinnie.)

Bermuda
 
Any degree in any field does not guarantee any person any work!

I'm familiar with students borrowing $400,000.+ for various kinds of business degrees who may likely never earn it back. Music is no different except one could say there may be fewer jobs overall. Some positions may require one and many do not.

I say if you have the money and the desire knowing the real world situation, then regardless of field of study go for it. Just let it be a well informed decision, not one purely based on emotions.

To the OP: if you are serious about shopping private schools, you may or may not want to include Eastman School of Music on the list .
 
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To the OP: if you are serious about shopping private schools, you may or may not want to include Eastman School of Music on the list .

The one and only. That placed has produced some of the most important names in the percussion world....... the musical world actually......

Great schools put you in a position to be learning along side great musicians who turn out to be in positions to hire people in the future.
 
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