A&F Drums @ NAMM - uh oh ?

No surprise in there being a "Soultone" input to the noise ban...they have a bit of history at other trade shows.....

As for A&F, just random average stuff at extortionate prices for well-heeled hipsters, the OCDP of 2018.....it'll pass.....

Mick
 
I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?
 
NAMM seemed to be especially loud this year, and I didn't see the noise police once. Many guilty booths, mostly the smaller companies.

Probably not the loudest show, but Saturday and especially Thursday for some reason were right up there. It's just about always the smaller companies that are the worst offenders.

Re A&F, I stopped by their booth, before the show so I could hear what all the buzz is about, and I didn't think their drums sounded good at all. They have the retro look, but that seems to be the extent of the appeal. Nobody with a set of ears could really think they'd be usable. That was my observation last year as well.

Bermuda
 
Probably not the loudest show, but Saturday and especially Thursday for some reason were right up there. It's just about always the smaller companies that are the worst offenders.

Re A&F, I stopped by their booth, before the show so I could hear what all the buzz is about, and I didn't think their drums sounded good at all. They have the retro look, but that seems to be the extent of the appeal. Nobody with a set of ears could really think they'd be usable. That was my observation last year as well.

Bermuda

I agree that some of it is kinda out there, like the pancake snare or ginormous 22 inch snoms or a 4x6 brass snare (https://www.anfdrumco.com/collections/snare-drums/products/4x6-raw-brass-snare), but the regular raw brass 14x5 is very useable as much as any other high-end brass or cob out there and can do lower tunings better than most.

I think at some point it extends beyond regular drumming and goes into newer trends in percussive arts, or targeted towards that crowd. I have also heard good things about their drum kits as well. They sound good on youtube, but they are priced way up there with other high-end kitS. Why not give the new guy a chance, I guess is what I am saying.
 
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I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?

I think the thing is, NAMM has become sort of a circus over the ensuing decades. Because so many "non-industry" types are allowed to attend (like me), the prevailing modus operandi has become that this is now the world's biggest Guitar Center blowfest ever.

There used to be a time when only buyers and serious industry professionals attended (from what I'm told from some old timers). Vendors and Buyers wore suits and serious business is made. The whole idea behind the trade show is not for the general public to be allowed to come in and make as much noise as they can, but it's so vendors can meet buyers so the vendors can stock the buyers with product to sell in their stores.

When I went into both the Pearl and Gretsch rooms on the second floor, there was a display area, but also a walled-off section where they could attend to business in a private atmosphere, and both of those rooms were quieter than normal. Some of the bigger vendors on the main showroom floor had their own little encampments where they could conduct business while all the noise was being made outside.

I admit, I do like being able to visit a vendor and try a product, or talk about it. I don't need to play it very loudly or give a clinic demonstration - it's not about that. But most people come in with their own sticks and hit everything in site. I don't bring sticks (score one for me) as I can see what the product is and know how it will sound, so I've never understood the urge to do a full blown try-out of anything at a trade show. If you want something new, take note of it, and then go to your local dealer when you get home to order it for you when it's available, right? When you get it home, then give it a full test, when you can actually hear it and concentrate on what you're doing.

So I can understand shutting down somebody's booth to make a point. NAMM does not exist for people to try stuff. It exists for buyers (a different badge) to buy from exhibitors (another different badge). I think next year, rather than have my badge say "Exhibitor Artist", I should change it to "Nobody", because the vendors don't want to talk to me - I'm not buying anything!
 
They sound good on youtube, but they are priced way up there with other high-end kitS. Why not give the new guy a chance, I guess is what I am saying.

A lot of things sound better on YouTube than they do in person.

I keep my eyes, ears and mind open, and happily give new companies and ideas a chance and a critical but unbiased look. I occasionally discover something that's an improvement over what I'm using, or a brand new sound, or maybe a useful accessory, and typically begin using it.

The chance that A&F gets is at NAMM, where their product is supposed to entice store owners to stock it. Basically, because the product is new to the MI scene, they need to try even harder. This is two years in a row that their gear just didn't sound good to me. (I believe this is only their second NAMM show.)

Perhaps when they drums are tuned, and not being beaten into submission, they're okay. I just haven't found that to be the case.

Bermuda
 
Speaking of being beaten into submission, i am led to believe (by some learned members here ) that the majority of a drums sound is the heads. so therefor their drums by all accounts should be as good as any other. no?
 
Speaking of being beaten into submission, i am led to believe (by some learned members here ) that the majority of a drums sound is the heads. so therefor their drums by all accounts should be as good as any other. no?

Yes. You are correct. The horse is still very much dead.
 
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A lot of things sound better on YouTube than they do in person.

I keep my eyes, ears and mind open, and happily give new companies and ideas a chance and a critical but unbiased look. I occasionally discover something that's an improvement over what I'm using, or a brand new sound, or maybe a useful accessory, and typically begin using it.

The chance that A&F gets is at NAMM, where their product is supposed to entice store owners to stock it. Basically, because the product is new to the MI scene, they need to try even harder. This is two years in a row that their gear just didn't sound good to me. (I believe this is only their second NAMM show.)

Perhaps when they drums are tuned, and not being beaten into submission, they're okay. I just haven't found that to be the case.

Bermuda

You are entirely correct, and we are on the same page. I would love to try a kit and a couple of snares but last time I went to a retailer they were sold out.

Being curious, I watched a clip and I think they sound pretty decent and I feel like this is a pretty honest capture if I may borrow the term : https://youtu.be/Q0V-mMfo720.

I dont think these could ever be mass-produced anyways, and for that price there are plenty other offerings that may in the long term uphold their resale value better, then again I can't foresee the future.

My soft spot for small businesses makes me want them to succeed, and I give them credit for their imagination and innovation in a pretty conservative market.
 
I've never understood the urge to do a full blown try-out of anything at a trade show. If you want something new, take note of it, and then go to your local dealer when you get home to order it for you when it's available, right? When you get it home, then give it a full test, when you can actually hear it and concentrate on what you're doing.

Yes and no.
One can take note of a product they'd like to hear/try out, take that info to your local shop & trying it out there is a perfect plan.

But to buy it, take it home and then fully test it is not logical.
I for one don't have an extra $500 laying around to buy a snare I've been looking at just to take it home to try it. If it doesn't sound good to me in the local shop, its staying there.
 
Yes and no.
One can take note of a product they'd like to hear/try out, take that info to your local shop & trying it out there is a perfect plan.

But to buy it, take it home and then fully test it is not logical.
I for one don't have an extra $500 laying around to buy a snare I've been looking at just to take it home to try it. If it doesn't sound good to me in the local shop, its staying there.

Well, the argument is whether or not you do that at a trade show. Buyers are there to stock their stores. Vendors usually have pro players demo the stuff. It was never really meant for the general public to come through and go shopping, although that’s a cool feature.

And I still stick by my argument to actually get the product in your hands for a full demo, especially if you can’t tell by observation and physical touching how the instrument will handle in real-world situations with your heads and your tunings. Most retailers have 30-money back guarantees these days, so you could just put it on a credit card and then do your thing and take it on a gig. Subjecting patrons at a store to a drum clinic is pretty unnecessary too.
 
Most retailers have 30-money back guarantees these days, so you could just put it on a credit card and then do your thing and take it on a gig. Subjecting patrons at a store to a drum clinic is pretty unnecessary too.

I see your point. I for one got points for not bringing sticks to NAMM as I feel as you do. It's not the place to do a private clinic especially on drums.

I for one do not have the expendable income to buy a drum & try it at home. If you do, you're in an awesome place.

As there's never anyone in the drum room at my local Guitar Center (employees included), it's pretty much my own personal tryout room. They have drum keys on the counter so I can tweak the heads & play with a kit for a bit.
It's all I got for my situation.
 
I don't know, the whole thing still doesn't seem right to me.

I would assume it was guests of the convention who were banging too loudly on the drums. Why would NAMM management shut down the vendor, rather than just having their security staff tell those particularly loud-drumming guests to tone it down or leave ?

It shouldn't be up to the vendors to manage the behavior of convention guests. The vendors don't invite people to the convention, NAMM does. Vendors pay a fee to have a booth, so you'd think that security should be working with, and for, the vendors... not against them.

What am I missing here ?

A booth doesn't get shut down without multiple warnings.

And it IS the vendors that encourage the behavior by setting up full kits with pedals and letting people go wild without trying to stop anyone.

You never see the major companies get into trouble with sound violations, because they don't encourage it.

One very small booth literally had NO one in it. Just a drum set. No rep to regulate it.

Another booth, the vendors left for a while with two full kits set up, and some poorly skilled drummers were practicing as if they were at home.

The vendors buy a booth, they don't buy the right to set up a full drum kit and let anyone who thinks they're the next drum solo superstar use that as a means to show off for hours and annoy everyone who's there trying to conduct business.
 
A booth doesn't get shut down without multiple warnings.

And it IS the vendors that encourage the behavior by setting up full kits with pedals and letting people go wild without trying to stop anyone.

You never see the major companies get into trouble with sound violations, because they don't encourage it.

One very small booth literally had NO one in it. Just a drum set. No rep to regulate it.

Another booth, the vendors left for a while with two full kits set up, and some poorly skilled drummers were practicing as if they were at home.

The vendors buy a booth, they don't buy the right to set up a full drum kit and let anyone who thinks they're the next drum solo superstar use that as a means to show off for hours and annoy everyone who's there trying to conduct business.

It does kinda suck that in order to have a normal conversation or some rest means you have to leave the floor and go upstairs to an alcove. You can’t even go outside because there’s bands playing all the time.
 
Les it's just a poor vid, tuning wise.. try this one. A good reason not to trust any of these so called showcases. https://youtu.be/yM3siBc4deM they all sound different but heads will fix that. wink wink. the horse is very much head.
 
That video is MUCH better and the drums sound very clear. Not convinced its better than a vintage Sonor kit but, they are quite unique.

I,d find a way to erase that other video though, it wont help them at all.
 
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