Ideas . . . jam band endings

Liebe zeit

Liebe zeit

Silver Member
I play in a two piece, guitar and drums. We have some tunes that are fairly well scripted. But we have some that develop into quite lengthy, almost trance-y, jams. That's a good thing and we really groove when we get to that zone. But sometimes I need to get my guitarist out of that zone and force an ending, a crescendo, on things. But I'm having trouble seeing how to do that other than to change the intensity and 'wake him up' as it were, perhaps with long fills, more cymbals. If it was jazz we'd have the head-out to go to but this ain't jazz.

I think this is possibly one of those forum posts that's best answered by me listening to a load of stuff, but if anyone's been in a jam band situation and has any stock tricks for endings then I'd be v happy to hear them.
 
Ba-Dum Tush!

Then look at him pointedly.

- Reggae Mangle
 
Liebe zeit said:
... change the intensity and 'wake him up'
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I think you have to change something up if he's overstaying in the happy place - make a lot of noise, bring it down, change the texture, change the accents etc.

The final tie up, as you said, comes down to listening to the way other bands end their jams.
 
Liebe zeit said:
I play in a two piece, guitar and drums. We have some tunes that are fairly well scripted. But we have some that develop into quite lengthy, almost trance-y, jams. That's a good thing and we really groove when we get to that zone. But sometimes I need to get my guitarist out of that zone and force an ending, a crescendo, on things. But I'm having trouble seeing how to do that other than to change the intensity and 'wake him up' as it were, perhaps with long fills, more cymbals. If it was jazz we'd have the head-out to go to but this ain't jazz.

I think this is possibly one of those forum posts that's best answered by me listening to a load of stuff, but if anyone's been in a jam band situation and has any stock tricks for endings then I'd be v happy to hear them.
Click to expand...

Ya, those guitar players will noodle on that guitar forever if you let them. You have to do a force ending sometimes. Cut the time in half, perhaps, and do a slow down to a final sustained cymbal crash. That's one solution. It doesn't always work for me and then I feel like an idiot when the band doesn't follow my lead and keeps on playing. Basturds!
 
I'll put this out first there - I really don't like 'jamming' without a specified structure. I adore Jazz and particularly improvisational Jazz but that does have specified form and structure. I also love improvised Noise music; I just don't like Rock 'Jam Bands' unless they have something to offer (which they usually don't).

The important ingredient in your situation is for your guitarist to listen and respond. You'd be amazed how few musicians (drummers and guitarists in particular) listen closely and respond accordingly. Eye contact is the best solution but in all honesty, if the guitarist isn't listening then there isn't an awful lot you can do that is natural or at least not hugely jarring to the form you're playing. Listening is a high-order skill that tends to develop after learning the technical ins-and-outs of the instrument and deserves a lot more conversation than it tends to develop.

I haven't got a solution, I'm afraid - other than pointing out the above to the guitarist. Failing that, a well aimed stick at the back of the head is quite an effective means of communication...
 
How about a massive hit on one beat, and let him finis his phrase (the phrase better be within reason) and then end it with cymbal crashes etc.
 
BacteriumFendYoke said:
The important ingredient in your situation is for your guitarist to listen and respond.
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I've been in funk/rock/jazz jam bands before. If you and your band mates are musically literate enough to hear an ending coming, it isn't that hard for you to either steer the band to an ending/new section or continue with what you got. But if you're guitar player or soloist isn't attentive or willing to properly respond, then you might as well be playing two different songs -- it won't work.

I would advise you to really exaggerate endings so you get that guys attention, have him listen to quality improvisational music like jazz and try to explain how players listen/respond to musical cues. Tell him that extended solos are boring especially if you do it everytime. As Miles said: "Don't give everything away." .. meaning don't overplay and don't use up all your tricks at one time..
 
A lot of the great jam bands of the past addressed this problem by "coming back in" at the chorus or with a key riff one last time, slowing it down (ritard), and then ending with the big crash. That way you all end together and look like you planned it.

I absolutely agree with the other posters, jams are only so fun for so long for anyone other than the soloist. Might be worth having a sitdown with the offending soloist.
 
Liebe, I think this is something that can be resolved with talking to the guitarist. The guitarist is not thinking like an arranger, he's in lead guitar mode. Whereas the drummer has a totally different agenda, an overview if you will. Just explain to the guitar player that songs need peaks and valleys, and that there has to be a sense of how to incorporate an ending. Overstaying the welcome is a cardinal sin at jams. You want to get in, say what you need and get the hell out before it drones on too long. There has to be a sense of the bigger picture. Like you are all ripe for an ending and the guitarist is still stuck on the body of the song. You need to communicate to him the need for variety, meaning ups and downs, crescendo's and decrescendo's, tension/release, a sense of arrangement in a song, and a dedicated thought process as to how to end a song in a way that is smooth and welcome.

Just talk to him and when this situation arises again, he will be more likely to understand by the look on your face that you are looking to him to wrap this thing up and end it properly. He probably won't be able to read your mind on stage about this, he needs you to "educate" him offstage on the finer points of arranging. Good luck getting a guitarist to take musical pointers from the drummer.
 
Since there are only two of you, this should be easy. Talk to him about it and come up
with a variety of ways to cue and end tunes. Come up with as many as you can!
 
Liebe zeit said:
But sometimes I need to get my guitarist out of that zone and force an ending, a crescendo, on things. But I'm having trouble seeing how to do that other than to change the intensity and 'wake him up' as it were...
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Buy a water pistol. . .
 
Stop playing and get another beer, hand him one, if he doesnt stop playing find another guitar player.
 
Is it wrong my first thought was "throw lighter fluid on the drum kit, light the drum kit on fire, and walk away?"

I mean, I would never do that to a drum kit, but it would sure get his attention and drive the point home.
 
I find a good way to indicate the song is over is to stop playing. :p

Yeah, it sounds like you guys need to have a talk. The guitarist in my band and I learned how to play by jamming together, so most of the time we read each other well.

DrumEatDrum said:
Is it wrong my first thought was "throw lighter fluid on the drum kit, light the drum kit on fire, and walk away?"

I mean, I would never do that to a drum kit, but it would sure get his attention and drive the point home.
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If I ever have the money to do stuff and get famous enough, I want to end a show like this (with a cheep crap kit though!).
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. I may have overstated it with my buddy. We just needed to get together and think of some gear changes in tunes and ways to signal them. We had a great practice tonight and came up with some new arrangements. Part of it is me needing to find ways to change up and build to changes, and similar from him too.

The great success tonight was a fairly slow Levee Breaks-paced thing that we figured could change up to double time for 8 or 16 bars. It was easy-in/easy/out, me indicating the changes with fills.
 
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