Traditional Jazz Demo Clip

[DanKenton]

Here is the product of a few years of playing in a jazz band. You don't see too many of these videos around, eh? Comment freely and honestly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVrH3lE6v3k

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I don't see much jazz here. Just light fusion. The cymbal patches are pretty horrible as are the main lead parts from the sequence.

As for positives? Well, you appear to have relatively solid hand technique.

Some of the best jazz playing I've come across on this board is held on this thread:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=54965

There are other very talented jazz drummers here as well.

[Steamer]

I don't get the traditionally based jazz connection myself seems like a light fusion based conception to me.

If you want to check out something that's an extension coming from the "tradition" I put up a clip recently of a live concert performance of a original "tune based" song form piece that covers alot of the essential key elements found within a modern jazz ensemble setting. A vehicle for the drums to express many of the key elements within the jazz music in a more traditional swing based jazz concept.

Lots of stuff going on on many different levels {musically/drum wise} to help show what can be done in this type of more "traditionally" based jazz setting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0dE...er_profilepage

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by con struct

Well, I don't get the extension coming from the tradition that covers a lot of essential key elements of jazz, sorry. It seems like very basic run-of-the-mill old-fashioned lounge drumming to me.
"Lots of stuff going on on many different levels." Where?
I know you're supposed to be some kind of jazz drummer, but I'm just not hearing it. Why you imagine that you're in any position to be educating people about jazz drumming is beyond me.

You don't like me understood. If you wish to insult me or my drumming that's your right but there's more there going on than meets the eye in that clip based on a solid jazz concept to those wishing to put aside their "issues" and take a deeper look and LISTEN to what is happening in the music as presented which could be helpful to others, present company exempt obviously........

I've performed with some of the top jazz players in the world during my long pro career and have taught at numerous jazz workshops and jazz camps as well as hundreds of private students. My credibilty speaks for itself without question for those who have hired me and continue too as a jazz musician and jazz educator.

[Pollyanna]

I think this thread more belongs in the My Playing area.

Agree with others that it sounds like a jazzrock backbeat applied to music that could have been played with a traditional jazz approach.

Also agree that the pang cympal sound doesn't sound suitable for riding, at least in this style.

Conrad, I luvs ya and luvs ya work but disagree strongly with you re: Stan's playing. The man IS jazz all the way down to his toenails IMO. I guess you've had a rethink, hence the deleted post. Stuff happens, I guess.

[Boomka]

Originally Posted by Steamer

You don't like me understood. If you wish to insult me or my drumming that's your right but there's more there going on than meets the eye in that clip based on a solid jazz concept to those wishing to put aside their "issues" and take a deeper look and LISTEN to what is happening in the music as presented which could be helpful to others, present company exempt obviously........

I've performed with some of the top jazz players in the world during my long pro career and have taught at numerous jazz workshops and jazz camps as well as hundreds of private students. My credibilty speaks for itself without question for those who have hired me and continue too as a jazz musician and jazz educator.

You can please some of the people all of the time,

You can please all of the people some of the time, but

You can’t please all of the people all of the time.

I, for one, dug your playing on that clip, Stan. There's some nice interaction with the other players, and you built the tension nicely along with the guitar player. You have a bit of an unorthodox approach to your ride cymbal technique: almost backhanding it at times, but you get a nice sound and feel. More than one way to swing a cat.... The nice polyrhythm between the snare and hats on your second "four" was cool as well - you built a little tension and I was thinking "how's he getting out of this one?" and you did nicely to resolve back into the form.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Boomka

You can please some of the people all of the time,

You can please all of the people some of the time, but

You can’t please all of the people all of the time.

I, for one, dug your playing on that clip, Stan. There's some nice interaction with the other players, and you built the tension nicely along with the guitar player. You have a bit of an unorthodox approach to your ride cymbal technique: almost backhanding it at times, but you get a nice sound and feel. More than one way to swing a cat.... The nice polyrhythm between the snare and hats on your second "four" was cool as well - you built a little tension and I was thinking "how's he getting out of this one?" and you did nicely to resolve back into the form.

What gets me as an older pro jazz veteran i'm still considered a rebel and trouble maker by the straight ahead purist on the Canadian scene by many especially in the town I reside in. That's why I said take a closer "listen" to the dialogue i'm having with myself and the other players in this type of tune based/swing song form ensemble situation.

All is not as old fashioned, same old same old or being lounge like jazz wise as it first may first appear :}

[Pollyanna]

Dan, the problems that blossomed in this thread came about through your use of the word "traditional".

What you played was skillful, but your approach was not traditional jazz drumming, more "traditional jazzrock" if there's such a thing. When I think of traditional jazz drumming it's spangalang spangalang (on the ride, not China or pang) with light LH comping - usually no backbeat apart from occasional rim sticking.

[mrmike]

I hear some great things from your clip. Overall a nice feel and some nice snare comping and decent technique. The electronic cymbals are probably not ideal for this type of music, especially the china's where the ride did give the music a better feel. I think you clearly have a lot of natural ability and are on the right track. Just keep recording yourself and concentrate on what you think needs improving.

[mattsmith]

Originally Posted by con struct
Well, I don't get the extension coming from the tradition that covers a lot of essential key elements of jazz, sorry. It seems like very basic run-of-the-mill old-fashioned lounge drumming to me. "Lots of stuff going on on many different levels." Where?
I know you're supposed to be some kind of jazz drummer, but I'm just not hearing it. Why you imagine that you're in any position to be educating people about jazz drumming is beyond me.

Hey Stan,

As you know I live in Europe now and was playing last week with this jazz hack named Chick Corea. Maybe you've heard of him. He claims he used to have a band called Return to something or another and did some free lance piano playing with a trumpet player named Miles somebody. Well, he told me he liked my playing. I replied by saying I didn't understand because a guy on a drum forum named con struct and a handful of his pals say I have the musicality of a barnyard animal.

I would accept the above comments with honor.

Gotta go/ great to see everybody.

[Steamer]

No worries Matt.........just got my 2 previous two year cymbal and drum endorsement contracts extended into their 2nd terms recently and my happy face and detailed resume can be seen in the artist profile section on a large international drum manufacters web site this week.

Must {have} been doing something right I figure as a pro level acoustic jazz player/educator over the last 34 years............ :}

Great to hear you hooked up with Chick and things are going great for you. Bravo!

[brittc89]

Wow, this thread devolved into literally nothing. B-b-b-bravo everybody. Now it looks like this guy is gone, his video is removed, and honestly, he didnt really receive any comments that could help him improve. I think this thread needs wiped clean.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by brittc89

Wow, this thread devolved into literally nothing. B-b-b-bravo everybody. Now it looks like this guy is gone, his video is removed, and honestly, he didnt really receive any comments that could help him improve. I think this thread needs wiped clean.

Some us of wanted to steer him in a jazz direction or understanding of the confusion from the thread title, your playing included as a reference point included. Since the clip is now gone to view for yourself you wouldn't fully understand the confusion over the traditional jazz demo clip reference and following posts because of it. The potential for a far better engagement on the subkect with the original poster was quickly derailed and cut short by what was posted shortly into it and the ensuing fallout from it to the original discussion because of it.

[brittc89]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Some us of wanted to steer him in a jazz direction or understanding of the confusion from the thread title, your playing included as a reference point included. Since the clip is gone you wouldn't fully understand the confusion over the traditional jazz demo clip reference and following posts because of it. The potential for a far better engagement on the subkect with the original poster was derailed and cut short by what was posted shortly into it and the ensuing fallout from the original discussion because of it.

Im quite aware of that Stan, I just thinks its a shame when things happen like that. I just see it more than I wish I did here. Lots of vendettas, I read the construct comments, and I understand that they pushed the conversation somewhere that was completely unwarranted. But no matter the case, Im not a big fan of what happened and Im sure you arent as well.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by brittc89

Im quite aware of that Stan, I just thinks its a shame when things happen like that. I just see it more than I wish I did here. Lots of vendettas, I read the construct comments, and I understand that they pushed the conversation somewhere that was completely unwarranted. But no matter the case, Im not a big fan of what happened and Im sure you arent as well.

No kidding..... we're in FULL agreement on that Britt.

[bobdadruma]

OH NO! NOT AGAIN! I hate when this happens!
Hi Matt, How the fridge are ya?
Haven't seen you around in a while.

[Pollyanna]

Content of the thread:

Riding the the China in that song didn't work
Decent technique and nice feel but it's not traditional jazz drumming
Some thoughts on what traditional jazz drumming entails
Some links / recommendations to traditional jazz drumming vids
Stan is not good - x 1
Stan is good - x many
Analysis of parts of Stan's techniques
Chick Corea does not think Matt has the musicality of a cow.

Lots of stuff here :)

[bobdadruma]

I wish that I had seen the OPs vid.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

I wish that I had seen the OPs vid.

You really, really don't.

[bobdadruma]

Poor guy only made two posts! Just joined on 10-29

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

Poor guy only made two posts! Just joined on 10-29

And promptly disappears when he can't take honest opinion.

What I find funny was how he built up the clip. I was expecting to hear some decent swing or at least bop. All we got were some horrible cymbal patches and awful, awful flute leads. God. My ears are in meltdown still.

[Pollyanna]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

I wish that I had seen the OPs vid.

Just imagine smooth jazz, kinda like it was the Kenny G of flute. Bounced mid tempo number. It could have been played in the traditional jazz way, especially when there was a walking bassline, but the guy played it as a swung funk backbeat.

His played with nice feel. If the thread had been called "Smooth jazz" instead of "Traditional jazz" about the only negative comments would have been about the faux China.

Ya gotta be careful with your genre labels when around musos!

[bobdadruma]

I guess that it went wrong when Steamer and con struct went at it.
It was good to hear from Matt though!

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

I guess that it went wrong when Steamer and con struct went at it.
It was good to hear from Matt though!

Just for the record on this smelly mess once and for all............

Bob I didn't go "at it" with anyone my friend. I was full on blindsided and insulted in the worse way when offering something more in the vain of traditional jazz drumming and music for the original thread poster to check out. Then I had to defend myself and mention my credentials and years of pro experience on the subject being jazz and jazz drumming for the sake of my good name that I have earned the upfront honest way from hard work from my many years of pro experience both as a jazz player and jazz educator and the earned respect with that I have by many in that regard in the greater jazz community... attacker exempt from respecting those acomplishments noted obviously.

[bobdadruma]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Just for the record on this smelly mess once and for all............

Bob I didn't go "at it" with anyone my friend. I was full on blindsided and insulted in the worse way when offering something more in the vain of traditional jazz drumming and music for the original thread poster to check out. Then I had to defend myself and mention my credentials and years of pro experience on the subject being jazz and jazz drumming for the sake of my good name that I have earned the upfront honest way from hard work from my many years of pro experience both as a jazz player and jazz educator and the earned respect with that I have by many in that regard in the greater jazz community... attacker exempt from respecting those acomplishments noted obviously.

I didn't blame you Stan, I didn't mean my comments in that manor. Sorry if it came out that way! I saw what happened. I should have chosen different words for my post.
I hope that DanKenton returns. I was put out by the way that his thread was hijacked.

DanKenton, Come on back! Put your vid back up and let constructive criticism work for you. I've had myself criticized, (my drumming butt kicked) many times in the past! I lived through it and I became a better player for it. It's just a matter of paying some dues.

[con struct]

Originally Posted by mattsmith

As you know I live in Europe now and was playing last week with this jazz hack named Chick Corea. Maybe you've heard of him. He claims he used to have a band called Return to something or another and did some free lance piano playing with a trumpet player named Miles somebody. Well, he told me he liked my playing. I replied by saying I didn't understand because a guy on a drum forum named con struct and a handful of his pals say I have the musicality of a barnyard animal.

Now...what? A barnyard animal? I said that?
And please, call me Conrad. How do you like Europe? I'm moving back there in about a year. Back to the old country, where beer is actually beer.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by bobdadruma

I didn't blame you Stan, I didn't mean my comments in that manor. Sorry if it came out that way! I saw what happened. I should have chosen different words for my post.
I hope that DanKenton returns. I was put out by the way that his thread was hijacked.

DanKenton, Come on back! Put your vid back up and let constructive criticism work for you. I've had myself criticized, (my drumming butt kicked) many times in the past! I lived through it and I became a better player for it. It's just a matter of paying some dues.

No worries Bob you're a good guy. Just wanted to clear the air on my point of view which still remains a nasty sore point for me for the serious level of complete disrepect I recieved right out of the blue considering what I have done with my {jazz} life from one singular forum individual which caused the thread to turn into a complete utter mess.

For the record I don't like to see anyone leave or feel like what they have to offer is not worthy of a healthy debate for coming to a better understanding after we throw some ideas around regarding what was offered. That's how WE ALL learn and grow as people. Just unfortunate that the word RESPECT isn't a part of ALL forum members vocabulary on this place.