Who plays jazz here?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

Like you said, that's it in a nutshell.

I remember reading an interview years ago with Louie Armstrong where he said that in the early days, he played so much that the songs were not improvised after a while. Playing night after night, he found what worked. I think that even the idea of exploration can become cliche, and I have sat in on nights where guys are playing and it just sounds like they're making it up as they go along. I would wonder of that is part of the genius of guys like Coltrane and Dolphy. They get to a point where it is exploration and not just "making it up as you go along." Are they in touch with some stream of musical creativity, Streamer? :)

There's a word for for it Deltadrummer that you college educators would know:} It's ties into the process of creative consciousness and endless flow ... almost a zen like meditative state in a musical improvisational setting. Just can't remember the specific word for it.

Jack Dejohnette mentioned this "state" and mental process going on regarding improvisation in a interview once that made perfect sense they way he put it at the time.

Zakir Hussian appears to be in this "state" everytime I hear him sitting behind his tablas:}

[volvoguy]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

Like you said, that's it in a nutshell.

I remember reading an interview years ago with Louie Armstrong where he said that in the early days, he played so much that the songs were not improvised after a while. Playing night after night, he found what worked. I think that even the idea of exploration can become cliche, and I have sat in on nights where guys are playing and it just sounds like they're making it up as they go along. I would wonder of that is part of the genius of guys like Coltrane and Dolphy. They get to a point where it is exploration and not just "making it up as you go along." Are they in touch with some stream of musical creativity, Streamer? :)

I dunno if it's exactly "exploration"... The great explorers found the America's (even though the indians had not lost them - Garrison Keillor), we don't revisit the America's and say, "Wow. That just really good. You went west.... and ran aground."

"Exploration" implies finding something. Once it's found, its found... 40 years later you don't say, "Holy Crap! Stuff that works!" That's the thing about Coltrane (and his quartet/quintet): It's timeless. The term "exploration" doesn't really apply. It's something completely and totally (pardon the pun) "spiritual". Perhaps even transcendental. Maybe that *is* exploration.... but not necessarily in music... that's exploration in something more primal.

-Ryan

[Deltadrummer]

You managed to pick the two words I was trying to stay away from, "transcendental" and "spiritual." :)

"Transcendental" has an aesthetic and philosophical connotation. "Spiritual" has a religious one to it.

[aydee]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

You managed to pick the two words I was trying to stay away from, "transcendental" and "spiritual." :)

How about transmorgification? Where is Jeff Indyke when you need him..

Stan,

Zakir & Jack get hotwired to the spirits of the universe, their minds & bodies get taken over by alien powers and then what they play is not their own.. they are just the conducters..

more zen anyone?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by aydee

How about transmorgification? Where is Jeff Indyke when you need him..

Stan,

Zakir & Jack get hotwired to the spirits of the universe, their minds & bodies get taken over by alien powers and then what they play is not their own.. they are just the conducters..

more zen anyone?

Boy this going in an interesting direction aydee?

The word i'm trying to come up with describes the uninterrupted creative flow of consciousness/ideas. experienced by painters, musicians,writers {not jazz writers:} } etc.. on a serious note without trying to sound like new age kind of guy :}

Man I don't know about all this other-worldly spiritual stuff.
When I play I'm just playing the music I play. Just like any drummer.
Just because it's jazz doesn't mean there's some higher power or something involved. It's just drumming, isn't it?

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by jay norem

Man I don't know about all this other-worldly spiritual stuff.
When I play I'm just playing the music I play. Just like any drummer.
Just because it's jazz doesn't mean there's some higher power or something involved. It's just drumming, isn't it?

Of coarse not but the train of thought and state that certainly takes place in the action of playing on the spot improvising and a flow of ideas related to that process seems to have been completely derailed at this point now. Brian Blade talkes about this too in the the new MD interview about being "connected" to the music in a certain special way without "thinking" about what your actually playing. So much for a serious discussion and possibly learning something of value in the process.

I'll retire now to reading my tea leaves...

[aydee]

Originally Posted by Steamer

Boy this going in an interesting direction aydee?

The word i'm trying to come up with describes the creative flow of consciousness/ideas. experienced by painters, musicians,writers {not jazz writers:} } etc.. on a serious note.

I could'nt agree more, Stan. I, on occasion have been a Zakir groupie. I've hung with him through an afternoon shopping spree in Manhattan, met up with old friends in a cafe, exchanging ribald jokes etc etc.. regular guys doing regular things
..all the way through to the evening gig.

Suddenly15 minutes before he gets up on stage, he's suddenly not there. His mind is a million miles away, he's got a glazed look on his face, people talk to him and he isn't listening.

Once on stage, he almost gets prayerful & very meditative. He reverts to earth for an instant, because he's never happy with the sound guys, so he'll adjust the sound.. and then back into the bubble..

And yes, I've seen this with many many great musicians to know that that's the real deal. The golden fleece of music.

Heck, I've experienced it twice or thrice in my own playing. When what is flowing out is kinda happening on its own, and its incredible... and its almost like you've got nothing to do with it.. and you are sort of watching your body playing this music, and you cant really believe it you.

[Deltadrummer]

[quote=Steamer;446476]Boy this going in an interesting direction aydee?

The word i'm trying to come up with describes the uninterrupted creative flow of consciousness/ideas. experienced by painters, musicians,writers {not jazz writers:} } etc.. on a serious note without trying to sound like new age kind of guy :}[/QUOT


I was thinking 'trance state;' but that leads to transcendental and the idea the you are transcending, getting in touch with something that is above what exists but is already there, as opposed to where nothing exists, to get out of your own sense of being and create something new. Are you ever getting out of your own sense of idealistic self-awareness? Can you?

This is something I have been working towards in my drumming for the last few years. When I listen to music, I can hear what I think the drummer could be doing that would sound nice. But when I play it is a different story, and to enter into the objectivity of a listener detracts from the creative flow of my playing. When I listen, I am making aesthetic judgments. When I am playing, I am 'making' creative ideas. It's the difference between thinking vs. creating or knowledge vs. imagination, aesthetics vs. impulse or theory vs. practice. Einstein comes to mind.

[aydee]

For the cynics amongst us, a dryer way of expressing the same thing would be 'to connect with the music in more than a physical sense'. Physical being playing and hearing.

[Steamer]

Till I find the exact word I have in mind here's a great quote by Brian Blade in the current MD interview that ties into the discussion at hand and the process i'm trying to get at:

"If i'm thinking when i'm on the bandstand, I know i'm in trouble"

Brilliant quote...

[Deltadrummer]

It is about listening, isn't it? Playing in rock bands I found that I could never really listen. And if you have to plug your ears, you can't hear anything around you. That's why I got out of rock drumming. If you can't hear, you can't play, you can't create. Again, it's hearing vs. listening like Abe said, or playing vs. feeling, or perhaps feeling vs. sensing. I'm really into these dichotomies tonight. :)

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by Deltadrummer

It is about listening, isn't it? Playing in rock bands I found that I could never really listen. And if you have to plug your ears, you can't hear anything around you. That's why I got out of rock drumming. If you can't hear, you can't play, you can't create. Again, it's hearing vs. listening like Abe said, or playing vs. feeling, or perhaps feeling vs. sensing. I'm really into these dichotomies tonight. :)

Yes indeed it is.

One more Brian Blade quote from the MD interview and it's off to bed for me . 2 back to back gigs tomorrow to rest up for.

Here it is:

"I want to make sure that the band makes a statement,collectively. My part within it is just that, a part of the whole."


Serious listening sure plays an important part in that process...

[aydee]

"What Passion cannot MUSIC raise and quell!

When Jubal struck the corded Shell, His list'ning Brethren stood around And wond'ring on their Faces fell To worship that Celestial Sound.

Less that a God they thought there cou’d not dwell Within the hollow of the Shell That spoke so sweetly and so well.

What Passion cannot MUSIC raise and quell!"

( Peter Kivy, I think..)

[rootheart]

Originally Posted by jay norem

So anyway here's what I'm wondering: How many of you play nothing but jazz?

I do meanwhile.. Jazz got me into drumming when I was a kid. Then I spent my drummer´s live to play anything, from blues to rock, oldscool rap, bigband and all that...rocking big venices, and small clubs, carrying heavy equipment up and downstairs. Now I´m kinda "retired" I sit at home, plug in the playalongs of Mr. Aebersold and swing along with goosepickles all day long as if it was my daily job. For me this is like chilling..I once was beeing thrown out of heavy metall bands, cause I did play too loud (!!!???)..Now to me Jazz is back to my roots. I´d love to find a Jazz trio to play with, even if only using brushes and comp/feel along to the piano player´s syncopation ideas, dropping a bassdrum bomb once a while, after all those years of doublebass blasting. Sometimes I meet with a guitarrplayer, and we jam like "let´s make some weired noice"..I have no idea what the hell that guy is playing, nore does he know about what the hell I am playing, but the common determinator seems to be a virtual, unplayed walking bass, and so it seems like we often get together somehow, creatively or randomly, playing unexpected synopations unisono, and it sounds like it was beeing written/rehearsed like hell by cool pro jazz/fusion/bebob musicians. It is all about nonverbal communication. We do record it and listen to it, but we do not have any intention to play like this in public, maybe just because it can not be reproduced in any way. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn´t. It is pure fun and a great workshop situation. Jazz somehow is "freedom": In fact it is like riding a harley: the feeling of beeing free to enjoy whatever happens on the road, e.g. randomly drumming weird off time rolls like hell, without fellow musicians to complain about, not being a slave of covering something perfectly or following orders given by a chart (which I shure did and learned from). For me, Bob Ross sucks, but Jazz rulez, though there might be a tiny, not very obvious common determinator living there somewhere like a Bob Ross tree, and it is just a spontanuous decicion to make it come alive.

[Alex Sanguinetti]

Back to the original question, I would say I play about 95% Jazz and 5% Brazilian gigs.

Best regards to all the jazzers!

Alex Sanguinetti (Munich, Germany)
http://www.alexsanguinetti.com
http://www.myspace.com/alexsanguinetti

[KLittle123]

I play jazz, if you wanna call it that....

[junkdrum]

I love jazz, but somehow I've never been satisfied with the level of musicians I could work with until I branched out. In Seattle there are about 5 or 6 excellent drummers who get all the decent gigs. I'm respected, but not in demand, which is the name of the game when working in a field as competitive as jazz. To add to that, I have a day job, a wife, a kid and not a lot of time on my hands. Dedicated musicians, who are scuffling for the crumbs you can make playing jazz get the calls, and rightly so. I used to go to jam sessions, but no gigs have resulted from that. Right now I'm happily working in a quartet that does some pretty creative stuff. None of it is in swing time, but that's cool with me because the world doesn't need another good-but-not-great bebop player.

From time to time I'll call up some guys I know and have a session in my basement, play a bunch of standards that have been done to death and have a great old time. Not a bad way to go really.

[Alex Sanguinetti]

junkdrum,

Very nice post, it would be nice to watch your playing, any videos?

Best regards,

Alex Sanguinetti
http://www.myspace.com/alexsanguinetti

[joseisfreshhh]

i wish i knew how to play jazz
it is the only style i have yet to master,
im working on syncopation right now for jazz, its not easy lol, but not impossible
ill be getting a drum teacher pretty soon though =)

[bobdadruma]

Wow! A Ghost Thread has been revived! COOL!

[dairyairman]

i never saw this thread when it first came out, so i feel like i can pile on now.

i've taken a renewed interest in jazz and jazz drumming over the past year or two, and it's been really interesting and enjoyable. i've gotten reasonably ok at playing it, but compared to the hot shot jazz players in my town i'm a nobody. i think i'd like to do some jazz jamming, but with who? i've never met another jazz player around here who isn't a serious professional.

[BigSteve]

Well I'm getting in on the tail end of this as usual.....I went to a Jazz jam session last night.

I am not a jazz player but really want to learn. Jazz does something for me that alot of other styles of music don't. And right now I suck at it. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. I sat in on a tune that I didn't know...most of the tunes were book standards, and tried to lock in with the bass player and hold down a ride and hit hat pattern. I at least managed that and enjoyed it very much. I met several other drummers and other players who encouraged me to keep at it. Very cool, can't wait to go back. I think now it's time to hit the "shed" cause after watching a couple of the more accomplished musicians it seems like I've got alot to learn.

[dairyairman]

i need to find one of those jazz jam sessions. in my town there are several regular blues jam sessions, but no jazz jam sessions that i'm aware of.

last night i did a recording session with a guitarist i'd never met. before i showed up, i didn't know what we were going to do. it turned out he was a jazz guitarist so i got do a jazz track for him. i was very excited! he liked my track a lot and even paid me! wheeee!!!

[BigSteve]

Nice dairyairman! good work!

I just found this particular jam session through a friend. And after going to this one I learned of several others. I think once you find some of the jazz musicians in your area that will lead you to others, at least that's what I've found in my neck of the woods. For some reason the jam sessions don't seem to be advertised....it's like a secret!

[dairyairman]

ok cool! maybe my drum teacher knows about some of these "secret" jam sessions. he's never said anything about it before, but i'll ask him.

[bobdadruma]

Originally Posted by dairyairman

i need to find one of those jazz jam sessions. in my town there are several regular blues jam sessions, but no jazz jam sessions that i'm aware of.

last night i did a recording session with a guitarist i'd never met. before i showed up, i didn't know what we were going to do. it turned out he was a jazz guitarist so i got do a jazz track for him. i was very excited! he liked my track a lot and even paid me! wheeee!!!

I have been wood shedding jazz for several years now. I can't find any musicians in my area to work with so I can get practical experience. I was playing jazz with some elderly folks from a nearby retirement community for a while. It didn't last long! They were just to old! Death and medical issues took their toll! I did learn from them though.
I tried seeking out middle aged (my age) people to play with. So far, No Luck!
I practice jazz by myself everyday. It has helped my playing in other genres considerably!
I wish that I had some folks to play with so that I could advance further.