DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Technique

Drum Technique Tips - Tricks - Practice - Rudiments - Educational DVDs & Books.....

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:42 PM
davor davor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 74
Default hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Hi all, so Iíve been playing a while, can groove pretty well etc, but Iíve reached a block in my playing and without a teacher I donít really know how to get through it. I think its my rolls, and hand speed thatís the problem.

I was wanting to get into doing some Beatles tunes as Iíve been listening to them a lot recently. Taking Ticket to Ride as an example - I have the main groove down decent enough, but right at the start of the song is a really quick 6 or 7 (I think!) stroke roll. And Iím nowhere near being able to do this, its really frustrating! Ringoís playing has loads of tasty fills like that, Iíd love to be able to do these.

What would you guys suggest for getting me to the point of being able to play that kind of thing? Obviously singles and doubles, with metrnonome, slow at first etc. But I donít seem to have any structure to my practice, and donít seem to get anywhere.

Any pointers would be much appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:06 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 268
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

I'm going to tell you a story about a clinic I attended years ago. The clinician was a college percussion instructor, and he was talking about technique, or rather refinement of technique, and he told a story about when he was first in college as a percussion music major.

He wasn't happy with his drum rolls, so he approached his instructor and asked about what he could do to improve his roll. He had thought that his instructor was going to give him some tip or trick, or some other sage words of wisdom that would turn the light switch on, so to speak, and unlock the mysteries of the drum roll.

Instead, his instructor simply said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, every day."

The takeaway from this is that most of the time there isn't any tip or trick that's going to help - the only thing that will help is dedicated, focused and consistent practice and work. You have to dig in and develop the fine tuning and feel, and there's virtually never any shortcut to that - you have to put in the time and work.

The next time you practice, set a timer and do rolls for 10 minutes. It's not as easy as it sounds on paper. I can virtually guarantee that if you did 10 minutes worth of rolls every day, in a month you'd probably make more progress than you'd think.

That leads me to this quote that I got somewhere, but I think is absolutely relevant.

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:18 PM
Mongrel's Avatar
Mongrel Mongrel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Jersey, USA
Posts: 757
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

I have to say that trickg pretty much nailed it.

I Honestly believe all of my "failures" as a drummer stem from lack of commitment to putting in dedicated time to a particular skill, no matter what the skill is.

You don't learn to play good, solid, fast doubles by trying for five minutes getting frustrated and saying screw this I am just going to jam to records!

Ask me how I know....
__________________
Playing wrong notes passionately since 1978...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:42 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,099
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Double or single strokes? Which ever, start slow and progress a little at a time. and I don't mean a little at a time every five minutes, get a metronome and only move on once you have the slow speed down perfectly
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:15 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 268
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Double or single strokes? Which ever, start slow and progress a little at a time. and I don't mean a little at a time every five minutes, get a metronome and only move on once you have the slow speed down perfectly
The same concept applies - the only way to improve is through steady work. In order to build speed, especially on singles, you have to push into the "dirty" territory before backing back down to a clean speed they can maintain. It's pushing that edge that allows a person to advance their technique.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:14 PM
AzHeat's Avatar
AzHeat AzHeat is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mars
Posts: 1,440
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

The only thing I can add to what tricks said, is time, time and more time. It takes an obnoxious amount of time to get to where fills come naturally. It's all about muscle memory. Your brain may have a pattern in mind, but your hands won't follow.

I've been working on a pattern every day for the last five months, with much longer to go. I can go slow, but fast still gets the best of me. A lot o times, you'll go from 50 to 70bpm far faster than anything higher. My speed breakthroughs have been more like. 50 ->70 ->80 ->85 -87 ->89 ->90 ->90 ->90 weeks or months later->90 ->91->92, etc.

Its not always fills either. You get into independence exercises and your in the same boat. There's nothing fast about learning something complex, fast, or getting to a fluid state.

I look at it this way. if you get frustrated and give up, the days are still just as long, so you may as well keep practicing. Only difference is you'll be way better.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:20 PM
60's Drummer 60's Drummer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 121
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Double or single strokes? Which ever, start slow and progress a little at a time. and I don't mean a little at a time every five minutes, get a metronome and only move on once you have the slow speed down perfectly
Exactly!

Here is a quote from Joe Morello's Master Studies regarding velocity:

"The faster you play, the looser and more relaxed you have to be...The important thing is to free yourself from tension, because any tension will break the flow of energy...Never play faster than a speed at which you can play relaxed and cleanly."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:57 PM
eddypierce eddypierce is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 298
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davor View Post

What would you guys suggest for getting me to the point of being able to play that kind of thing? Obviously singles and doubles, with metrnonome, slow at first etc. But I donít seem to have any structure to my practice, and donít seem to get anywhere.

Any pointers would be much appreciated!
Practicing the short roll studies out of George Lawrence's book Stick Control would be a good start. Pick one of the early pages with 16th rote rolls (either single or double stroke) and play a page or half a page a day, 1-2 minutes per exercise. Play slow and relaxed to a metronome. Do that for 10-30 minutes a day for a few weeks, and you'll probably see some significant improvement.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:17 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, MÝre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,380
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Yeah. Doesn't need to be complicated. Just do the Technique Patterns stuff for 10 mins a day. No need to go for hours, but have a daily routine and keep a log.

A log is essential, not just to keep track of you progress on a give exercise, but to put down your own ideas and things relating to your goals when they come to mind. That generally happens when working on those exercises, a least that's how I work.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:19 PM
cornelius cornelius is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 888
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Definitely ďStick ControlĒ - If you havenít checked that book out...

The short roll exercises are definitely going to help a lot - but Iíd start with the first exercises in the book and work your way up to the roll exercises. The first page starts with single and double stroke rolls, so if you start slowly on those pages, youíll have the basics down before upping the tempo.

i was taught to use the book by playing each exercise for one minute before moving right on to the next one. Play one page a day and up the tempo a bit each day (start around quarter note = 60 BPM). Play a page for a week, then move onto the next page, dropping the tempo back down to 60 again.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:24 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,334
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

I think I see a problem:

You're supposed to hit the drums, not brick walls. Brick walls make very little noise in comparison, and don't sound very impressive.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:57 PM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,869
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I think I see a problem:

You're supposed to hit the drums, not brick walls. Brick walls make very little noise in comparison, and don't sound very impressive.
Good grief Doc you sound like me and missed the point. Obviously he isn’t adding enough yeast and his rolls aren’t rising or they are hard as a brick? I know he isn’t rolling the dough properly. It’s all in the sticking.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:56 PM
davor davor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 74
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Thanks for the replies folks! I've ordered myself a couple of books to try and get some focus and structure into my practice - stick control, and Benny Grebs language of drumming!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:44 PM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,869
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

That's a great idea-I've never worked through a book-well I did when I was 10. But I did check out the Vic Firth 40 rudiments and started practicing rudiments-not all 40 all the time but I make up a routine using various ones. It really helps with all your playing and "cleaning it up" a bit. I like to practice rudiments on my kit-I practice on my snare (I like to see and hear them on a real snare instead of a pad) and then whole kit-using all my limbs (I like playing paradiddles between kick and hats). But if all anyone played was rudiments on a kit it would get boring pretty quick-not saying the practice isn't beneficial. I haven't been doing this all that long but I can see and hear an improvement. I think the practice helps establish and maintain the neural pathways the let you play-so what you play is "clear and clean". So then it becomes taking those skills and playing tastefully-which of course is the really hard part. Remember too you can be very skilled technically and still lack good taste playing so don't let your groove suffer. So record your practice-which is the whole point of this long paragraph. It is like having a teacher-at first you may think this sounds pretty good but the more you listen you will hear and see the problems. We are often our own worse critics-which is good.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-26-2018, 03:32 PM
No Way Jose's Avatar
No Way Jose No Way Jose is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Between the hi hat and floor tom
Posts: 806
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davor View Post
Taking Ticket to Ride as an example - I have the main groove down decent enough, but right at the start of the song is a really quick 6 or 7 (I think!) stroke roll. And I’m nowhere near being able to do this, its really frustrating! Ringo’s playing has loads of tasty fills like that, I’d love to be able to do these.

What would you guys suggest for getting me to the point of being able to play that kind of thing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyNt5zm3U_M

I would watch some Ticket To Ride videos and learn how Ringo plays the song. I would play along with the recording a few times also.

To practice that drum roll I might use Audacity to make a short - about 20 seconds long mp3 recording. Play that recording on my computer so that it loops, play drums along with the recording until I match the sound.

For me books and exercises do not help me when I get stuck on a brick wall. What helps me most to get off the brick wall is playing along with recordings, getting back to having fun with my drum kit.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:08 PM
davor davor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 74
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Way Jose View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyNt5zm3U_M

I would watch some Ticket To Ride videos and learn how Ringo plays the song. I would play along with the recording a few times also.

To practice that drum roll I might use Audacity to make a short - about 20 seconds long mp3 recording. Play that recording on my computer so that it loops, play drums along with the recording until I match the sound.

For me books and exercises do not help me when I get stuck on a brick wall. What helps me most to get off the brick wall is playing along with recordings, getting back to having fun with my drum kit.
Perhaps this is the crux of the issue - this sounds like a good idea, but... I don't have the hand speed/technique to actually pull off the rolls Ringo is doing. So I think working up to it, using Stick Control for example, will be the answer. That's the aim anyway haha!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:34 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,666
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickg View Post

Instead, his instructor simply said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, every day."

The takeaway from this is that most of the time there isn't any tip or trick that's going to help - the only thing that will help is dedicated, focused and consistent practice and work. You have to dig in and develop the fine tuning and feel, and there's virtually never any shortcut to that - you have to put in the time and work.

The next time you practice, set a timer and do rolls for 10 minutes. It's not as easy as it sounds on paper. I can virtually guarantee that if you did 10 minutes worth of rolls every day, in a month you'd probably make more progress than you'd think.

That leads me to this quote that I got somewhere, but I think is absolutely relevant.

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice."
As good as this advice is, it's missing something: you need good practice methods to develop the double stroke roll, and it's more effective and faster to practice 5 or 6 drills that attack the doubles in different ways, than it is to practice one drill for 10 minutes every day.

Davor, you don't need Stick Control -- you need a metronome, a mirror, a pad, a handful of good exercises and drills for developing doubles, and the discipline to do ALL of those exercises every day for a couple months.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:42 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 268
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brentcn View Post
As good as this advice is, it's missing something: you need good practice methods to develop the double stroke roll, and it's more effective and faster to practice 5 or 6 drills that attack the doubles in different ways, than it is to practice one drill for 10 minutes every day.

Davor, you don't need Stick Control -- you need a metronome, a mirror, a pad, a handful of good exercises and drills for developing doubles, and the discipline to do ALL of those exercises every day for a couple months.
I probably should have qualified that this was specific to developing his buzz roll, but the same concept applies. Working the long roll (aka the double stroke roll) can be done in much the same way - just playing a roll at a comfortable tempo, working on developing evenness and consistency only comes through practice. Other drills can be done too, such as playing hand to hand 5 strokes, tap-4s, drags, ruffs, and working paradiddles will also help - anything that will help getting refined control of how the stick bounces.

Keep in mind, this isn't my advice - I simply recounted the story the instructor told. I doubt if playing a buzz/press roll for 10 minutes a day to refine it is going to hurt anything, and I'd bet that it would actually help.

To the OP, method books can help, and they can hinder - it depends on your approach. As a trumpet player, I do a lot of fundamental work without using any method books at all - I want to really focus inward on what's happening between me and the horn so that I can make the minor adjustments necessary to dial things in - sometimes the page can distract from that.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-26-2018, 06:26 PM
davor davor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 74
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brentcn View Post
Davor, you don't need Stick Control -- you need a metronome, a mirror, a pad, a handful of good exercises and drills for developing doubles, and the discipline to do ALL of those exercises every day for a couple months.
ok sounds good - can anyone point me to some actual exercises? There's so much on the internet and youtube, it gets daunting, don't know what to focus on!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-26-2018, 06:44 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 268
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davor View Post
ok sounds good - can anyone point me to some actual exercises? There's so much on the internet and youtube, it gets daunting, don't know what to focus on!
Keep it simple - for the moment, try not to get distracted by the deluge of information that is out there.

I see this all the time with trumpet players. They want to know which books and which exercises to play, and it's daunting because there are literally hundreds of different method books to choose from.

With my trumpet students, I try to simplify it. I tell them that ALL trumpet works, everything from "Hot Cross Buns" to the most difficult pieces played by virtuosos, are comprised of the same very basic fundamental constructs:

1.) Tone production
2.) Articulation
3.) Fingers/coordination with articulation
4.) Flexibility/lip slurs
5.) Breath control

Each one of those things can be worked on in a simple, focused way, and you don't necessarily need exercises out of book to do them. Exercises will, however, provide a structure and focus for those who need it, but it's easy to get overwhelmed by everything that is out there.

I suggest that you find and print off copies of the 26 standard American Rudiments online (there are a couple of sources you can find if you Google) and maybe get the book "Stick Control" by George Lawrence Stone. Then get a practice pad and get to work - start easy and only work a few exercises until you get them down before you move on.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-26-2018, 06:55 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 66
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by davor View Post
Hi all, so I’ve been playing a while, can groove pretty well etc, but I’ve reached a block in my playing and without a teacher I don’t really know how to get through it. I think its my rolls, and hand speed that’s the problem.

I was wanting to get into doing some Beatles tunes as I’ve been listening to them a lot recently. Taking Ticket to Ride as an example - I have the main groove down decent enough, but right at the start of the song is a really quick 6 or 7 (I think!) stroke roll. And I’m nowhere near being able to do this, its really frustrating! Ringo’s playing has loads of tasty fills like that, I’d love to be able to do these.

What would you guys suggest for getting me to the point of being able to play that kind of thing? Obviously singles and doubles, with metrnonome, slow at first etc. But I don’t seem to have any structure to my practice, and don’t seem to get anywhere.

Any pointers would be much appreciated!
looking to improve via text responses from people who you have never heard play is going to get you pretty much nowhere

get with a qualified teacher who can guide you through this very simple process

more often than not this is a very simple fix ... most likely something you are doing that you don't even realize that you are doing that is stunting your improvement ...

it will take a qualified players eyes on your hands to make the proper adjustments ... I deal with this pretty much everyday

you can play suggested exercises all day for 5 years ... but if you are holding yourself back by a simple grip issue or position all the exercises and thread responses in the world aren't going to help
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:39 PM
mrfingers's Avatar
mrfingers mrfingers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 342
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Double or single strokes? Which ever, start slow and progress a little at a time. and I don't mean a little at a time every five minutes, get a metronome and only move on once you have the slow speed down perfectly
Yep, and no book is necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-27-2018, 05:32 AM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,790
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

For doubles i'll do doubles, inverted doubles, and left hand lead doubles.

start slow... make sure every hit sound even.

Basicaly what everyone said.. long stretches every day. I can do it while watching tv even.. The key is to RELAX.

focus on every hit. make sure you don't move your arms,, I use wrist and fingers for the first hit, fingers for the second. use a mirror to make sure your hands are acting the same. or video yourself with a cell phone.

It is hours and hours of practice. There is no shortcut. Try practicing at different volumes as well. I even do different practice pads and different sized sticks. Couch cushions are good for working out the wrists.

The big thing for me is the pad work. it has made a world of difference in my playing.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-27-2018, 05:43 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,166
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickg View Post
I'm going to tell you a story about a clinic I attended years ago. The clinician was a college percussion instructor, and he was talking about technique, or rather refinement of technique, and he told a story about when he was first in college as a percussion music major.

He wasn't happy with his drum rolls, so he approached his instructor and asked about what he could do to improve his roll. He had thought that his instructor was going to give him some tip or trick, or some other sage words of wisdom that would turn the light switch on, so to speak, and unlock the mysteries of the drum roll.

Instead, his instructor simply said, "if you want to improve your roll, then roll - 10 minutes a day, every day."

The takeaway from this is that most of the time there isn't any tip or trick that's going to help - the only thing that will help is dedicated, focused and consistent practice and work. You have to dig in and develop the fine tuning and feel, and there's virtually never any shortcut to that - you have to put in the time and work.

The next time you practice, set a timer and do rolls for 10 minutes. It's not as easy as it sounds on paper. I can virtually guarantee that if you did 10 minutes worth of rolls every day, in a month you'd probably make more progress than you'd think.

That leads me to this quote that I got somewhere, but I think is absolutely relevant.

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice."
^^this.

There is no substitute to putting the time in every day on your chops. I joined my first drum & bugle corps in 1982 and as a group, you spend a goodly amount of time just drilling away on exercises before you even get to the actual music and the marching drill. By the time summer hit, we were rehearsing 12-hours a day, then getting on a bus to travel overnight to the next location (the tours were national over the summer). All we did was drill and play that show.

When I got off the road I found I could just sit at my snare for hours and drill away (not that I wasn't doing that before I joined a drum corps). So you need to put in the time. Start with 10 minutes a day, then increase. But the whole point is that you do it everyday. Make it fun and just continue. It sucks, but that's the only way through it.

Good luck on your quest!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-27-2018, 04:13 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,048
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
looking to improve via text responses from people who you have never heard play is going to get you pretty much nowhere

get with a qualified teacher who can guide you through this very simple process

more often than not this is a very simple fix ... most likely something you are doing that you don't even realize that you are doing that is stunting your improvement ...

it will take a qualified players eyes on your hands to make the proper adjustments ... I deal with this pretty much everyday

you can play suggested exercises all day for 5 years ... but if you are holding yourself back by a simple grip issue or position all the exercises and thread responses in the world aren't going to help
This. A good teacher can get you going the right direction with this in 1-3 lessons... at least so you can work on it productively by yourself.

Also what Bo said. You get better by doing it, a lot.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-27-2018, 04:45 PM
Mongrel's Avatar
Mongrel Mongrel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Jersey, USA
Posts: 757
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Just curious-for you guys who teach. Would you be able to evaluate someone's hands via video or would you need to watch them "live"?

If you could do it, what would you need? Length, camera angle, what exercises?

Lastly-would you do it and what would you charge for something like that?

Hopefully be helpful to know for at least a few of us...

Thanks in advance.
__________________
Playing wrong notes passionately since 1978...
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-27-2018, 05:20 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,048
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

You can do an initial assessment with a video, but actual teaching has to be done live-- either in person or on skype. It's a process where you say something, the person guesses what you mean and tries to do it, and then you correct them, and maybe find another way to explain it or demonstrate it. There's always some back and forth-- and there has to be instant communication. Otherwise you're turning a 5-15 minute process into a weeks or months long thing, and the person still may never get it.

I'm happy to look at anything anyone wants to post-- I don't make a lot of real involved comments because it doesn't help very much (see above) and I don't know if people are even listening. And it takes longer to write something clearly than it does to say it.

If you were going to make a video so people could assess your open roll, you might try doing Three Camps-- the triplet roll version. Or maybe the first roll studies out of Stick Control-- p. 11 or 13.
__________________
Visit Cruise Ship Drummer! - a drumming blog | 2017 CSD! Book of the Blog now available
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-27-2018, 05:34 PM
Mongrel's Avatar
Mongrel Mongrel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Jersey, USA
Posts: 757
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Todd, thank you so much for your detailed reply. It makes perfect sense.

I don't want to crap on the op's thread, but thought it may be helpful to ask, and actually add to the value of it for others as well.
__________________
Playing wrong notes passionately since 1978...
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-27-2018, 06:01 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,417
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Get a teacher. Post a video. Rolls is where technique comes to the forefront. It sounds like you need to learn better technique(s)...and gain hand strength and dexterity, through a teacher...who is in the same room as you.

If I want a good double stroke roll, I'll practice triple stroke rolls.

I'd suggest shedding double strokes at least. Every gorilla can play singles. It's the guys who use doubles that perk my ears up.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-27-2018, 09:21 PM
oldskoolsoul's Avatar
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 443
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
..Get a teacher..

Thats basically the only relevant answer to almost every question in this section..

I started a thread a while ago about forum-views technique vs. gear, in which i wondered why this section never seems to have a lot of views compared to the other ones, but now, a few months later, i have to agree with everyone who says that asking for technique-help through a text-forum like this is basically useless..

Even having only twice a year a 1 hour lesson from a quality teacher will help someone 100 times more than reading every thread in this section 10 times..
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-27-2018, 09:46 PM
trickg's Avatar
trickg trickg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 268
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Get a teacher.
Thats basically the only relevant answer to almost every question in this section.
I guess it depends on the end goal, and what you mean by "get a teacher." I've made the claim many times over the years that I'm primarily self-taught, both as a trumpet player and as a drummer, and I have gigged consistently since I was 17.

I got good enough to become an active duty Army trumpet player, and as a drummer, I've bounced all over the praise team scene in central Maryland - I don't have a home church, but I get called a lot to sub. Recently I got called for a short-term contract position at a church to help out a praise team in need. I've worked there before, and they wanted me back, so I must be doing something right.

On the other hand, I'm not a world class musician. Could I have been if I had gotten lessons? Don't know. Maybe. I've never really thought about it that hard because I've been content and happy enough with my abilities that I continue doing what I do because it seems to get the job done.

If there ever comes a point where I need to up my game enough that I feel I need it, then I'll get a teacher for some lessons, but until then, I'll continue to get my "lessons" as they come - talking to other players, observing other players, and through introspective focused practice in the practice room.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-28-2018, 02:53 AM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,869
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Well there are some awesome self taught drummers-I "ain't" one of them but there are some. I've never had a drum lesson-yeah the irony being an educator for some time. I've been playing for 55 years-wow I must a drum demigod. ROFL don't be silly mediocre at best. The moral of the story is don't be a dumb ass and waste fifty years stumbling to get to where you will be in less than one year with a good teacher. I should be a poster child for drum lessons-I'll make a video and post of YT-plug music educators and you all will be overwhelmed by the response. I can be charismatic-yes hard to believe.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-28-2018, 09:32 AM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, MÝre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,380
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

I'm not sure that hours on end is the important thing.

Those 10-15 minutes of daily focus will do wonders, if they're truly focused. Full concentration, relaxed and clean playing. At the top of your ability you'll find 10 mins is actually quite a while for one exercise.

It's not all about muscles it's an aural thing and about several levels of control. Because of that you want to do exercises with a bit of variation that require a level of concentration.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-28-2018, 04:08 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,417
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post

I started a thread a while ago about forum-views technique vs. gear, in which i wondered why this section never seems to have a lot of views compared to the other ones, but now, a few months later, i have to agree with everyone who says that asking for technique-help through a text-forum like this is basically useless..
Useless is a pretty strong word. I'm not saying you said it, I understand you're simply repeating it. I do see the severe limits of asking for/dispensing technique advice via forums. However.... perhaps someone trying to help the OP mentions something that the OP didn't consider. Or has an equivalent experience worth sharing. I think it's still a good idea to run any technique issue by us first. What could it hurt? We can offer guidance even if it's only saying to find a good technique teacher for instance. We are here to help, even if it's just a little bit.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:30 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,099
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

I remember Stanton Moore telling us at a clinic to start say at 60 bpm and play until comfortable. Then stop, reset the metronome to 65 or 70 and then starting again. Never start at 60 and just flow into a faster tempo. Play one stop, reset, start again.*
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-28-2018, 09:09 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, MÝre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,380
Default Re: hit a brick wall, my rolls suck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Useless is a pretty strong word. I'm not saying you said it, I understand you're simply repeating it. I do see the severe limits of asking for/dispensing technique advice via forums. However.... perhaps someone trying to help the OP mentions something that the OP didn't consider. Or has an equivalent experience worth sharing. I think it's still a good idea to run any technique issue by us first. What could it hurt? We can offer guidance even if it's only saying to find a good technique teacher for instance. We are here to help, even if it's just a little bit.

Well, I dunno.

For many it's this or nothing at all.

My situation may be different from a young beginner, but when I got a job and had to start teaching this instrument, this was where I got a lot of information. I was obviously a grown up in full time employment, so I could pretty easily start getting books, DVDs etc... that were recommended and then I got plenty of information to do my own research.

I've taken lessons and still do, but I generally have to travel pretty far. The journey is usually twice the price of the lesson unless I do two 4 hours days back to back.

Good teachers live far away and are pretty expensive. The local guys that give some lessons aren't even on the level I was when I started playing. Not what they or others around here think, but reality none the less.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com