Lead Singer's Ego

markusjj

Member
Been playing with the same guys for close to a year now. It has been fun but the lead singer/rhythm guitarist has been annoying me lately.

Our last gig, I played a song too fast. After the song, he looked back at me then said into the mic "Wow we just flew through that one!" It really pissed me off because I wouldn't do the same to him. I told him I didn't appreciate it after the gig.

Tonight at practice, both guitarists kept saying they didn't like my drum parts when working on new songs. At one point, the lead singer asked if he could play the drums and said that's how he wanted the drum part. He kept saying how he wanted the part but I felt it was fine.

Am I being too sensitive and unreasonable or is he being an ego maniac?
 
If both guitarists don't like the part and the singer don't like the part, it's time to swallow your pride, admit you're not doing something right, and ask yourself why?

A lead singer having an ego is one thing (and trust me, lead singers can be annoying), but if you're playing the songs too fast, or not playing drums in a way that people do not want to play with you, then that's on you.

Part of playing in a band is playing WITH people, in a way that supports and compliments the music.
 
Depends,sounds like you are doing originals,are you an equal member or more of a hired gun?I would recommend taping rehearsals,including the drum parts he is "Showing" you,and getting input from the rest of the band.Show the band that you are sincerely looking at this from a solution stand point. I would try taking you own ego out it and ask them what they want and try to give him what he wants.I have been in this situation before and sometimes I had to change a part and try and love it even if I never did.On the live show comment,unless he was looking at you or pointing at you or the band was giving you sh#t eating looks during the song I am sure the audience knew nothing.Still not really cool though.I have had the onstage crap like that happen to me before and my parts picked apart around the same time and the skids were being greased,a couple of times it was just political,or personal,or because a weak player that was firmly entrenched was trying to take the heat off of them or putting their insecurities on some one else.
 
Depends,sounds like you are doing originals,are you an equal member or more of a hired gun?I would recommend taping rehearsals,including the drum parts he is "Showing" you,and getting input from the rest of the band.Show the band that you are sincerely looking at this from a solution stand point. I would try taking you own ego out it and ask them what they want and try to give him what he wants.I have been in this situation before and sometimes I had to change a part and try and love it even if I never did.On the live show comment,unless he was looking at you or pointing at you or the band was giving you sh#t eating looks during the song I am sure the audience knew nothing.Still not really cool though.I have had the onstage crap like that happen to me before and my parts picked apart around the same time and the skids were being greased,a couple of times it was just political,or personal,or because a weak player that was firmly entrenched was trying to take the heat off of them or putting their insecurities on some one else.
Both guitarists have been playing together since their teens. The bass player has been with them for the past 5 years so I am pretty much the new guy.

It sounds like I will just have to suck it up and play he/they want. I will admit I am not the most solid drummer in the world. I have my hiccups here and there.

During the gig where I was off tempo, he turned around a couple times during the song. Once telling me to slow down and the other time he just shook his head at me. I thought it was very unprofessional.
 
If both guitarists don't like the part and the singer don't like the part, it's time to swallow your pride, admit you're not doing something right, and ask yourself why?

A lead singer having an ego is one thing (and trust me, lead singers can be annoying), but if you're playing the songs too fast, or not playing drums in a way that people do not want to play with you, then that's on you.

Part of playing in a band is playing WITH people, in a way that supports and compliments the music.

This^^^

Great answer. Whilst it may not be the one you wanted to hear, it's the one that's worth closer investigation IMHO. One odd man out is one thing.....two tells me that whatever point they're trying to make is worth you listening to. Especially if you like the vibe and are interested in sticking around. Flexibility is a great musical trait.

It sounds like I will just have to suck it up and play he/they want.

It tells me that you should suck it up and at least explore other avenues presented to you. If you really think you have a better option, then don't be afraid to say so. But it's worth remembering that a collaborative process can roll in several different directions. "The right one" ain't always the direction you or I may want to go.
 
It tells me that you should suck it up and at least explore other avenues presented to you. If you really think you have a better option, then don't be afraid to say so. But it's worth remembering that a collaborative process can roll in several different directions. "The right one" ain't always the direction you or I may want to go.

Agree with DED and agree with this. I've been asked to change drum parts in my current band but most usually I change it myself first because there were issues.

Markus, do you get recordings of rehearsals? I find it really useful and often tweak drum parts after hearing things I do that are less complementary with others' parts than is ideal.

When it comes down to taking on someone else's idea for a drum part, if it sounds good then the problem is solved and move on. If there are still elements that don't work as well as they could and you have an idea that might work better, by all means bring it to the table ... but don't be offended if your idea is rejected. It can feel personal at the time but in the larger scheme of things it's no biggie.
 
Singers often have great egos but it kind of sounds like you are not really gelling with the band. You said you've been playing with them for a while and enjoying it, but maybe the direction you're heading in at the moment is different to the one they envision.

Perhaps look at your role in the band and where you'd be comfortable. Are you happy to play what the band want you to play or do you want a greater contribution to song writing which you are not being given?

If the latter is the case you may need to find a different band if you are unable to work out a compromise.
 
Both guitarists have been playing together since their teens. The bass player has been with them for the past 5 years so I am pretty much the new guy.

It sounds like I will just have to suck it up and play he/they want. I will admit I am not the most solid drummer in the world. I have my hiccups here and there.

During the gig where I was off tempo, he turned around a couple times during the song. Once telling me to slow down and the other time he just shook his head at me. I thought it was very unprofessional.

You do need to be open to new ideas. I try to remember that great creativity comes from within confines (think painters in prisons), and that being asked to build a song within a certain way your band wants something done can bring out your best musicianship.

i have little patience with people who give dirty looks to other band mates or talk trash through the mic about me or others in the band. All on-stage communication among the band should be done very discreetly. No arm waving cues, no trash talking a band mate on stage or off, and I swear the next hack singer that does the double-arm down-wave when s/he wants the volume down is going to get a stick broken off in his or her anal pore.

Ahem. Sorry, don't know what got into me.
 
My screen name is no longer relevant due to this topic. The band I was with "On This Day" started with the four founding members. Our lead guitarist, bassist, rhythm guitar / vocals, and myself. The vocalist / rhythm guy started bailing on practices to go get high, and sometimes didn't even show up at all.

We replaced him with a new singer a few weeks later. This guy was a real prick (sorry if some of you find that offensive, but it's the best way I can put it.) The guy would tell me to hit my kick drum louder, and to play quieter, and just any and everywhere he could comment negatively on my playing, he would. No one had ever done that to me before.

Come to find out, he'd been doing similar things to our bassist. So we talked to our lead guitarist and told him we weren't feeling the guy, but he didn't want to let go. So I decided the best thing for me to do was walk. I was completely un-aware of it, but my qutting inspired the bassist to quit.

Now we're putting together our own project with two people who auditioned for "On This Day" and didn't make the cut. Our old band have yet to find replacements for us, where as a new vocalist could have been found easily.
 
Been playing with the same guys for close to a year now. It has been fun but the lead singer/rhythm guitarist has been annoying me lately.

Our last gig, I played a song too fast. After the song, he looked back at me then said into the mic "Wow we just flew through that one!" It really pissed me off because I wouldn't do the same to him. I told him I didn't appreciate it after the gig.

Tonight at practice, both guitarists kept saying they didn't like my drum parts when working on new songs. At one point, the lead singer asked if he could play the drums and said that's how he wanted the drum part. He kept saying how he wanted the part but I felt it was fine.

Am I being too sensitive and unreasonable or is he being an ego maniac?

sounds like you guys are young .......humility comes with experience ........

being in a long term band can be frustrating.....roll with it....it gets easier....members come and go and the cream rises to the top....

either that or the band breaks up......which is sometimes for the best

if you believe in what you are doing....keep doing it....

props to you for being mature enough to let him show you how he wanted the parts played without confrontation .......a lot of cats I know would knock a fool out for shit like that
 
I can relate, and have been in that kind setting more times that I would like to remember, but sometimes you need to check your own ego and take one for the team. No matter how many times I may be corrected on a part, I just try to say okay and go with it (mostly because if I don't it costs me a pay check). A lot of the time the person or persons who are giving you trouble and doing so because they are making mistakes and/or will come to find out that they are a problem.

Just last week I was being told I am playing a fill wrong in a new song I had to learn for a gig. I knew I was right, but just said "okay, lets do it the way you want" the next day the guys came back in after listening to the demo and said "hey Nick, sorry we messed up, you did play that fill correct".

Just be the bigger man and don't point out how many times the singers voice cracks or he goes flat, because I'm sure that happens WAY more than you f*ing up a part ;)


If it's an issue, that you did rush a song, just try to stay more on top of the tempo next time, and if the guys are not into a part you are playing for a song, well that's part of being in a band. Not everyone is going to dig 100% of what everyone else does. Take suggestions and try to build something that fits the song together. I almost never get to write my own parts to music, most of the time the songs are already recorded or they have something down they want me to learn.
 
If both guitarists don't like the part and the singer don't like the part, it's time to swallow your pride, admit you're not doing something right, and ask yourself why?

A lead singer having an ego is one thing (and trust me, lead singers can be annoying), but if you're playing the songs too fast, or not playing drums in a way that people do not want to play with you, then that's on you.

Part of playing in a band is playing WITH people, in a way that supports and compliments the music.

Spot on.Pride does come before the fall.This is a perfect reason to record your gigs and rehersals.The tale of the tape doesn't lie.It will also serve as an incentive to practice a little.

You yourself said your playing is not as solid as it should be,so now would be a good time to change that.Don't accept second best from yourself.

Practice every day even if its only on pads,and use a metronome.

If you're doing original material,work out your parts before rehersals,and have alternate parts worked out if your bandmates don't like your first go at it.And get second opinions from friends before trying out your stuff with the band.Good luck.

Steve B
 
I am always receptive to anyone who wants to hear something different. If there's a better or different way to play it, I wanna know. If I'm not delivering, I wanna know. Usually nobody even cares enough about the drum part to comment, so when I do get direction, I eat it up. Sometimes their ideas don't work, but I will always try them. If they don't work, I'll explain why they don't to them after I try their way. My standard attitude is, hey I'll play anything you want. Sometimes it's good to take suggestions, after all, they are trying to improve things. Plus the reputation of being unflappable is good. Learn to cheerfully accept suggestions.
 
Use your best judgment, no one in this thread was there to hear how the singer said that or to hear your playing. You will know if you were wildly out of time or if the singer is being a jerk.

I've been in the position a number of times where the singer makes comments to the crowd after a song, whether about the band and occaisonally about my playing. yes i didnt play well on those tracks that they called up out of the blue unrehearsed, but to mention it to the crowd is 1) unprofessional (bad looking for the band as a whole, and makes the band look like it is devisive amongst itself), 2) rude (should be brought up after the gig).

Every time a singer has done something like this in my groups is because they are insecure about their own playing, and need to cope with it by diffusing the responsibility over the band.

Im not saying you or me couldnt do a better, job, it sounds like you would be the first to admit that, but for what its worth, ill throw in the opinion that doing that over the mic is a bad move professionally, and you were right to address it after the gig.

id lay down the rules, and state if there are future problems, they are not to be brought up on stage like that. id leave the band if it continued. - not because i cant take criticism, but if they are unable to fix it later diplomatically, and just continue to do this, it makes you look bad without serving any purpose.
 
Well the vocalist has continued his tactics at our latest practice. He took it upon himself to hop on my drums and show me how he imagined my part of the song would be. I told him I thought it was too busy but the bass player chimed in saying he liked it better (which actually holds meaning because he rarely offers any sort of unwarranted opinion.)

Sometimes I feel like I'm being ganged up on because they have all been playing together for so long.

Anyway, he also got himself a spot on the local news to play a song he mostly wrote on his own but we contributed as a full band and we play it live.

Am I being unreasonable?
 
the song is boss.

always defer to The Song.

give the song what it needs.

if the song doesn´t suggest for itself what it needs...defer to the writer. he knows what it´s supposed to sound like.
 
Mark, I am understanding of your feelings, but your pride is too close to the surface. You have to totally let go of that. You seem to have a need to be right, that is getting threatened. That need to be right is detrimental. Let it go.

Did you let it go yet?

It's bad for you. It's OK to be wrong. The quicker you acknowledge your wrongness, the more mature and inspirational you'll be to those around you.

They are trying to help you drum better. It's not personal. Let them help you by being receptive. A good attitude will get you through times of uncertainty with grace and maturity. Show them how a mature person handles helpful criticism. Be a blank slate.
You have to be able to genuinely say, "Yea I am off on things here, thanks for trying to help me through this. I will get this right, sorry for the holdup... What do you want to hear there?

You're complaining about the singers ego, so you can't be demonstrating the same attitude because that would make you a hypocrite. Blank slate.
 
Well when Im making somthing to someone original song I usually do this:
1. Listen to the song. Maybe a few times.
2. Make up the drum parts in my head. Come up with ideas.
3. Talk to the band about it before even playing the song. "Should the intro start with this fill? Cuz I thought it could be pretty cool here. Or should I just play when the bass player starts.
After the intro I thought it would sound pretty coolio with a blah blah kind of feel."

If it seems like were disagreeing to much then I would probably quit. Not quit cuz Im mad but quit because of creative differences (I think thats the word Im thinking of). People feel and think of music the differently and I think it would be best to play with people that think more like me.

And for what your lead singer did at the show....That sounds pretty douchey and REALLY unnecessary. I like constructive criticism and blah blah...but...cmon.

This isnt advice. Im just saying what I would be doing.
 
I always swallow my pride and invite suggestions from all members when coming up with drum parts for new songs as long as they are reasonable, especially the song writer. In my opinion, the song writer heard what he wanted in his head when he wrote the song. My ideas could potentially take away from the original ideas and might even take the whole song in a new direction (which is sometimes a good thing). After the general layout is put together as a band, that's when I tweak parts to make them work better for me, or supplement the song. Maybe I've just been lucky with working with a group I trust and no one is disrespectful, allowing the group to work together well. I could imagine then, losing my cool occasionally if that wasn't the case.
 
Mark, I am understanding of your feelings, but your pride is too close to the surface. You have to totally let go of that. You seem to have a need to be right, that is getting threatened. That need to be right is detrimental. Let it go.

Did you let it go yet?

It's bad for you. It's OK to be wrong. The quicker you acknowledge your wrongness, the more mature and inspirational you'll be to those around you.

They are trying to help you drum better. It's not personal. Let them help you by being receptive. A good attitude will get you through times of uncertainty with grace and maturity. Show them how a mature person handles helpful criticism. Be a blank slate.
You have to be able to genuinely say, "Yea I am off on things here, thanks for trying to help me through this. I will get this right, sorry for the holdup... What do you want to hear there?

You're complaining about the singers ego, so you can't be demonstrating the same attitude because that would make you a hypocrite. Blank slate.

Well said Larry.

You're complaining about the lead singers ego, but what I'm reading is that your ego is hurt.

A few points:
He took it upon himself to hop on my drums and show me how he imagined my part of the song would be.
That is part of being in any band. The song writer is going to have a concept about how the song should go. If you want to dictate how things should go, then write your own songs, and then you get to tell the others your vision. But still, overall, a band is collaborative effort, not separate people coming up with separate ideas.

There is a quote from Matt Sorum, about why he played the same exact fill over and over again on the Guns and Roses song "November Rain" and he said "because Axl asked me to, and he wrote the song".

And if your band were to ever get signed to a name record label, and go into the studio with a record producer, then you have the producer telling you to change how you played parts. Many drummers have got themselves thrown out of bands because they couldn't hang with accepting suggestions from the producer.

he also got himself a spot on the local news to play a song he mostly wrote on his own but we contributed as a full band and we play it live.
That is super common. Look at any band in history, and there examples of the singer or main songwriters doing side performances without the full band. If you were in a major signed band, the record company would have the singer doing radio interviews, and on air performances, and TV appearances that would not always feature the full band. Some times it's just not practical for everyone to show up.
 
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