Never encountered this..

I kinda feel like he was complimenting you on the skill vs attitude part.

If the guy has been around as long as you say he has, it's a good sign that he puts equal stock into the team dynamic of the band. Remember, you can always improve your skill, but you can rarely improve someones first impressions of your personality.

I take his challenge with some salt too. He's not asking you to up your chops game so you can utilize those tools through entire songs, I figure he just likes or expects a certain level of proficiency and thinks if you work on those things, your attitude will allow you to spice things up with healthy doses of restraint. We all know that blazing fast fills are not the only mark of a good musician....but if it's one of your weaker attributes, I wouldn't be insulted if he's asking you to work on that weakness.
 
From what you describe, it seems like the ideal situation. Healthy, honest criticism, being in a band with players who are better than you but value attitude over skill (which can be improved on)- I can't think of a better playing opportunity. Plus I'm pretty sure you've posted a video here of you grooving- you can definitely play, man. If "Paul" is who he seems to be, he'll be tough, but consistent and fair. Throw your ego out the window and shatter his expectations.

I've always sought out bands with players better than me, who will put up with my playing. They tend to do so because of my attitude and are brutally frank with criticizing my skills. But there are no head games involved; I look to see where I can improve and they show me. They also give me praise when I'm doing things right. And as far as being the best player in my suburb? Years ago, when I played drum set exclusively, I lived about 10 minutes from Alan Dawson in Lexington. It was pretty easy to keep things in perspective!
 
Paul sounds like a real arrogant bastard. I couldn't put up with much of that I'm afraid.

Paul's also as thick as a turd in a field full of cows, as you quite patently weren't second best. You came first.

Congrats on getting the spot in the band. And good luck.
 
There's an old saying I'm thinking of here. Empty pipes make the most noise, something like that.

I've always found the top players don't have ego's and let their playing do the talking.

Everytime I encounter someone who has an ego this big it's always original bands where they're playing for nothing or paying to play. They always seem to be armchair Buddy Rich's who are shite on their own instrument.

I joined an indie band because they were signed to the same label as Deep Purple, did the album launch and left, they'd recorded the album with a drum machine and couldn't understand a proper drummer isn't a drum machine. Had a 'band meeting' where it was just the others ripping into me so I walked, got my stuff from the unit and haven't seen them again. They didn't play another gig and split up which was sort of instant karma.

Paul sound's like an pretentious arse who won't go anywhere in music because anyone worth their salt won't stand for the premadonna BS and find a paid gig with good players.

I'm lucky to be in the situation where my best mates are also my band mates and we're all music graduates and we do it as a job so there's no egos, but we've never slagged each other off apart from in jest!
 
Never a good sign when they have already dissed the old drummer. Why do that?
No need to point out where you ranked, or to make you show your chops. Would you ask that of Paul?
I disagree with some opinions above, and that actually Paul needs to be stood up to, and told the word 'shove it' or 'back off if you want me in this band'
Paul is an a$$ and long-term will be a problem if you already don't like his attitude or style of personal interaction. If he is showing you these colours on first meeting, he's going to only get worse.

Let's hear back in 4 weeks or so.
 
And as far as being the best player in my suburb? Years ago, when I played drum set exclusively, I lived about 10 minutes from Alan Dawson in Lexington. It was pretty easy to keep things in perspective!
I hear that, I lived in Watertown and Brighton for a time and probably wasn't the best drummer in the apartment complex.

My thoughts to Paul's behavior...it seems a bit arrogant but I think he's just marking his territory, more or less. "This is how it is going to be, like it or leave it".

If he is successful then maybe there is something to it..but if there are underlying issues with this, they'll eventually come to the surface!
 
There's no way you can make any real decisions on Paul, you haven't had enough encounters with him yet. You can't really decide based on this particular situation. It was an audition type thing, where Paul is an employer in a large sense. It will take time to see how things actually are.
 
I'll take this one for Tony's absence.

Just shut up and play. Who cares if Paul wants to mince words and assign numbers to the drummers he looked at. You won the day, and it's your gig.

So play it.

If you don't like the gig, leave.

If you don't get paid as you expect, leave.

But if you're okay, don't listen to what people have to say when it's irrelevant. It's your gig, and if you dig it, just play.
 
I would not have been insulted by being called 2nd best. If I got the job, that means I was the best., that makes me the best. A lot of things go into their decision. Maybe the best looking guy was a druggie. Maybe the best stick twirling master had no tempo. Maybe the best stick bouncing parradiddler didn't seem interested in the genre. Bottom line, they chose the "best".

Just like in every other life situation, we do the best we can and then we do other things to compensate for our short comings.

If you are not a home run hitter, you work on your base hits and defense and you become more valuable than the home run hitter.

And, if you are not pretty, you learn to play guitar :)

Never a good sign when they have already dissed the old drummer. Why do that?

Maybe it was something as simple as his work ethic? MAybe he was always late and they wanted to point out that it caused an issue?

Maybe he lacked dynamics or always rushed his fills and they wanted him to know that they notice things like that?
 
I'll take this one for Tony's absence.

Just shut up and play. Who cares if Paul wants to mince words and assign numbers to the drummers he looked at. You won the day, and it's your gig.

So play it.

If you don't like the gig, leave.

If you don't get paid as you expect, leave.

But if you're okay, don't listen to what people have to say when it's irrelevant. It's your gig, and if you dig it, just play.

^ 1000% agree.

Read Joey Krammer's book. He gets an ear full from Steve Tyler regularly.

Stan Lynch and Tom Petty butted heads, but sold millions doing it.

Or look at Kenny Arnoff's story about John Cougar, and the amount of thing Kenny did that were not right until eventually Kenny was able to turn it around.

I've endured far worse in bands, and didn't bother me.

As the saying goes, no pain, no gain.
 
FWIW, here's my take. And I'm not always very good at this.

Paul has had drummer issues in the past, and he's sick of them, because drummers are below him, and Paul want's to grab the bull by the horns and mold the new guy to his specs, instead of Paul feeling powerless over the drummer like he may have felt in the past. Paul wants to do it hands on this time, because it didn't work out the other way prior.

He doesn't care about hurting feelings (you were 2nd best) because this is all a big hassle for him.

If someone asked me to go quickly around the drums and be impressive, I would have felt like I was in the white hot spotlight too. Yow!



I think Larry has hit this one square on the head. And maybe just maybe the "number 1" drummer turned them down cold.

You may want to take this one cautiously, take it but keep your eyes wide open for signs of trouble.
 
Manipulating people, for any reason, defines the manipulator.

Dominance/ego...these things tend to derail and diminish art.
 
"Yes, I figured I was second best. Sorry Carl Palmer didn't work out -- he's a busy guy. You guys sound pretty good, although you (looking directly at Paul) obviously have a few sticky bits of your own to work out! I know a guy who can help you with that, just let me know and I'll give you his number. Now, let's run through that guitar solo again so you can work on your phrasing. It's ok, we can play it as long as you need. And-three-and-four-and-"
 
Quite a divisive topic, this.

I think I have painted Paul in a bad light by not mentioning the positives - he is friendly and I did enjoy talking with him. He said a lot of things and the two things I already mentioned were the red flags, otherwise all good. He is a good player, has written some nice music and the band has enjoyed some sort of success. Perhaps him being a hardarse is part of the reason for that.

I am moving forward but not going to tolerate any sort of disrespect.

Thanks for all the help.
 
"Yes, I figured I was second best. Sorry Carl Palmer didn't work out -- he's a busy guy. You guys sound pretty good, although you (looking directly at Paul) obviously have a few sticky bits of your own to work out! I know a guy who can help you with that, just let me know and I'll give you his number. Now, let's run through that guitar solo again so you can work on your phrasing. It's ok, we can play it as long as you need. And-three-and-four-and-"

Good one! Took the words right out of my mouth..
As drummers we often run into band members with egos that can sometimes be a trick to tolerate.. they usually end up with band members quitting one by one until there's nothing left but one guy with a bruised ego. I can deal with it up to a point.. but once it becomes a distraction or playing in the band is not fun - then it's time to move on!
 
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