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  #1  
Old 09-14-2013, 03:17 PM
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Default Bummer!

Playing one of our biggest potential audience gigs so far for my present band in October. 4 bands, 45 minute set each, 6000 audience (based on previous years numbers). It's outdoor on a racecourse, with the audience in the grandstands (just as well really, it's UK October :()

Anyhow, just got the advance stage management & PA details etc, & I'm having to play a 4 piece backline kit. Not a huge issue, but it is a limiting factor for me in this band context. My biggest issue is the kit provided is not great, & with sizes I don't like for use in this band (I won't mention the make of kit, as I don't wish to offend anyone). Thing is, it will take much longer to get our band's keys setup on & off stage compared to how long it takes to walk on my frame kit. Not only that, but they're only providing 3 drums. I have to provide everything else, including stands, so by the time I've set up everything else I need, I could have moved my drums on & off twice over.

I'm not going to upset the calm on this one though, as it's a gig our band has been chasing, & I don't want to be the "difficult" one, but really - I'm not happy. It's always us poor drummers that have to suffer on this front, almost irrespective of the circumstances or practicalities.

Even more perplexing, the guy organising the stage & bands, is a drummer!!!!!
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Yup, It's a lack of respect for drummers. But since the stage organizer is a drummer, there must be a diplomatic way you could try to resolve this. The overall quality of the show is the sum of all the parts.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Pretty common actually. Every festival type gig I have ever played I have had to play a backline kit. My recommendation would be to get there early and see if you can tune the kit to your satisfaction. At least then you will have some control over your drum sound.

At least you will get your own cymbals and snare. The last backline I played was provided with XS20's and I was told that I could not substitute my own cymbals due to time constraints. They did give me the option to let everybody use my cymbals, obviously I declined.

Have fun and play well. In the end you will be the only one who knows that you are not playing your own kit.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

In all fairness, all guitarists must play supplied Squier guitars through First Act amps. Singer must share karaoke machine. Just sayin' ; )
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

I guess it depends on where you are in the line-up. If you are last, bring your own stuff and do it your way. If not, well bring your own stuff and play it by ear. With festival type stuff I've generally been lucky with time available before the show.
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
Pretty common actually. Every festival type gig I have ever played I have had to play a backline kit. My recommendation would be to get there early and see if you can tune the kit to your satisfaction. At least then you will have some control over your drum sound.

At least you will get your own cymbals and snare. The last backline I played was provided with XS20's and I was told that I could not substitute my own cymbals due to time constraints. They did give me the option to let everybody use my cymbals, obviously I declined.

Have fun and play well. In the end you will be the only one who knows that you are not playing your own kit.
What's up with XS20s ??

I use some of those....like um
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

I am with you, Andy. I absolutely detest having to use a backline kit regardless of how good it is. We take pride in our instruments and fine tune every aspect of them to our exact specifications and then don't get to use them at some of the biggest gigs we play! Of course in your case, it is guaranteed the backline kit is going to inferior to your own. Still, I am sure you will make the best of the situation. Congrats on this big gig!
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Andy, Bring your snare and cymbals and do the best you can. I hate playing other drummers drum sets. I feel like i'm driving someone else's car and can't adjust anything. You will do great, no worries mate.
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipotle View Post
Yup, It's a lack of respect for drummers. But since the stage organizer is a drummer, there must be a diplomatic way you could try to resolve this. The overall quality of the show is the sum of all the parts.
I believe it's pretty much set in stone. A certain manufacturer of fine (my arse) instruments is providing the kit, & equipped with their choice of heads (i.e the sonic opposite of what I use - again, brand/type not mentioned so as not to offend).

Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
Have fun and play well. In the end you will be the only one who knows that you are not playing your own kit.
The band will know too :( Some of the melodic passages are synced with specific guitar & keys riffs, & built around 4 toms. Not the end of the world, but I play the kit I play with this band for good reason.

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Originally Posted by nightraider43 View Post
In all fairness, all guitarists must play supplied Squier guitars through First Act amps. Singer must share karaoke machine. Just sayin' ; )
If only, if only!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnygrabber View Post
I guess it depends on where you are in the line-up. If you are last, bring your own stuff and do it your way. If not, well bring your own stuff and play it by ear. With festival type stuff I've generally been lucky with time available before the show.
Unfortunately, we're third out of 4, so screwed on wiggle room :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taye-Dyed View Post
I am with you, Andy. I absolutely detest having to use a backline kit regardless of how good it is. We take pride in our instruments and fine tune every aspect of them to our exact specifications and then don't get to use them at some of the biggest gigs we play! Of course in your case, it is guaranteed the backline kit is going to inferior to your own. Still, I am sure you will make the best of the situation. Congrats on this big gig!
Cheers :) TBH, I don't have too much of an issue with backline kits in general, so long as the instrument quality/condition is acceptable, & it's a layout I can work with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdog View Post
Andy, Bring your snare and cymbals and do the best you can. I hate playing other drummers drum sets. I feel like i'm driving someone else's car and can't adjust anything. You will do great, no worries mate.
Cheers Scott, I'm sure I'll do just fine, but this particular setup still pisses me off :(
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2013, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Riddle me this Batman...If you were able to whisk the backline kit off the stage and replace it with your already set up and adjusted kit...why is that not an option? I mean if you could get the backline kit off and yours on and be ready to go before the guitarists are done tuning....what's the harm? As long as when you are done and the backline kit is back up in less than 2 minutes (easily do-able with help), I don't see an issue except probably micing, but again, that's not that big of an issue with a 4 piece kit. In my mind, you could swap the entire drumset and still be ready before anyone else. I think if you are able to pull that off and not cut into the following bands time, drummers should have that option. As long as it doesn't run over time-wise. I find it MUCH easier to swap sets than to adjust the existing set to my needs. Adjusting a foreign set takes way longer than swapping sets, everyday.
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  #11  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

What do drummers who play lefty (such as me) do in this type of situation?
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Dont sweat it. Its a huge gig for your band. Its just a kit. They are just drums. Play as you always do and dont get the idea in your head it will make any difference.
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2013, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Drummers/sound companies need to get together and implement a festival standard round drum riser, say about 10' in diameter with a partition down the middle and the main feature being that it rotates like a lazy susan.

Wireless drum mic's could further expedite change over times.

Two back line drum sets provided with the option of performers humping in their own kit/desired gear and setting up on the backside of the pie while the previous act is performing.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Riddle me this Batman...If you were able to whisk the backline kit off the stage and replace it with your already set up and adjusted kit...why is that not an option? I mean if you could get the backline kit off and yours on and be ready to go before the guitarists are done tuning....what's the harm? As long as when you are done and the backline kit is back up in less than 2 minutes (easily do-able with help), I don't see an issue except probably micing, but again, that's not that big of an issue with a 4 piece kit. In my mind, you could swap the entire drumset and still be ready before anyone else. I think if you are able to pull that off and not cut into the following bands time, drummers should have that option. As long as it doesn't run over time-wise. I find it MUCH easier to swap sets than to adjust the existing set to my needs. Adjusting a foreign set takes way longer than swapping sets, everyday.
I agree with Larry. Most of the time, no one will even think to ask you what you are doing if you don't make their job any harder. Speed and maybe a few bucks thrown the engineers way will usually get you there.
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2013, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Drummers/sound companies need to get together and implement a festival standard round drum riser, say about 10' in diameter with a partition down the middle and the main feature being that it rotates like a lazy susan.

Wireless drum mic's could further expedite change over times.

Two back line drum sets provided with the option of performers humping in their own kit/desired gear and setting up on the backside of the pie while the previous act is performing.
WHAT a great idea. Seriously great idea. But who is gonna go out of their way to procure a lazy susan type setup for us? TBH, I like the kit swapping idea, it works. You just need another person to help. As long as you have overhead micing, kick and snare, there's no need to fuss with close micing toms. Snare mics and kick mics are easily placed, and nothing much should have to be done with the overheads. But I like the idea a lot.
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  #16  
Old 09-14-2013, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

It seems pretty par for the course.

And I've found, at times, the having to over come the uneasiness of playing an unusual/different kit has pushed me (or the band as a whole), to rise to the occasion and actually play better.
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2013, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
What do drummers who play lefty (such as me) do in this type of situation?
Well, I thought this was a relevant question!


My dominant hand is always in the minority.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I believe it's pretty much set in stone. A certain manufacturer of fine (my arse) instruments is providing the kit, & equipped with their choice of heads (i.e the sonic opposite of what I use - again, brand/type not mentioned so as not to offend).
I'm going to guess Pinstripes (or Hydraulics, or whatever)... A shame, not least because the Guru sound won't be piping out of the stage. I'm sure the gig will go great, though.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
What do drummers who play lefty (such as me) do in this type of situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
Well, I thought this was a relevant question!


My dominant hand is always in the minority.
I am a lefty too and have done this several times. It is no fun at all. When your whole set is 45 minutes, you need to switch things around really fast and then it is your responsibility as the odd man out to put things back together afterwards. Switching the hi-hat stand, snare stand and the floor tom to the other side is easy, but the rack toms, and the cymbal stands are not so. I had to play with the toms and cymbals at weird positions and distances. I am not a happy camper when I have to use a backline kit. My setup is really compact, so I could set mine up faster than adjusting the supplied kit. I think I am going to insist on that from now on!
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Playing one of our biggest potential audience gigs so far for my present band in October. 4 bands, 45 minute set each, 6000 audience (based on previous years numbers). It's outdoor on a racecourse, with the audience in the grandstands (just as well really, it's UK October :()

Anyhow, just got the advance stage management & PA details etc, & I'm having to play a 4 piece backline kit. Not a huge issue, but it is a limiting factor for me in this band context. My biggest issue is the kit provided is not great, & with sizes I don't like for use in this band (I won't mention the make of kit, as I don't wish to offend anyone). Thing is, it will take much longer to get our band's keys setup on & off stage compared to how long it takes to walk on my frame kit. Not only that, but they're only providing 3 drums. I have to provide everything else, including stands, so by the time I've set up everything else I need, I could have moved my drums on & off twice over.

I'm not going to upset the calm on this one though, as it's a gig our band has been chasing, & I don't want to be the "difficult" one, but really - I'm not happy. It's always us poor drummers that have to suffer on this front, almost irrespective of the circumstances or practicalities.

Even more perplexing, the guy organising the stage & bands, is a drummer!!!!!
This is where you thank God that you don't have a problem playing a four-piece and a couple of cymbals. I know you like to have everything that you have, but really, you don't need it. You can do all the music you play with one crash/ride and a pair of hats and a few drums - hell, I've done all the music you play with that much gear! So you know you can do it. I'd just get on with it and have fun. Your set should not determine whether or not you're going to have a great gig. But why are we talking about this? You already know that!

I'm willing to bet your keyboard player can get along with one keyboard too. You're playing for 45 minutes - just taylor your set list to one-keyboard songs for this one. Go out and do a great job, and maybe next year when you're a regular booking, you can start to take the reigns of the operation ;)
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Backline kits can be a pain..............but we've all seen your vids and I'm sure you'll be able to pull it off fine.

Good luck with it
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

I really do not like festivals at all. Often the organizers do not do their jobs and the line ups are all mixed up. The ones with multiple stages are even worse. So far I have not had to play a back lined kit but honestly for a short set I would not mind. Within the last few months I have let two drummers us my kit. S Hoops protect my bearing edges and I often get free heads so I don't mind every now and then. I would NEVER let someone use my cymbals unless it was an artist I knew (and they would replace what they broke).

My opinion is that sometimes us drummers have to suck it up for the sake of the bands we support. These days so long as the crowd and band is happy I am ok playing whatever P.O.S they throw at me so long as I can make it comfortable for me.

Since I have been gigging back stateside I have learned that being very flexible and able to adapt to whatever crazy situation the gigs have thrown at me has gained me a lot of praise.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by porter View Post
I'm going to guess Pinstripes (or Hydraulics, or whatever)... A shame, not least because the Guru sound won't be piping out of the stage. I'm sure the gig will go great, though.

What's wrong with pinstripes?
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2013, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Riddle me this Batman...If you were able to whisk the backline kit off the stage and replace it with your already set up and adjusted kit...why is that not an option?
Agreed Larry. Read my next post :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmulcahy1 View Post
What do drummers who play lefty (such as me) do in this type of situation?
Exactly. Very inconsiderate, & actually counter productive to not consider that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
Dont sweat it. Its a huge gig for your band. Its just a kit. They are just drums. Play as you always do and dont get the idea in your head it will make any difference.
No issues with a 4 piece, it's the practical element that perplexes me most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Drummers/sound companies need to get together and implement a festival standard round drum riser, say about 10' in diameter with a partition down the middle and the main feature being that it rotates like a lazy susan.

Wireless drum mic's could further expedite change over times.

Two back line drum sets provided with the option of performers humping in their own kit/desired gear and setting up on the backside of the pie while the previous act is performing.
An absolutely stellar idea!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I agree with Larry. Most of the time, no one will even think to ask you what you are doing if you don't make their job any harder. Speed and maybe a few bucks thrown the engineers way will usually get you there.
Right on Jeff. Communication is key (read on :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
It seems pretty par for the course.
Yes Ian, but I think we often accept our place in the pecking order rather than speaking out. It's a judgement call for sure, but I do think us drummers are a little too benign for our own good sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porter View Post
I'm going to guess Pinstripes (or Hydraulics, or whatever)... A shame, not least because the Guru sound won't be piping out of the stage. I'm sure the gig will go great, though.
A Guru sound will be piping FOH!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taye-Dyed View Post
I am a lefty too and have done this several times. It is no fun at all.
Absolutely. I know two left hand players who constantly come across this situation, & it sucks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
This is where you thank God that you don't have a problem playing a four-piece and a couple of cymbals.
You're missing the main point Bo. I don't have an issue with a slimmed down setup. I rehearse with such a setup most times. Ok, it's not ideal, but it's the logistical issues that make no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longgun View Post
Backline kits can be a pain..............but we've all seen your vids and I'm sure you'll be able to pull it off fine.

Good luck with it
Cheers :) Again, it's not the playing angle that irks me.

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Originally Posted by AirborneSFC View Post
Since I have been gigging back stateside I have learned that being very flexible and able to adapt to whatever crazy situation the gigs have thrown at me has gained me a lot of praise.
Indeed. I'm also a very flexible & accommodating guy, but I do kick back when a decision clearly makes no sense.

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What's wrong with pinstripes?
Absolutely nothing :)
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2013, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post

You're missing the main point Bo. I don't have an issue with a slimmed down setup. I rehearse with such a setup most times. Ok, it's not ideal, but it's the logistical issues that make no sense.
No, I get the whole thing. I'm telling you you just have to suck it up ;)

And being a lefty? That's not a problem for me either - I just flip what I can and play the rest of the kit backwards - and I still rock.

Nothing is ever ideal. Drummers never get what they deserve even in the best of circumstances. But you still play great and do it with a smile because you love it, right?
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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And being a lefty? That's not a problem for me either - I just flip what I can and play the rest of the kit backwards - and I still rock.
I know you rock Bo. You're a great player - a much better player than me for sure. I'm a player of extremely limited repertoire. I play one or two styles well, nothing more, & yes I admit, I rely on the familiarity of my setup to some extent too, especially when it comes to melodic expression. I've posted this before on my "in defence of multiple toms" thread, but this is an example of just how much I use multiple toms. To what effect? Well, that's for others to judge, but the band both likes & wants what I do, & the audience seem to appreciate it too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbE4rOmfj9U&hd=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
No, I get the whole thing. I'm telling you you just have to suck it up ;)
If I was a pro, I'd agree 100% with you, but I'm not. I do it for the enjoyment of it, so why shouldn't I enjoy myself to the full? I don't mind sucking it up if there's a genuine practical advantage, but when the requested method is actually counter productive, I fail to see why I should roll over & let them walk all over me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Nothing is ever ideal. Drummers never get what they deserve even in the best of circumstances.
Well this is where I draw a line in the sand then. Spurred on by some of the responses here, I decided to call the organiser & promoter to explain how I think it can work better for all concerned, & blow me down, they agreed! Even better, I've been in touch with the PA company, & the guy in charge is an absolute star! I'm hoping many of us here take heart from the response below. PA guys always get a bad rap - well - here's a really good one :) Because I dared to push this politely, I won out. Communication, communication, communication! Sometimes us downtrodden drummers do get what we deserve :)


Response to my request:

Hi Andrew

For me absolutely no problem, i can supply you with either AKG or SHURE drum Mic's, we can mic the snare top and bottom with SM57BETA mics (or any other combination, just let me know in advance of your preference) and use either the Shure or AKG condensers for overheads.

I fully understand the issue, I like to use my own kit as well were possible, the important thing is to feel comfortable when you are performing.

Just to clarify we are using your kit for all bands? something to check with the other bands is anyone left handed, I recently I did the sound at a gig were the last band on supplied the drum kit for the whole event, which was fine until the second band on started dismantling the kit and moving everything because the drummer was left handed, this cost quite a bit of time and there are fairly tight time constraints on this event for change over, just something to consider

I am currently overseas with work but will be in the UK on the 9th of October, after this date if you like we can arrange for you and the rest of the band to bring your kit to my workshop in Bulwark and we can set up and get everything dialed in for the show

I look forward to hearing from you

Kind Regards

Shaun
evoqueaudio


My reply:

Hi Shaun,

thank you so much for responding so positively. This really is a breath of fresh air :)

I did offer my kit for all band use (I think only 3 of the 5 acts use a kit), but Chris preferred me using my kit for our set, & the provided kit for the other two sets. I understand his position, as I think there's an aesthetic angle to consider for the first act.

Either way, so long as there's sufficient access side stage (Chris informs me there's a setup area), & assuming the previous band can get their gear off stage smartly, I see no turn around issues. The kit is on a rack ready to go, so can be on that riser ready for mic's in 2 minutes. Our keyboard setup takes the longest, but is through it's own mixer, leaving only a stereo feed to FOH.

Thank you for your kind pre-setup offer. I assume you're driving a digital desk? Due to distance & other commitments, I doubt we can attend your suggested pre gig session, but it's a wonderful offer. Again, most grateful for your consideration. Occasionally, as a favour, for known contacts only, we wet hire our own PA out for multiple band gigs. We run a simple 7K Logic System rig driven through a Mixwiz 3, but we're still acutely aware of logistical issues.

As for mic's, I'll leave that in your capable hands. I'd rather you use the setup you're used to. Actually, although it's a 6 piece kit, it's really easy to work with. We can chat it through nearer the date, as I'm tied up with drum shows & studio/video sessions until late October.

Chris has asked for a band PA requirement list, but while I'm contacting you directly, I might as well take this with you. There's no doubt we're the most gear heavy band at the event in terms of feeds. Here's a quick compilation video from some of last year's gigs. Only recorded on a Zoom handycam, but you get the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdNH7PDwaT8&hd=1

Anyhow, this is what we need:

KIT: no vocal. 4 x toms (rims are suitable for clip on) Bass drum, overheads, snare (top only is just fine) Monitoring - lead vocals & BV's, keys. (I usually get enough bass & lead guitar from the stage)

KEYS: no rear line, stereo out to DI. Vocal mic. I'll have a look at the set list, as there may be a need for acoustic guitar DI, but we'll try to avoid that. Monitoring - keys, lead guitar, all vocals.

BASS: DI from rear line. Main BV mic. Monitoring - all vocals, maybe some guitar & keys depending on stage sound.

Guitar: Mic rear line preferred, but can DI if you wish. No vocal. Monitoring - all vocals, keys.

Lead vocal: Mic. Monitoring - all vocals, keys.

Again, thank you so much for your positive & helpful response Shaun. We very much look forward to working with you.

Best regards, Andy.
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  #27  
Old 09-15-2013, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

That worked out nicely then!

Like in all parts of life, being honest - and well mannered - gets you a long way.
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2013, 06:02 PM
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That worked out nicely then!

Like in all parts of life, being honest - and well mannered - gets you a long way.
Indeed, it works well most of the time. Also, you don't get if you don't ask (respectfully). By getting in touch & putting my points across, not only have I eased the turn around situation for the band, but I've turned a personal concern into something that allows me to look forward to the gig :)
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2013, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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What's wrong with pinstripes?
Nothing with them as a stand alone head, but they're not my thing. I prefer both single-ply and non-pre-muffled heads- and I'd doubt their appropriateness for this kind of environment.

Hurray for Andy! C:
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2013, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Well I'm glad you got to work it out! And my point wasn't to say that I'm good or anything, my point was that you do a very good job with your band, so a few small hurdles shouldn't faze you guys a wit.

I understand the comment on how a drummer can do this to the acts, I've seen it before. Your mentality changes when you're the show director and no longer just the guy playing the drums ;)
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  #31  
Old 09-15-2013, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
WHAT a great idea. Seriously great idea. But who is gonna go out of their way to procure a lazy susan type setup for us? TBH, I like the kit swapping idea, it works. You just need another person to help. As long as you have overhead micing, kick and snare, there's no need to fuss with close micing toms. Snare mics and kick mics are easily placed, and nothing much should have to be done with the overheads. But I like the idea a lot.

A sound company who does a lot of these events, or ones that are interested in getting a leg-up on competition to get these jobs, that's who'll make/use one, probably have a drummer on the crew too, or maybe even a drummer owner.


At festival type gigs where there's a lot of bands the drums are always the weakest link in the event, change over, player satisfaction etc. Its not that hard for a guitar player to get an amp onstage and its only one mic. Drummers are expected to compromise, that could be cured big time with a revolving drum riser of some sort. It wouldn't be that difficult to construct one.

Its going to happen, its just who'll be the first.
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  #32  
Old 09-15-2013, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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Well I'm glad you got to work it out! And my point wasn't to say that I'm good or anything, my point was that you do a very good job with your band, so a few small hurdles shouldn't faze you guys a wit.
Thanks Bo. I know you weren't making that point, but I thought it appropriate to highlight my different position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Its going to happen, its just who'll be the first.
It's a great idea. I've seen it done in terms of a whole stage replacing two stages, but never just a drum riser. I suppose the riser on wheels run out from side stage is the low rent version of your idea. I've used those on a few occasions.
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  #33  
Old 09-16-2013, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

It's a situation I come across almost weekly in London and also at festivals (have done 5 this year so far)

The last one was at a festival in Norwich two weekends ago on the main stage where all the bands were sharing one setup.

The setup itself was really uncomfortable, pretty much everything in terms of how it was setup was the opposite of how I set up my gear. I had three top toms, one bottom and about 10 cymbals. I was also enclosed in a rack. The main issue being my ride cymbal was nowhere near where my muscle memory expected it to be as it was over to the right and my crash had to be placed way off its usual space. Two key parts of the kit not being where I expected them to be.

(Normally play a one up two down or one up one down kit)

After the nerve of the opening song disappeared I actually enjoyed it. Felt refreshing to play a kit I wasn't comfortable with, felt like a test to pull it off and I left the stage an hour later really pleased with my performance. Felt like I approached the songs in a different (but positive) manner.

Played another setup at a show in London earlier in the year and again three top toms but the cymbals were so high (and the stands were memory locked) I had to jump out my seat to hit them. Didn't screw up once and I was really pleased I passed the 'test'.

Good that you got a result though! It's certainly refreshing to have a sound guy so accommodating as most have so much to focus on setting up the band that these things get missed, especially when it means tearing down one set of mics and a drum kit before replacing it all, normally within a 10-15min changeover.
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  #34  
Old 09-16-2013, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Good for you Andy. Here's to not rolling over and letting everyone walk all over you.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Well done, Andy - I'm glad you were dealing with somebody who was prepared to be reasonable. Most of all, I'm delighted that you're looking forward to the gig now.

Incidentally, my teacher (LiEun on here) is a lefty, currently doing his first-ever tour (Italy) and having to play backline kits. His first concern was whether the owner of the drums would mind him playing them, as he'd spontaneously combust if anybody else touched his kit; I'm keen to find out how he's managed, lefty-wise.
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  #36  
Old 09-16-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Bummer!

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Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
Didn't screw up once and I was really pleased I passed the 'test'.
Agree. I like the challenge of a new kit, & don't struggle too much, although I do get comfort from my familiar setup. I use a different layout in practice to the one I use live, so no issues with that. In this particular situation, the logistics just didn't make sense, & the provided kit was about as wrong as it can be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Good for you Andy. Here's to not rolling over and letting everyone walk all over you.
You've got to stand up sometimes Larry, & if you've got a good case, put across respectfully, most times, you can get a good reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
Well done, Andy - I'm glad you were dealing with somebody who was prepared to be reasonable. Most of all, I'm delighted that you're looking forward to the gig now.

Incidentally, my teacher (LiEun on here) is a lefty, currently doing his first-ever tour (Italy) and having to play backline kits. His first concern was whether the owner of the drums would mind him playing them, as he'd spontaneously combust if anybody else touched his kit; I'm keen to find out how he's managed, lefty-wise.
I am indeed looking forward to the gig :) I do use the 4 toms quite extensively. Ok, I can do the same thing on two, but it's just not the same. My live kit is set up this way for a reason, & when possible, I like to deliver as it was designed within the band context.

Because it was buried in text before, here's that link again, just to give an idea of how much I use multiple toms in a gig with this band:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbE4rOmfj9U&hd=1

.
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  #37  
Old 09-16-2013, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

So here is my question Andy. What happens if another drummer in one of the other bands wants to play his kit. Any other drummer could say, "hey, my drum parts are specific to my kit, I need to play my own set." and now that the precident has been set, the promoter looks bad if he says no.
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  #38  
Old 09-16-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Andy, glad it worked out. The organizers have to realize at times to put on a good show, the bands need to be comfortable. and if that means playing a larger kit than they are supplying, then try to make that happen. Seems like a big enough show that they don't want the bands to fail. Good luck man. you would have been lost without those wind chimes!!!
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  #39  
Old 09-16-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
So here is my question Andy. What happens if another drummer in one of the other bands wants to play his kit. Any other drummer could say, "hey, my drum parts are specific to my kit, I need to play my own set." and now that the precident has been set, the promoter looks bad if he says no.
I understand the concern, but if I was running that stage, I'd stipulate that the changeover had to be complete within the allotted time. I'm able to demonstrate that. My kit is on a rack, can be carried on to the riser & ready for mic's within 2 minutes. I can even have the kit on stage with mic's already to go within 3 minutes (need about 1 minute or less to plug them into the stage box). It's much faster for me to do this than even basic modifications to the supplied kit. They're providing 3 drums - nothing else. That means those drums need to be adjusted for position, cymbal stands, hihat, snare, throne, & bass drum pedal added to. I challenge anyone to do that in 2 minutes. Time allotted for changeover = 15 minutes. More specifically, 5 minutes gear off, 10 minutes gear on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
Andy, glad it worked out. The organizers have to realize at times to put on a good show, the bands need to be comfortable. and if that means playing a larger kit than they are supplying, then try to make that happen. Seems like a big enough show that they don't want the bands to fail. Good luck man. you would have been lost without those wind chimes!!!
Cheers :) It wasn't just the kit, it was the logistics that didn't make sense, plus the quality of the supplied kit.

As for wind chimes, if it's windy, I'll have to leave them off. What a disaster!!!!!! ;) ;) ;)
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  #40  
Old 09-16-2013, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Bummer!

Here we see the power of politeness, courtesy, assertiveness and having your *@&^ together. A good read for anyone here!
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