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  #1  
Old 04-11-2013, 04:50 PM
SimSalaBim SimSalaBim is offline
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Default Showmanship behind the drums!

Hi

Have some thing that is bothering me for quite some time. We all know there is millions of drummers and millions of drumming styles around. I just want some of your opinions on drummers who are making the show behind the drums. We all know that guys who are really trying too much, making really weird faces etc. On the other hand there is concentrated focuse look of Neal Peart. No flash but still doing his work great. Which one do you prefer and do you think it's natural and necessary to make the funny faces to really shine out like a drummer. Which group do you belong to? Do you really think that thing is natural or part of the show?
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

IMO, if you've got a tight grip on your playing, a little flash is acceptable, and can be enjoyable to watch...live music is entertainment!

Too much flash? That's very subjective, but I know it when I see it.

The faces, lol, I love Bozzio's expressions, and I think that a lot of us tend to make faces of some sort when really digging the groove. I realize that some do it "for show". I guess that's kinda in the same category, for me, as too much flash; I know it when I see it.

None of it is necessary though...except for good musicianship.
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

I was watching a band at the Harrah's casino last week. They were playing top-40 type music and doing it very well. On one song, the beat was pretty simplistic, so the drummer was twirling his one stick between each of the strikes on the snare. I thought it was really cool, and it didn't affect the music he was playing. Now if he did that all the way through every song....
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

As long as all the important bases are covered (steady meter, proper tempo, proper energy for the song, conviction to what is being played, proper dynamics etc...) man if you can do all that and have enough brainpower left over for showmanship more power to ya. Steve Moore has that in spades. The guys playing...if you weren't watching, works great on every important level. Then when you see him it's like damn!
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:53 PM
FridgeBuzz FridgeBuzz is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

As a player I come across the occasional "you make everything look so easy/flawless/flow/etc." after a gig but to me I can careless about showman ship, I incorporate body language with the dynamics of the song, it looks way more human especially when the crowd gets into it. I'll see some guys who rely on their stick twirling to groove, which is pretty nifty, but at times it seems a bit robotic. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy showmanship/stick twirling from an audience standpoint as long as it grooves with the songs but I've seen some guys overplay it and it distracts me from the rest of the band. I dunno, to each their own.
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

For me, my showmanship consists of keeping the eyes open, looking at and playing "with" the others, smiling, and also visibly getting in "the zone". That takes up all my brain power. I twirl sticks in between songs lol.

People say they like watching me play right now so I don't feel the need to add anything that doesn't come naturally.

My guitarist does the wireless thing. So when he decides to leave the stage and walk around the bar playing, and most everyone is still looking at the stage...well that makes me happy.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:19 PM
FridgeBuzz FridgeBuzz is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

People say they like watching me play right now so I don't feel the need to add anything that doesn't come naturally.
Dude you are a library of wisdom.
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2013, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Do you mean like this drummer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9kPfelTEds

heehee
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2013, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove1 View Post
Do you mean like this drummer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9kPfelTEds

heehee
I love the way the rest of the band is so serious. How can they keep a straight face?
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  #10  
Old 04-12-2013, 01:50 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimSalaBim View Post
Which one do you prefer.......
I prefer the guy who is natural.....whether that be naturally introverted, naturally extroverted or naturally in between. Some people are born showmen....like Keith Moon.......that's their thing and I'm happy enough for them to display that on stage because it's part of who they really are. Others are like Charlie Watts...sit down, shut up and lock in.....I really dig that approach too because that's what makes them comfortable and allows them to be themselves.

What I don't like is people who try too hard to be OTT. When it's obviously nothing more than a contrived act, because that's how they think they should act on stage. It looks forced, obvious, out of place and quite honestly, a little sad.


Quote:
Which group do you belong to?
The second. I'm no introvert.......but I've never felt the need to put myself either front, centre or over the top with my stage antics either. I do make faces though. But wanting to be "part of the act" has nothing to do with it......I just make a few from time to time. So does Charlie.....and Neal for that matter.

Quote:
Do you really think that thing is natural or part of the show?
As long as it's not completely contrived. That approach is abundantly obvious. But above all, it's fake......and I can spot a fake a mile away.

Last edited by Pocket-full-of-gold; 04-12-2013 at 02:05 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldrockdrummer View Post
I love the way the rest of the band is so serious. How can they keep a straight face?
Right? It looks to me like the 6 string bass player has the "been there done that" look on his face with this drummer and is not amused by it anymore, if he ever was. He looks like he wants to crawl under a rock to me.

I think he's pathetic on this song, but he still makes me laugh, not with him, at him. It looks like a serious gig, right? This seems like something he's doing because he knows he's getting getting fired lol.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlrb7E This is still the best hands down! Like one comment said, thats what happens when a drummer HAS to play Zz TOP haha! Seriously, Steven Moore is awesome at this! I cant help but laugh at him and wish I could do that too!
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Check out Vince Neil's drummer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOzkz6T-m4
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2013, 06:16 AM
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Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Hammery has always been a huge part of rock. Before giant video screen bands who played in large venues had to be larger than life for the energy to come across.

I don't think being natural is applicable to all situations. It depends on whether you're playing a gig or a show. I'd no more expect musicians in a show to be themselves than stage actors.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

I'll just quote my own post from this thread

Quote:
My love for stick tricks and showmanship has been well documented on this forum; I absolutely love it!

As long as the actual playing never suffers, I say put on the best visual show you can. You're on stage to entertain, and I know that most non-drummers will appreciate it when the guys on stage show that they're having fun, and go all out. In addition to that, it's just a lot of fun to do as a drummer too. Of course, what you do and how much you do it greatly depends on the style of the music and the band. You probably don't want to play some quiet, smooth jazz while throwing sticks around, flailing madly and headbanging.

I realise that the drumming community is divided on this issue, but I definitely fall on the pro-stick tricks side of the debate :-)

Here are some examples of drummers that I could watch all day long (some are absolutely insane, others a bit more subdued):

Seven Antonopoulos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4_4gWJ03M
Will Hunt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Ale_A3q5o
John Fred Young: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20ZYhhAAu7E
Zoltan Chaney: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlQttjwF5gY

And, of course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxebUpRgdKc
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  #16  
Old 04-12-2013, 10:47 PM
Otto Otto is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

irrelevant in my opinion and enjoyment.
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  #17  
Old 04-13-2013, 12:45 AM
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Markadiddle Markadiddle is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IulqIuXIrYY

Check this out near the end.
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:57 PM
davelan davelan is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

From experience as a spectator, the one thing I've come to realise is that, however you look, you shouldn't look bored; looking like you're concentrating, working hard, etc. is all fine but I figure the least you can get get away with during a public performance is to look like you're 'into it' on some level or other.
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  #19  
Old 09-12-2013, 02:07 AM
Cory Bredow Cory Bredow is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

To me, showmanship is not about how many faces you can make, or even how many licks you can throw in while busting a one handed twirl. Showmanship is usually just how you feel to that song at that moment. It should just feel natural. A song should not be I perform 3 measures then raise my hand high above my head for a quick little flash for show then go 3 more... Even if you play that same song a thousand times, you should play it how you feel it. The showmanship is just the crowds outward view of your emotional performance. You should never forget, Music is emotion. There are good songs and sad songs, lifting your heartstrings or partying all night long... If you play by emotion, the songs will naturally have both the music how you feel it and the show of your body language. But be it the extreme concentration of Neil Pert, or the flash of people like Steve Moore... Both are expressing their feeling in their song. That is what makes them great! That's what gravitates our eyes to their performances.

If you like a mix between the 2 then you might like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZkG6lOrPU

Last edited by Cory Bredow; 09-12-2013 at 02:13 AM. Reason: Added Link For People Who Like Stick Tricks.
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2013, 04:13 AM
stapes2260 stapes2260 is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

When it comes to showmanship, I've always been a fan of Shannon Larkin of Godsmack. He's not over the top and he's very fluid.

All I know is that if you're going to go big on showmanship, you'd better have the fundamentals down. If you can't keep a straight beat and you're throwing your sticks around every single measure, then you're going to look like a fool.
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  #21  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:29 PM
moxman moxman is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Showmanship - definitely! But it depends how you do it.. I don't mind a stick twirl for dramatic effect at a point in a show that calls for something like that eg. a breakdown where the vocalist is trying to get the crowd hyped up).. but twirling through standard playing just looks silly and distracting to me. Facial expressions.. well yeah to a point.. you don't want to get gig photos back where in every pic you have your tongue sticking out or whatever.. but guys like Butch Miles used to be great at great facial expressions to express the 'attitude and accents of what he was playing.. very entertaining! What I dig is body movement that expresses the flow.. when I play - my whole body is into it, my sticks are flying, and sweeping arcs - my arms , wrists and hands are just along for the ride.. some call it dance-drumming; but I've got to tell you when you're flying down that train track it feels great - and the audience gets a charge out of it as well.
So - natural expression is great - but phony grandstanding to me is just silly - in fact one of my bass players told me once that if I twirled the sticks he'd throw his bass at me!
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:58 PM
mymarkers mymarkers is offline
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

You really only have 3 choices.

1. Just play and trust that appropriate visuals will happen naturally.
2. Use sparingly with clear purpose.
3. Go completely overboard to the point that you are acting as much as you are drumming.
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2013, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Why would it bother anyone?

Showman ship as been a part of drumming since the drum set was invented.

Gene Krupa, Papa Jo Jones, Sonny Payne and many other early drum set greats were all big into showmanship.

And obviously, showmanship works, because lots of showman keep getting hired to tour all over the world.

And ironic the OP mentions Neil Peart. He spins his sticks and throws them up in air, and does the hand cross over tricks too.
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Old 09-13-2013, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

I love some slick tasteful showmanship

as DED mentioned Krupa, Jones, Payne ....they were the forefathers and kings of this

what does irritate me is when it seems a drummer worked harder on his twirls than his actually drumming ....and I see it all too often

also irritating when a drummer seems to twirl out of habit ...maybe while having a conversation, or waiting between tunes..

while taking a class once with Dave Weckl ...there were about 7 of us in this master class and one guy kept twirling his stick ....Dave lost it .
he said...if you twirl that stick one more time I'll throw it across the room. I watched you perform last night , you were dragging all over the place and your fills were rushing.
learn to play drums before you twirl your stick. Please!...thank you !!

I have to admit it was kind of amazing

:)
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I love some slick tasteful showmanship

as DED mentioned Krupa, Jones, Payne ....they were the forefathers and kings of this

what does irritate me is when it seems a drummer worked harder on his twirls than his actually drumming ....and I see it all too often

also irritating when a drummer seems to twirl out of habit ...maybe while having a conversation, or waiting between tunes..

while taking a class once with Dave Weckl ...there were about 7 of us in this master class and one guy kept twirling his stick ....Dave lost it .
he said...if you twirl that stick one more time I'll throw it across the room. I watched you perform last night , you were dragging all over the place and your fills were rushing.
learn to play drums before you twirl your stick. Please!...thank you !!

I have to admit it was kind of amazing

:)
That is awesome!!!

I've seen Dave in clinic and that sounds like something he would say. Not to mention, twiling a stick in a master class is sort of disrespectful to whomever is giving the class. Was he really trying to impress Dave Weckl with a stick twirl?
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I love some slick tasteful showmanship

as DED mentioned Krupa, Jones, Payne ....they were the forefathers and kings of this

what does irritate me is when it seems a drummer worked harder on his twirls than his actually drumming ....and I see it all too often

also irritating when a drummer seems to twirl out of habit ...maybe while having a conversation, or waiting between tunes..

while taking a class once with Dave Weckl ...there were about 7 of us in this master class and one guy kept twirling his stick ....Dave lost it .
he said...if you twirl that stick one more time I'll throw it across the room. I watched you perform last night , you were dragging all over the place and your fills were rushing.
learn to play drums before you twirl your stick. Please!...thank you !!

I have to admit it was kind of amazing

:)
He must have been embarrassed..................I've always enjoyed watching "entertaining" drummers.........but it can get out of hand
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brady View Post
That is awesome!!!

I've seen Dave in clinic and that sounds like something he would say. Not to mention, twiling a stick in a master class is sort of disrespectful to whomever is giving the class. Was he really trying to impress Dave Weckl with a stick twirl?
yeah bro...Dave takes no s*%t trust me

...and I think the guy was just one of those habit twirlers who does it and has no idea he is doing it ....one of the most annoying kind in my opinion
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  #28  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

As for drummers that make being a drummer look awesome and glamorous, I'd say Arejay Hale of Halestorm is great. He inspires me because he's not afraid to look like he's having fun behind his kit.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Showmanship behind the drums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetadraw View Post
As for drummers that make being a drummer look awesome and glamorous, I'd say Arejay Hale of Halestorm is great. He inspires me because he's not afraid to look like he's having fun behind his kit.
Good call. Stewart Copeland got me back into drumming after I took in an early Police gig. He was having so much fun behind the kit and making this wonderful noise at the same time, and without resorting to stupid stick twirling.
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