DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #41  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:43 AM
alparrott's Avatar
alparrott alparrott is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 6,627
Default Re: Play exact?

Discussed also in this thread: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ht=cover+exact
__________________
Al Parrott
"Jus suum cuique"
-------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:55 AM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,213
Default Re: Play exact?

No rules, do what you like, but if its not the right fit for the audience then there is maybe no appeal. Then perhaps gigs will not come your way. Maybe that matters, maybe not.

I personally don't like a cover band that plays everything note for note. Make it your own.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-09-2013, 04:34 AM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Play exact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksticks6977 View Post
I would like to know everyone's feeling on playing songs exact in a cover band. I agree that certain parts of songs that are important for the song. But should we be able to throw our own stuff in without overplaying?
Depends on the band and its purpose. It also depends on the tune. You know, if I was playing a Rush tune, I'd probably play it pretty close to note-for-note because THAT is the point and that's what people want to hear. You play Tom Sawyer, people wanna hear you go, DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH...DOBEDOBEDOBEDOBECRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRA SH...BLUBBLUBBLUBBLUBB... whatever.

Most of the time, you just give it a spirited impression as not to detract from the original song but giving it your personal chops. If it's a tribute band, well, you gotta put the KISS outfit on and your Peter Criss impression....or whomever dude plays with them now. Do they still play? I hate KISS....
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-09-2013, 06:14 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is online now
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: Play exact?

You will never be criticized for playing the original parts. Can't guarantee the same if you stray too much.

The exception would be if you're expressly told to play a different part, or that the band is playing the song in a different style, in which case you should adapt accordingly.

But I've never heard of a drummer in a cover band ever getting chewed out because they stuck to the script.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-09-2013, 06:58 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Play exact?

You should be able to play it exactly like the original. Then think (or check out recordings) of how that band played it live and be able to do exactly that. Then, if you have something to contribute on top of that or your band adds to the arrangement, it becomes you, playing the song. You are never going to sound exactly like the original drummer or anyone else for that matter. But by striving to, you enlarge your vocabulary and become better.

It's also much more than transcribing the patterns or fills. It's copping the groove. Making people believe the song. Things like Chaka Khan's Ain't Nobody, or Maroon 5's Sunday Morning are harder than the come out on paper. To get that groove with the hitches and pulses right is the goal. Then when you feel something is appropriate and you bring yourself to the party, you are already in the song and won't throw it off.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-09-2013, 07:07 AM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Play exact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
You will never be criticized for playing the original parts. Can't guarantee the same if you stray too much.

The exception would be if you're expressly told to play a different part, or that the band is playing the song in a different style, in which case you should adapt accordingly.

But I've never heard of a drummer in a cover band ever getting chewed out because they stuck to the script.

Bermuda
I always wanted to be in a hardcore punk band that covered Bob Seger songs and call it MOB SEGER. Just imagining "Night Moves" at 220bpm's with screaming vocals kills me.

Which brings me to my second project which would be a band that did satires to Weird Al satires.... now THAT would rule!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-09-2013, 07:10 AM
nuclearelf's Avatar
nuclearelf nuclearelf is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Akron,OH
Posts: 39
Default Re: Play exact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Ballard View Post
Depends on the band and its purpose. It also depends on the tune. You know, if I was playing a Rush tune, I'd probably play it pretty close to note-for-note because THAT is the point and that's what people want to hear. You play Tom Sawyer, people wanna hear you go, DUH-DUH-DUH-DUH...DOBEDOBEDOBEDOBECRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRASHCRA SH...BLUBBLUBBLUBBLUBB... whatever.
I would agree with that. When I was in cover bands in the 90's, the older songs that everybody's heard a million times (Paranoid, War Pigs,Sin City, any Kiss) we would jazz up, but the newer songs at the time (Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, STP) we would stick pretty close to the original. The band I'm in now, we play some covers at the end of the night. Mother(Pink Floyd), Go to Hell (Cooper) and Learn to Fly (Foo Fighters) we play normal, but Fortunate Son and Whole Lotta Love, we changed up and really go crazy with them. That was a band decision. But even with Whole Lotta Love, I'll still try to do Bonham-like fills just to keep the feel.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-09-2013, 07:42 AM
Ian Ballard's Avatar
Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Posts: 734
Default Re: Play exact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearelf View Post
I would agree with that. When I was in cover bands in the 90's, the older songs that everybody's heard a million times (Paranoid, War Pigs,Sin City, any Kiss) we would jazz up, but the newer songs at the time (Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, STP) we would stick pretty close to the original. The band I'm in now, we play some covers at the end of the night. Mother(Pink Floyd), Go to Hell (Cooper) and Learn to Fly (Foo Fighters) we play normal, but Fortunate Son and Whole Lotta Love, we changed up and really go crazy with them. That was a band decision. But even with Whole Lotta Love, I'll still try to do Bonham-like fills just to keep the feel.
The last "cover" band I was in, mostly we just did creative interpretations of the songs, some we outright changed for either technical reasons (because the bass player couldn't play 11/8 for "Whippin Post") or just because we wanted to. The one exception was "Rocking in the Free World" because, well, it's not possible to play it any other way. The drunk cougars and biker dipsticks LOVED IT!!! We got big tips and they were happy. Bottom line. Are people diggin' it? I mean, if you're playing cover tunes, the audience are not usually discerning music listeners of high class, let's face it. It's drunk rednecky sorts of people and that's OK. Love 'em! Just get up there, kick butt and have fun and the crowd will too. We did some cool stuff like "Funk #49" too and "Rocky Mountain Way"... I mean, what drummer DOESN'T like playing THAT song? You get to do all kinds of permuted 6/8 grooves and displacements of the beat, etc.

Oh... and Skynard. Man, the cougars and bikers love Skynard, man! We even got to play Led Zep... but I had to sing it because they singer dude couldn't hit the Plant notes and he didn't have the tight pants and package to pull if off.

Covers... I miss 'em.

I also love how BLOOZ bands refuse to call themselves 'cover bands'. It's like it diminishes the art or something. It's like a sacrilege to compare 'covers of classic rock tunes' to 'standards by the great bloozmen'. It's funny. As an objective freelancer who plays ANYTHING FOR MONEY such as I, I have to occasionally stand back and take an anthropological view of the bands I'm in. It's like the guy who hangs with the natives, puts the grass skirt on, eats the worms... but then gets back on the plane and goes back to his flat in London...only, I don't live in London.

Last edited by Ian Ballard; 08-09-2013 at 07:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:31 AM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,896
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

It depends.

A sort of party/bar band that plays old hits, the it's natural to do it pretty close, though even then, enless the breaks are really inportant part of the song and the hi-hat part has to be exactly the same and so on, it's natural to take some liberties.

Some classic song have been done in so many version already, and also have such a strong simple melody, that it's fully up to you and it would take a lot to mess them up.

Most of my gigs though we already have such a different ensemble and choice of instrument, we also have to consider what naturaly works in the venue, that things may get really different. What ever sounds the best and seems to work really.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-09-2013, 06:39 PM
Souljacker's Avatar
Souljacker Souljacker is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 530
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

I'm in an original band that play 2/3 covers in our set. I stick to the original parts by and large.

We do a slower version of Feelin' Good (Nina Simone) and I put a bit of my own spin on it. I suppose it's more like the Muse version really.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-09-2013, 07:52 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is offline
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,249
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

I end up doing something that is basically my interpretation of the original. It's not an exact match, but it hits all the major points and will pass scrutiny by the cover police.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:04 PM
Muckster's Avatar
Muckster Muckster is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I'm right behind you.
Posts: 1,921
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

There are certain tunes that have mandatory fills, beats and accents that must be adhered to. I think they are fairly obvious and what the crowd will react to and expects to hear.

No matter how well you played throughout the set, if you can't nail the intro to "American Band" or "Stranglehold" for example, then in the eyes of the crowd, you suck.

My pet peeve is musicians that have the chops but don't take the time to learn those said parts.
__________________
Max Roach did it, Elvin Jones did it, but Roy Haynes didit and didit and didit.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:11 PM
Les Ismore's Avatar
Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 5,752
Default Re: Play exact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
You will never be criticized for playing the original parts. Can't guarantee the same if you stray too much.

The exception would be if you're expressly told to play a different part, or that the band is playing the song in a different style, in which case you should adapt accordingly.

But I've never heard of a drummer in a cover band ever getting chewed out because they stuck to the script.

Bermuda

And the reason they'd get chewed out is b/c it could be seen as somewhat disrespectful to the other band members who've learned their parts. What drummers most sometimes fail to understand in all their creative goodness is that the other musicians in the band learn their parts from the of the original (or the agreed upon version) of the song(s).

So as an example the vocalist learned their part(s) listening to the drums track that was recorded, not what you decide to play in the moment... meaning if you deviate and slip drum stuff in places the vocalist/other musicians didn't hear in the original, and/or drum stuff is missing, or in a different place, it makes it harder for the others b/c they're looking to your drum part for cues, cues they learned the song to.

They're counting on the drums to be their meter/road map with proper signage (set-ups/fills accents etc.) and if those cues aren't in the right place, or don't exist at all it could become more difficult. This is why when doing covers 'most' musicians like to work with drummers who play their parts as closely to the original as possible. Simplifying the groove due to lack of ability is OK, but breaks, accents, fills/set-ups and timing should all be recognizable.

Copying another drummers work/parts rates as one of the most difficult things to do musically. Playing your own original songs is easy b/c you're never going to attempt to do something you can't already do, or change the groove etc. like play a bossa groove over what you originally recorded as a rock beat. Continuity, that's what people are expecting to hear, that's the primal fluid, the blood of the drums.


Cover bands are comfort bands, they don't challenge, they don't make you think, they're a good time without the effort, you know what's coming and that's comforting to people when they want to get pissed, dance and have a good time. They know when they hear the first note of a certain song that they'll be able to dance to it etc. Change that with your imposed creativity and the beloved song becomes a subjective display of your own interpretation.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:51 PM
MisterZero's Avatar
MisterZero MisterZero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Buffalo, New York
Posts: 361
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Even the professionals change their stuff live. Ever listen to "Dreams, I'm never gonna see" live? Tottaly different drums. Fills are in others spots, some fills gone altogether....some songs are made to be played on stage differently than in the studi. Especially those with a lot of studio 'magic" recorded in.
__________________
Gretsch Maple Renown, Cherry Burst
Sabian AA
Vic Firth 7A
Gibraltar
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-09-2013, 10:42 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is online now
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Here's an analogy that may hit home (at least with the US drummers...)

Suppose you've studied very hard to be a world class chef. It's your passion, your dream, all you really want to do in life. You want to create new dishes, new cooking techniques, and enjoy the recognition and pay that goes along with being a successful chef. You're bursting with ideas.

But, when you take a job as the line cook at Denny's, you'd be smart to make the Super Bird™ just like it appears on the menu, or you'll be out of a job.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-09-2013, 10:52 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is online now
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterZero View Post
Even the professionals change their stuff live.
But, they're not playing in cover bands. If they're the original drummer, they're entitled to change their own parts within their own group.

A bar crowd isn't interested in how well a local band or drummer can alter a familiar song.

There are obviously some exceptions. Dread Zeppelin built a tidy little career doing what they do, and they do it very well. It's their gimmick, and it's also great. But the vast majority of cover bands do best when they stick to the script.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:23 PM
MrInsanePolack's Avatar
MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 2,632
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

I've always taken the time to learn cover songs note for note. It is both respectful to the song and original drummer. It makes me cringe when I hear another drummer either be lazy and not completely learn the song, or try to be creative and manipulate the song as they see fit. This is if you are sticking to the genre of the original.

Now say you are doing a country version of a metal song, then sure modify the song to fit the context. The original may be completely unknown to the crowd, and a country crowd probably wouldn't be too happy with a metal song in the middle of a country set. But I still say learn the song first, then manipulate.

If anything, it will make you a better listener and musician if you can replicate music note for note.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:02 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is online now
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
I've always taken the time to learn cover songs note for note. It is both respectful to the song and original drummer.
Speaking of the original drummer on a recording, does anyone really believe they're going to play a more appropriate or better part than the original drummer? If those parts weren't what the drummer, the artist, and the producer wanted, they wouldn't have been recorded and released in the first place.* They're the parts that make the song worth playing, and that goes for the guitar, bass, keys, etc. Does the vocalist re-write the lyrics? Unless it's Weird Al... no.

Bermuda

* Some of you may remember that Zappa re-recorded some of the parts - drums in particular - on a few of his earlier albums, claiming that his drummers back in the day didn't play exactly what he wanted at the time (or that in hindsight, he simply didn't like the parts... I forget which.) Anyway, CDs were re-issued, and met with horrible reviews. Even though Frank himself created the "corrected" recordings, the fans didn't like them. They wanted the originals that they were familiar with, the ones that contained "all of the right parts" (as Frank was once quoted.)
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:23 AM
bosman's Avatar
bosman bosman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 113
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Great points Bermuda!

Stuff is gonna change a little when you cover music. If it was electronic music or its impossible to get that instrument/sound, its gonna change. Backwards cymbals are pretty hard to reproduce i.e. (Stranglehold). Stuff like that. I personally always try to do the same thing as on the record. People want to hear that. Drummers in the crowd will be listening to and judging every stroke anyway ;)

Maybe this picture is relevant to some opinions here. repost from twitter
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:06 AM
Cory Bredow Cory Bredow is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 22
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

I take these in consideration, when learning the songs.
1. How often do they as a band play out?
2. How many songs / sets are played a night?
3. How many songs are unfamiliar to you in their set-list the second you join?
4. How many technical or challenging to you songs are in the set list?
5. The musical strengths or restraints of the players?
6. How often do you rehearse or play these songs as a band?

Those questions will let you know how much time you want to invest as to practicing and learning the songs...

For example when I joined my cover band 3 years back.
Their set list is 60+ songs, playing 4 sets a night, at a minimum of 43 songs a night, with no repeats, every time they'd play a show, 1 show every couple months as a hobby. Practice as a band for a few hours once a week or every other week playing maybe half the set-list songs once thru.

So on seeing their set-list. They play 5 songs I know, 15 songs I have heard the song enough from radio play and could "flub thru", 5 songs with stops/beat/tempo changes, 4 technically fast/ hard songs and the rest being songs I have never heard of or to me was not a "popular" choice by the artist. AKA a lot of work ahead!

So you work on the songs that are technically important, and float the ones THAT YOU AS A BAND FEEL are "good enough" while playing with the band. Only a drummer will know what licks there should be where, and that's IF they even play it right... IF they even know that song...

Also the other players may want to put their own spin on parts, leaving your part played by the record sounding off because of other musical changes as a band... A good cover drummer should be able to float and adapt if need be just as a good cover band can do the same.

For me a good gauge I commonly do is to actually KNOWINGLY put out a B-Side video... AKA publicly post flawed material... Then sit back and ask for the response...No response then good enough... Needless to say, no one has ever came up and said those changes you made musically sound terrible. If you have the groove of the song as a band, the band as a whole will dictate the accuracy. It is better to sound as one with a different part than to waver as a band.

Also set-list is key... If you are a bar cover band... At 40+ songs a night you have to remember hundreds of thousands of hits... In and out of time... While having the endurance to make it thru the night... Some songs will be simplified for that alone...

This is a good example of a "flub thru" AKA heard the song enough on radio; so put my time elsewhere where it was more important. Before this show there was only 1 band practice within 3 weeks of this show and this was not even a practiced song. So play it once and see for yourself, if you were not a drummer who knows how the song is played, could you really tell? and if you could, was it really that bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNZkG6lOrPU
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-14-2013, 05:22 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,882
Default Re: For those in cover bands, how much do you stray from the original drum parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosman View Post
Great points Bermuda!

Stuff is gonna change a little when you cover music. If it was electronic music or its impossible to get that instrument/sound, its gonna change. Backwards cymbals are pretty hard to reproduce i.e. (Stranglehold). Stuff like that. I personally always try to do the same thing as on the record. People want to hear that. Drummers in the crowd will be listening to and judging every stroke anyway ;)

Maybe this picture is relevant to some opinions here. repost from twitter
Oddly enough, in a cover band I sub in for Bermuda, I play the exact kit pictured in the "You're Hired" box. But the other reason for using that size kit is that the stage is really small and I can't get anything else in there!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com