playing soft ( at rehearsal )

ingvald

Member
Hey guys! Today i went to a practice session with some guys and i had prepared the 2 songs we were going to play for the rehearsal. The drumming in the songs are really, really hard hitting so naturally enough i practiced them at a really high volume. Here´s one of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILLW66JjHko

At the session we were all playing very soft, and i dont really wanna tell the guys and girls to put up the volume, because we were playing at a really comfortable "non earprop" volumelevel, but i cannot really FEEL IT when i´m supposed to play these kinds of songs at a mezzopiani - level.

It just doesn´t make sense to me... how can i get the really punky heavy energy from a crashing cymbal groove without playing really hard? I don´t understand because to make the crash cymbal really open up and sing i NEED to play it loud. This also counts for the snare drum ( my cymbals are dark and very fine cymbals ). This kind of music just doesnt feel the same at that volume level...

Please don´t misunderstand me... i LOVE playing light jazz and so on, but in some kinds of music of do feel there is some kind of necseceraity to play really hard to get the energy out... This has REALLY been bothering me the last months... is it just me? or my drums? or the other guys in the band? I´m really having hard time about this :/

Any thoughts? Please help me!

Thanks guys!
 
If the band if focusing on volume for the sake of not being too loud. I don't think that making your instrument "open up" should be of any concern to you.

For situations like this, I try to synthetically create the feel in my brain while still playing at a low dynamic level. For me, I still feel like I am in the groove and music, but I am not killing people's ears.

playing at low volumes also opens up opportunity to get feel at that dynamic as well as learning drum set volume balance.
 
You should rehearse how you will play on stage.
 
Wow...two absolutely satisfying but VERY different answers :/

I should clarify that i appreciate volume limitations both on and off the stage for various reasons beyond our control. But rehearsal should be no different than how the tunes will be played live to avoid any surprises or "volume wars" be it a loud gig or soft gig.
 
I should clarify that i appreciate volume limitations both on and off the stage for various reasons beyond our control. But rehearsal should be no different than how the tunes will be played live to avoid any surprises or "volume wars" be it a loud gig or soft gig.

I didn't see anything about an actual performance, hence my post.

If you are actually going to play in front of people. Try to play at the same volume you will at the performance during rehearsal. If this is for fun and to hang out, don't worry about feel that much.
 
You don't have to justify playing loud man. Seems people worry about being thought of as less skilled if they admit to playing loud.

Like someone else said, practise how you'll play it live or you'll regret it.

Also drums timbre changes significantly and for that music the drums just don't sound right when they aren't given some juice.

This is something band members mentioned to me when I forced us to turn down and see how it went. The drum sound didn't do it for them anymore and didn't resemble what we usually sound like or feel like and that of course means everyone else in the bands levels are influenced directly by the drummers.

Wear ear plugs and get the right sound rather than compromise for the sake of what exactly?
 
You should be able to play with the same "feel" at louder dynamics as you do at quiet dynamics. If, for some reason, you find yourself unable to, then you just found a new thing to practice...

I did not mean feel as in feel of grooves more feel of sound. The sound does not 'hit' you the same when played at more mellow levels, even mif you mic it, it's a loud version of a softer sound. Does that make sense?
 
I did not mean feel as in feel of grooves more feel of sound. The sound does not 'hit' you the same when played at more mellow levels, even mif you mic it, it's a loud version of a softer sound. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. It depends on the thickness of shells, drum heads, and cymbals but they all require at least a little bit of power to open up. I can certainly play a groove comfortably without hearing protection, but once I get into the music I will start playing at a volume that produces a drum sound suiting that particular song, and that requires hearing protection in 99/100 times for me, jazz included.
 
I did not mean feel as in feel of grooves more feel of sound. The sound does not 'hit' you the same when played at more mellow levels, even mif you mic it, it's a loud version of a softer sound. Does that make sense?

Yes, you can excite various overtones from a drum by playing different volumes, different areas on the head, with different sticks, with rimshots or stickshots, etc. If you play a snare drum quietly, but want it to sound like you're playing loud, play either rimshots or halfway between the center and rim for the big "ballad" sound. Part of playing an instrument is about being able to sculpt the sound how you want it, and being able to coax that sound out. Also, knowing the limitations of your instrument and own ability level. Just like you can get several different sounds out of a hand drum by employing variations of hand techniques, or out of a trumpet by variations in your embouchure, or out of a guitar by how much flesh from your fingers is touching the strings...it's all about learning to finesse your instrument to the point where you can express what you want through it.
 
Yes, you can excite various overtones from a drum by playing different volumes, different areas on the head, with different sticks, with rimshots or stickshots, etc. If you play a snare drum quietly, but want it to sound like you're playing loud, play either rimshots or halfway between the center and rim for the big "ballad" sound. Part of playing an instrument is about being able to sculpt the sound how you want it, and being able to coax that sound out. Also, knowing the limitations of your instrument and own ability level. Just like you can get several different sounds out of a hand drum by employing variations of hand techniques, or out of a trumpet by variations in your embouchure, or out of a guitar by how much flesh from your fingers is touching the strings...it's all about learning to finesse your instrument to the point where you can express what you want through it.

Well that's as much trying to 'cheat' a sound out of lack of correct dynamic as using hot-rods and the sound would be equally lacking. There is no substitute for hitting a drum hard and loud when it is needed. The amount of air being pushed can not be 'manipulated' by these methods.

I'm not being argumentative here and I agree with what you are saying for the most part but, I could never fob any of my band members off with that, ever. And they aren't just 'daft rock' guys before anyone labels them so. The are all very experienced and educated players and producers.

I guess what I'm saying is, you can't beat the real thing, which is exactly what you said before about playing quietly.
 
Well that's as much trying to 'cheat' a sound out of lack of correct dynamic as using hot-rods and the sound would be equally lacking. There is no substitute for hitting a drum hard and loud when it is needed. The amount of air being pushed can not be 'manipulated' by these methods.

I'm not being argumentative here and I agree with what you are saying for the most part but, I could never fob any of my band members off with that, ever. And they aren't just 'daft rock' guys before anyone labels them so. The are all very experienced and educated players and producers.

I guess what I'm saying is, you can't beat the real thing, which is exactly what you said before about playing quietly.

What I got from this post is: "Who cares if you are the loudest instrument in the room and no one can hear each other. Play as hard as you need to to get the sound out of the drum."
 
I guess what I'm saying is, you can't beat the real thing, which is exactly what you said before about playing quietly.

What I said before was that you can play quietly with the same feel. Of course there will be some timbral difference, but the question in the OP that I zeroed in on was about how to play with the same feel as when playing with louder "really punky heavy energy". The answer is simple: practice.
 
What I said before was that you can play quietly with the same feel. Of course there will be some timbral difference, but the question in the OP that I zeroed in on was about how to play with the same feel as when playing with louder "really punky heavy energy". The answer is simple: practice.

Of course and I get that but, I'm talking about the real thing vs just a substitute that will get you through and that is pretty much the excact same argument you had before about playing quietly and playing with hot-rods. Practise, practise, practise.

Mr.Pockets - not quite sure how you came up with that response. Maybe if you read the last line and the last line only?

When I've played loud like this it is because I have been told to by other musicians, they cran their gear up so I have to hit hard because the timbre and sound of the drums is not the same and doesn't do it for them.

Is that good enough?
 
When I've played loud like this it is because I have been told to by other musicians, they cran their gear up so I have to hit hard because the timbre and sound of the drums is not the same and doesn't do it for them.

Is that good enough?

But the OP specifically states the low sound volume of the rest of the band. It's the exact opposite situation as you. The OP should worry more about his sound volume within the band than the timbre. It was previously stated that there are more ways to hit a drum to get a pleasing sound at a low volume.

Clearly the band is okay with his sound because they haven't said anything.
 
But the OP specifically states the low sound volume of the rest of the band. It's the exact opposite situation as you. The OP should worry more about his sound volume within the band than the timbre. It was previously stated that there are more ways to hit a drum to get a pleasing sound at a low volume.

Clearly the band is okay with his sound because they haven't said anything.

They are ok with the sound or unaware there is a problem. He did say he wanted to hit harder to get that feel but, didn't want to ask them to turn up. Maybe it's something he should bring up with them, try out more than one way and see what works best for everyone?
 
But the OP specifically states the low sound volume of the rest of the band. It's the exact opposite situation as you. The OP should worry more about his sound volume within the band than the timbre. It was previously stated that there are more ways to hit a drum to get a pleasing sound at a low volume.

Clearly the band is okay with his sound because they haven't said anything.

Did you even listen to the song that the OP posted? It's not exactly a low volume tune. In this case, it's not really a matter of being able to play at all dynamics etc etc, that song is a loud volume rock song. Are they supposed to play nice and softly on a live gig as well? No ear plugs? I'm sure that crowd of teenage rockers just loves some nice and quiet music.

OP: Tell your band to get some ear plugs and turn the amps up, or switch genre.
 
The YT example provided doesn't sound like the drums are being hit that hard to me. I don't see why you can't recreate that vibe at a lower volume. Drummers have to adjust their volume for the room and the volume level of the rest of the band. There is no reason why that song can't be played at a lower volume and still kick ass.

As much as ingvald doesn't want to hear this, the truth is that a drummer needs to be able to play any song at wildly varying volume levels and still cook. If you turned down the volume of the recording, no intensity is lost, just the overall volume. Same exact principle. Granted, it takes a refined technique to be able to play soft without sacrificing intensity. It's not easy. It's hard. That's why it sounds so great when a drummer can do it. Ingvald stated that he/she (sorry can't tell gender) can't FEEL the song at a lower volume. Basically, inside, you are feeling the song as it is originally recorded, with all the intensity. Except you have to keep the drum volume appropriate for the room.

With all due respect, it's a mental thing in thinking that you HAVE to hit hard to get the intensity. Flat out not true. It's also a technique thing, meaning you have to be effective at a lower dynamic. For instance a rimshot can be played very quietly and still retain all of it's intensity. It's the relation to the rest of the kit that's the issue. The snare still needs to pop, in relation to the rest of the kit. It's also a security thing because it has to be understood...and totally accepted.... that intensity is not tied to volume. You have to be secure knowing that a lower dynamic doesn't necessarily mean that it's a lower intensity unless you want it that way. Volume does not equal intensity every day of the week. Mostly it's a perception thing where you THINK you have to slam the drums. You don't. You do have to maintain the volume relationship with the rest of the kit, albeit at a lower dynamic, that's all.

Record yourself at a lower volume and listen back. You'll be surprised.
 
Band practice for my band is a way to refine parts to make the song flow better and make everything fit and groove. Yes, even punk/indie can groove. We don't need everything on 11 to do that. Our practice space is small so we play at about 75% volume and it works great and we can actually hear everything which is the point of practice, is it not?
 
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