Listeners or Analysts ?

I used to spend time locked between two very expensive loudspeakers listening to every nuance of music. I have long since abandoned that fruitless and expensive pasttime.

The average listener does seem to heavily favor dancible music. Does it have a good beat? They don't seem to read into anything, except they get wrapped around lyrics. Sometimes they get too wrapped up in lyrical interpretation.

When I hear a tune I evaluate it on many levels. First and foremost:what did the drums contribute? How do they sound? Did he overplay? What is the drummer doing to support or elevate the music?

Once I get past that, I go into the structure, lyrics and so on. I have a tendency to categorize and score efforts.

The bottom line with any of it is how the music makes me feel. The gut reaction that says "What am I getting out of this?"

Great point on lyrics. I feel so many layers can be conveyed through music where lyrics don't stand a chance - I'm guessing it's the subtlety of good music that causes this. In my mind, music is always king.

My typical reaction listening to any band is more why a musician played a part to a given musical context (especially a drummer's choice for a particular fill or groove for a song since I'm more conversant with drums). Along the same lines, I tend to find myself wondering how I would play to song differently and other possible permutations.
 
I don't like doing straight covers and the same goes for people with transcription. I just don't see the point in learning songs exactly a lot of the time - surely the right feel of the song is more important - to mindset yourself rather than simply replicate the notes. Simple replication often just doesn't interest me.

Transcriptions are valuable in a teaching situation; but even there again, I would rather have my students realize the value of interpretation and learning to interpret a chart than to "cover" a song. Where I live, in NY as well I be in parts of England I am sure, the tribute thing has gotten so out of hand. There is infinitely more value in learning how to put your own creative spin on a piece of music than transcribing and playing a Bonham solo note for note.
 
Anytime I've ever listened to a great piece of music, I find myself reacting to a bass line, or a guitar riff, a horn solo, or a little drum thing at the end of a chorus, a harmonic structure, or groove that's happening just so...

I have found myself doing the same thing all my life and others at times think I am nuts at how excited I get over the nuances of certain pieces.[/COLOR]
The 'music' within the music.

...I listen to a soloist, and I'm analyzing his choice of notes where he going with it etc.. I marvel at the drummers sophistication of the subdivisions...

I also find a lot of other musicians doing the same thing when they listen to music.

Often when I've tried to share this excitement with friends or family who might not be musicians, I go " hey, isn't that bass line incredible!!!!? and they have no idea what I'm getting so worked up about.

I hear the yeah, all right thing a lot! But to me it is marvelous

Which leads me to wonder if musicians listen differently from normal people ? ( cough.. )

Are we fated to not just simply enjoy music in a wholesome way? Are we destined never to ever utter the words, " that's a nice song" ? Are we doomed to either love or hate every piece of music that we ever "scrutinize"?

I always thought I was enjoying music in a wholesome way...it is to me anyway and to you as well.
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Transcriptions are valuable in a teaching situation; but even there again, I would rather have my students realize the value of interpretation and learning to interpret a chart than to "cover" a song. Where I live, in NY as well I be in parts of England I am sure, the tribute thing has gotten so out of hand. There is infinitely more value in learning how to put your own creative spin on a piece of music than transcribing and playing a Bonham solo note for note.

It's not so bad over here (and I'm near London at the moment) but I agree. Transcription is important as a technical exercise, I understand that - but I think 'mindset playing' is far more important. Working out 'why' things were done rather than necessarily note-for-note playing is far more valuable to me. It gives you much more insight into the music and the motivations behind it rather than just blind note-playing. Tribute bands are great once in a while and it is lucrative as a career for many musicians - but constant retrospection gets us nowhere.
 
Working out 'why' things were done rather than necessarily note-for-note playing is far more valuable to me. It gives you much more insight into the music and the motivations behind it rather than just blind note-playing.

That's exactly the reason why I use them, to ask, why does this fill work so well. How does it relate to the rest of the song? to the groove? And once you get into that kind of detailed nuance of analysis you are becoming a musician, and I think that is what Abe is referring to.

But I for one, do like simple songs, and as a writer myself, I know how deceptively simple a song like The Eagles Love Will Keep Us Alive or Brittaney's Womanizer can be. When I first heard that I thought, man that is a #1 hit. If I could write hits like that, I most certainly would do it. :)
 
Great thread Aydee.

This analyst way of listening is definately no curse. It allows musicians to fully appreciate the music and inspires us to create as well. Although overlistening can sometimes take away from the initial emotional reaction to a certain peice of music, I bet non musicians get bored of songs much quicker than the rest of us.

Reminds me of a fight with my ex at an Incubus concert some time ago. She asked me why I wouldn't sing along with her. I told her I go to shows to listen. Bad move - it's the truth, it just came out all wrong.

By the way MFB, how can you train your ear to hear such low frequencies? Pretty impressive..
 
An interesting topic to discuss. My personal opinion is that Listening and Analysing are both important to apply. We listen to learn, remind, enjoy and We analyse to assess, evaluate every minimum detail of each musical instrument been played, including vocals.

All the Best,
 
WTFOI; it was 19.5KHz. Not 19.5Hz. I'd be incredibly surprised if I heard 19.5Hz!
 
well for me i tend to analyze songs and often say to family members (non-musicians) did u just hear that fill how it complemented the music? and they just look at me because they just dont understand.. or just certain inflections that denote the feel of a song will keep me coming back and just studying it.

Even in pop music there can be something that catches your ear, i recently heard a song by Paramore (thats what you get) and it seemed to me that the guitar is playing a polyryhthm to what the drummer is doing..he was playing in 3 and the drummer was doing a simple rock beat in four since we're drummers i just think o that's pretty cool and i try to explain it to a non-musician and they look at me like I have three heads.

Also, i think analyzing is really important to growing as a musician. i have been listening to so much Jeff Porcaro lately and his fills complement the song perfectly and are just so musical its mind blowing, ive been trying to emulate his approach to groove in my drumming and playing simpler and tastefully can garner so much more reaction than busting out every lick you learned...
 
Unfortunately, i always feel the first time i listen to a song is the best enjoyment i get out of listening to it. Because after the first time or first couple of times, i know what's coming next, i know where the song is going. I get enjoyment when during a song, i think (or say, if it really strikes me) "oh snap!" It is just so unexpected, and thats what i like about it. I guess that's why i like jazz a lot, because half the time i dont know what's gonna happen next, there's always that excitement factor. Jazz is like a box of chocolates, you never know whatcha gonna get.

As i listen to songs that strike me more, i want to find out what they're doing, although the song is less enjoyable to listen to. This is when i really get the urge to play the song. to get that enjoyment, you know?

eh, i would go on, but i gotta go, jazz band!!! woooo!!!!!!
 
True; Musicians who play different instruments definitely listen to music in different ways. As a drummer I always find myself gravitating toward the bass notes. If you are a drummer you always follow the low notes to see where the beat is going. I almost never remember lyrics. I hear them as a melody in the background. I listen for key words that depict a change in the rhythm. I listen to lead instruments but I get distracted by the bass and I find that I am only listening to the lead to detect the changes in the song also. This is what makes a drummer, a drummer! We are tuned in to 19.5KHz and not 19.5Hz
 
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MFB: Well that explains alot. For a minute I thought you might be superhuman.

Too bad, you may have been humanity's only hope in defending us against that 'brown note' I've heard so much about. Pretty sure the mythbusters solved that one though.
 
MFB: Well that explains alot. For a minute I thought you might be superhuman.

Too bad, you may have been humanity's only hope in defending us against that 'brown note' I've heard so much about. Pretty sure the mythbusters solved that one though.

Great episode. Since we cancelled our Sky subscription I haven't seen it. I think I'd seen all the episodes at least once anyway...
 
As a music theory geek, I actually listen to the overall arrangement and song structure first, and while I do take in the rhythm, my attention is captured or lost by the melody and harmonic structure.

I seem to be the only one here though.
 
As a music theory geek, I actually listen to the overall arrangement and song structure first, and while I do take in the rhythm, my attention is captured or lost by the melody and harmonic structure.

I seem to be the only one here though.

Nope. That's always been the way my ear has functioned too in regards to listening to music as well as also focusing how the rhythmic element fits into the overall mix.

Can be very helpful particularly when given the task of working with a composer on an arrangement in the shaping original music with a drum concept or rhythmic approach and how it can relate to the overall structure of the music {melody, harmony, sense of mood etc...} as my "ear" hears it in a general "overview" musical listening approach.
 
This reminds me of a show I saw on Discovery Channel.

When a human walks into McDonald's they smell McDonald's. When a dog walks in they smell: beef, special sauce , lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, the cleaner used on the floor, a woman's perfume, a kid's bad breath etc.

Being a musician or engineer is a little like having a dog's sense of smell.

The trick for us humans is maintaining perspective and being able to go from the "macro" view to the "micro" view and back at will.

I noticed this first when all my guitar player friends started getting into Yngwie Malmsteen years ago. They heard entire songs in his solos while most people just heard too much guitar. So one can go too far with the Micro view.
 
I noticed this first when all my guitar player friends started getting into Yngwie Malmsteen years ago. They heard entire songs in his solos while most people just heard too much guitar. So one can go too far with the Micro view.

The guy who I work for was always fighting with me about this. He would ask, "who are you to make these judgments about music?" To which I would respond, "I've been studying it for 35 years, if I can't make valid value judgments about it when do I actually get to start." One thing he's right about is that he says, "people don't listen to music. For them it's just background noise." People just want to be able to say anything is music and there are really no values of musicality that can be upheld. My argument about that has always been if music is exclusively about taste, then you could never make a positive value judgment about music that you didn't like. But we musicians do all the time. you can value something but not really enjoy listening to it. You can say I don't like Mozart or Beethoven, or Elvin Jones or Tony Williams; but you cannot say that these musicians did not radically change their world of music. I think it takes a certain sophistication to understand that distinction in itself, which most people don't have. Let 'em listen to Brittaney Spears.

I think in the USA where, unfortunately this type of approach to music is not as valued as it should or could be. And you even find this among people who talk themselves as musicians, like my employer. And I really think that this is a problem, and a significant problem; that might be my bias as a musician. But music is the food of the soul.
 
Cymbals...that's all I hear is cymbals. Seriously though, I read Aydee's original post and thought about this. I started out first gravitating towards the music that I liked (naturally). Then as time went on, and I tried to learn the actual drum or percussion parts, I focused on analyzing them seperatley. This may have been mentioned already but I don't have time to read every post, because most of my time is spent listening to Paiste soundfiles !
 
As has been mentioned, I favor doing both. However, for me, developing the skill to not analyze, to just enjoy and respond to it on an emotional level, took some doing. I still struggle sometimes when I want to listen to something for the purpose of having an emotional or cathartic experience (catharsis in the classical sense of being "moved" or "transported" to become other than we were) and I find myself getting caught up in analyzing.

What's even more difficult for me is when the analysis moves beyond curiosity and travels to the realm of judgment (e.g., comparing myself to the musicians playing, evaluating the performance, maybe thinking about how I would have played something differently, evaluating the production qualities, etc.). In any case, I've found that the ability to respond to and be moved by music spiritually and emotionally (and not letting analysis get in the way of this) is imperative in order for me to play the way I want.

Does this fit with anyone else's experience?

spleen
 
Anytime I've ever listened to a great piece of music, I find myself reacting to a bass line, or a guitar riff, a horn solo, or a little drum thing at the end of a chorus, a harmonic structure, or groove that's happening just so...

The 'music' within the music.

...I listen to a soloist, and I'm analyzing his choice of notes where he going with it etc.. I marvel at the drummers sophistication of the subdivisions...

I also find a lot of other musicians doing the same thing when they listen to music.

Often when I've tried to share this excitement with friends or family who might not be musicians, I go " hey, isn't that bass line incredible!!!!? and they have no idea what I'm getting so worked up about.

Which leads me to wonder if musicians listen differently from normal people ? ( cough.. )

Are we fated to not just simply enjoy music in a wholesome way? Are we destined never to ever utter the words, " that's a nice song" ? Are we doomed to either love or hate every piece of music that we ever "scrutinize"?


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You always start the most interesting threads, Abe. I thought about this too because I think I'm both an analyst an a listener. I think a great piece of music takes years to enjoy, internalize, deconstruct, study, etc. A good song can last a lifetime...each listen giving you some new piece of insight or even ideas of your own. Listening to a broad range of music both complex and simple helps me to keep a balance. I can listen to a Beatles tune and turn my brain off or pop in some Tool and pick apart the time signatures, polyrhythms, and all the other tiny gears that make the machine move.

I did this to an extent before drumming but now I definitely analyze as much (or more) now. I didn't understand the communication between the members of the band like I do now...which has added a whole new dimension.

Yeah, it's all good!
 
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