Finally, after more than 30yrs > Kit building thoughts and advice

TSL

Junior Member
Noob here. Caught percussion bug from mom's brother in the 60's. Taught myself on various kits in the 70's. Never had my own kit. Either couldn't afford it, or couldn't justify it against other (husband/parent/mortgage-holder) expenses. Haven't been behind a kit since college - 1983.

Planets are aligning finally after 30+ years of dreaming. My own kit.

But I am discovering that I may have an odd sense of how to build this kit. And so I wish to bounce my thought processes off of your virtual walls here and correct any glaring misconceptions prior to spending any $.

Let me start with some precursor statements: 1) This kit is for me, in my (now) spacious 3 car garage to once again "lose myself" for hours at a time. 2) I am not starting this out looking for a show kit - I am not looking to join any band; at least not now. 3) Perhaps it is my naivete speaking, born of never having my own kit, but I am about the sound and feel. I don't care if the shells match color, mfr, construction, or materials - they just need to work together. I don't care if the cymbal mfrs match. I don't care if the hardware matches. It just has to all work. Nuff said there.

My inclination - and this is the heart of my query to you - is to start this process by focusing first on my ride. For some reason I can't easily define, I see the ride, snare and hats - in that order - are going to be the heart of my kit.

I want an old, huge, dark, heavy 4000+ g ride with a huge multi-toned bell that can pierce any din; and so much real estate that it would require years to find all the sound possibilities. I want a deep throaty snare. And I want a dark, larger, heavier set of hats that also have a broad range.

But finding that ride first is where I continue to find myself. Not a base kit, not hardware, not even a throne, but that ride. I picture myself testing out various candidates with stick butt bell strikes; closing my eyes and slowly running a stick head from the base of the bell to the edge - repeatedly - looking to elicit it's full range. I see myself splaying a loose brush over it, again with closed eyes, listening for it's more eclectic possibilities.

Is this nuts? Or is it all so subjective that I am wasting my time asking? Is starting with the ride, when you have literally no other equipment but some sticks and brushes, a mistake?

Tell me. Please. I am all ears.

Cheers, and thanx.
TSL
 
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First off, welcome to the forum!

I gave up drumming in 1986 & came back to it 3 years ago, so I have a degree of empathy with your thinking right now. I would expect your perspective to change. Not joining a band? Yeah, right. I'll have you a serious bet you can't resist that within the first year back. You'll fall in love with this drumming lark, then want to express your joy through the creation of music with others. You'll crave the power that only a live band can bring out of your kit, irrespective of genre.

Ok, that out of the way. Crazy for concentrating on your ride cymbal? Well, no, not really, unless you regard all jazz players as crazy (hmm, now I mention it :) ). Focus of kit = snare, bass drum, ride & hats. Choose any one of those elements as your numero uno, but the reality is, they're better chosen in a set context (not necessarily matching though), as they are the very essence of the kit. Everything else is sound palate candy.

If you truly want a ride cymbal that takes decades to explore, there's only one direction to head for, & that's a hand hammered Turkish cymbal. 4,000g is damn heavy, or damn big. I'm a lower tier endorsee for Amedia cymbals, so I know a bit about bronze bashing, and such a beast as you describe exists within their capability, but trying it out first wouldn't be an option. It would need to be bespoke made according to your requirements. If you can come down from 4,000g, to say 2,700g, there's a bucket of Turkish wonderfulness out there just waiting to be explored. Same deal on the hats, go dark, go Turkish hand made. With these elements, buy once, buy well.

Drums: Putting together stuff that doesn't need to match visually is fine, but the easiest way of getting something that works in sonic unison is to pick up a used, preferably pro level, shell set. The snare is a different matter. Typically bought individually, this can be precisely to your requirements, & doesn't need to echo the sound palate of the shell set. Go with your gut on that, & you're likely to get it right.

One last point, be prepared to change your taste & views. As you quickly become acquainted with the whole vibe, & your knowledge increases, it's likely that your first firm thoughts & ideals morph into something else. Accordingly, don't disregard resale value in your plan.

Hey, good luck on your journey. If you need help along the way, this is the place to be.
 
i like your approach. something about your kit building vision reminded me of
Marco Giovino who plays w/ Robert Plant's "band of joy". he uses Hammerax cymbals & has a completely hybrid kit full of big, good-sounding vintage / odd stuff. check out the pic of his kit on his artist page...reminded me of your ideas & i am SURE Hammerax will have the cymbal you are looking for. they have crazy, nasty stuff. some are huge in shape, diameter w/ heavier grams. (2) of Mark's cymbals:

+ 21" Slap™ Ride Cymbal 1930g
+ 24" Indigo® Flatride Heavy Cymbal 2495g
+ http://www.hammerax.com/artists_marco_giovino.htm (2 good shots here)
+ http://www.kpbs.org/photos/2011/may/26/10773/ (another good shot)

i also think 15" hi-hats are a must.
 
Firstly, welcome back to drumming.

Second, +1 on what Andy said. Sound advice. snare, bass, hi hat, and ride make up the heart of the any kit. The toms come as a close second. For buying toms, I'd defintely try to find matching set if you can, not necessarily visually, but manufacturer and series, because they need to sound as one.

If you are looking for a really special ride, I second the hand hammered, Turkish suggestion. Istanbul Alchemy series and Bosphorus Gold series are two cymbal series I can't recommend enough for what you are looking for. 4000+ grams is damn heavy, so don't get your hopes up for that spec. The heaviest cymbals usually float around the 3500 gram area. One place to start looking, and listening to cymbals is cymbalsonly.com. The guy that runs that site is really cool, and he supplies a lot of high-end cymbals that you won't find most other places, like two series I suggested. Take a listen and figure out what you like and don't like and go from there.
 
RE: wsabol. yes, another vote for ANYTHING Bosphorus. as in, once i drank the Bos "musical koolaide", i will never buy another cymbal made by Zildjian, Sabian or Paiste. there i said it. and i have a decent sized collection of the big 3 from 70s thru 90s.
 
Umm, so looking at the likes of that currently-4-sale, $300 USD, Z 24" ping-y, @ 4530g - from which, if the sound file is to be believed, is heard EXACTLY the bell sound I am after - that would be bad?

Also, it occurs to me that perhaps I've given the wrong impression about my budget. I can squeeze about $350 out each month (to the exclusion of my diving habit), and plan to have this kit assembled by end of first qrtr 2012. I'm going to hazard a guess that anything I must order, will be cost prohibitive to my plan.

And what if I told you that late summer 1980, one Mr Grombacher changed my entire percussion outlook with his bell play in Treat Me Right - the triple bell shot + crash becoming the closest thing to a, ahem, non-sexual orgasm, to which I would ever succumb.

By the time that album came out, I had taught myself to extract the various percussion sounds from nearly every piece of music to which I listened. And I listened to everything but abstract jazz and too-too-twangy country. I sang in concert and swing/jazz choir, and "ran" the trap table in the concert band. Put me behind a kit, apply a pair of good headphones, pump through the music, and I could and would first mimic - as best the kit in front of me could provide - the sound, if not the actual play. Then I'd go back and add my own flavor. Then I made it mine alone.

After Crimes Of Passion was released, and I'd played it a good fifty times (nearly wearing it out), I pissed off more than a few drummers willing to loan me some kit time by wanting to move the ride around to the 2oclock or even 1:30 position, rather than the usual 3 or even 3:30 position. From that point forward, the influences of Mr Peart, with his walls of toms, was supplanted from the center-most of my influence sphere. And my sound changed. And ever since then, the perfect ride+snare+hat combo became my focus. Still 2 base; still lots of tom fill - if leaning to the deeper floors; still lots of non-drum percussion, but from that August forth I forever more wanted to court that giant 26 or 24 ride with the monster bell and untold acres of surface in which to get lost.

I'm sick, aren't I? How could I go almost 30 years without playing, and still close my eyes and feel that passion boiling in there. And EVERY time I hear a piece of music from that time (something that then would send me scurrying about desperately for kit time) I close my eyes and find that passion still there. I have it so bad that just hearing various technique and pattern, in these old music influences, will actually make me start to tear up. And I'm guessing the only proper therapy is to pick up the sticks again.

Now here is the absolute RIOTOUS part of my current existence: I gave up percussion 5 years prior to even meeting my wife of now 20+ years. She never knew - not a word. She has occasionally over the years caught me with a pair of the long butter/table knives (they bounce back at me brilliantly) in my hands, working complex Latin style sub rhythm fill through some appropriately percussiony music, on our lovely (thankfully bullet-proof) kitchen counter-tops. But she never went beyond the raised eye-brow response - and that, I assure you, was all about the potential damage to those counter-tops, and nothing about my eccentricities. Further, I have a son, who just recently graduated HS, and who has always been embarrassed that his and my music tastes overlap. So now they are both effectively slack-jawed at my insistence that I shall indeed forgo my diving hobby as long as necessary to build a drum kit ...

"You don't even know how to play drums!"

"Wrong."

"What are you talking about?"

"Luv, I was alive a good 20 some years before I met you. There are some things you don't know about me."

"Like what?"

"Like I 'drum' Luv. Taught myself from pure desire back in the 70's - that was the decade you were still learning to tie your own shoe laces and still jumping rope with the other little girls during recess."

"Well you don't need to be snide about it."

"Hmmm, Luv. If only you saw the look presently on your lovely face, you might concede me that indulgence. I love you, and I drum." (NEVER say "but" after "I love you").

"Well I'm not giving up my parking spot in the garage for your drum set."

"Kit."

"What?"

"The term is kit. Drum kit. And I wouldn't dream of putting you out to fulfill a life-long dream." She gives me the narrowed eyebrow bit. Cripes but she can communicate volumes with those looks. Time for a shift of focus here, "So why don't we go grab dinner across the street and I'll buy you one of those strawberry margys you love."

"Mmmhmm." Still with the eyebrows. But she grabs her purse and heads for the garage.


So, meanwhile, back at the ride, why wouldn't an old Z 24 ping be OK? Am I hopelessly missing something – is there toilet paper stuck to my shoe (if you will)?


Cheers.
TSL
 
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The Zildjian Z/Z Custom/Z3 family cymbals were meant to be loud and heavy and bright and loud. And not so much dark and complex. Now, it's just a hunk of bronze and you are the artist who defines your sound, and if you find that cymbal does what you want, then by all means, get it. But do try different cymbals.

Also, I'd agree with your wife. Unless you're buying a box of sticks that you must glue together yourself, you're looking at a drum set, not a drum kit. :)
 
TSL -- if you are into big bells, i also saw some vintage Zildjian Earth Rides on ebay. check them. yes, Grombacher ! met Myron last summer when Benatar came to ATL. prince of a guy w/ some amazing road stories (opening for Led Zep right before Bonham passed on).
 
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