Liveliness in playing

benozw12

Junior Member
Hi everyone,

I'm an amateur drummer playing for my church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-09EH_JX-k&list=UUcKRpLzPGDTn7Uk54BC1wAw

I feel my playing doesn't have punch/dynamics - the way that I hit the cymbals and all parts of drums appear rather 'dead'.

I tried analysing how the great drummers like Dave Weckl, Bernard Purdie, Jeff Porcaro, etc, play, but still not sure how to go about solving this. Should my movements be bigger and I hit harder, in order to make it appear more lively and dynamic, resulting in better groove/pocket?

Hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
 
As far as your presentation, or liveliness in appearance, it all looked normal to me. I suppose there is stick twirling......
Dynamics, different sound levels loud/quiet, should be what the music calls for, not your appearance. The music on that clip was pretty straight for dynamics, and you played it pretty straight. Don't play loud of the music doesn't call for it.

If you want more liveliness, maybe try playing along to music that has some 'swing', or more loud/quiet parts.
JMO
 
Seems like you're a little tough on yourself. What parts don't you like? You are the best one to evaluate since you know the song, and the musicians. That song doesn't have many dynamic opportunities anyway. IDK I'd just change whatever doesn't please you. I don't think you weren't lacking in liveliness. You don't want to overcompensate. A lot depends on the rest of the band. You can't make up for anything the others lack. It doesn't work. FWIW, I thought you basically played a good drum part. Everything can be refined. Going off the thread title, I was expecting something much worse TBH. So I thought you did OK.
 
I agree with Louis and Larry.

The only thing that might add a little more dynamics is when you do a fill, hit the first beat of the fill a little louder. Although you did do that a couple of times.

.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm an amateur drummer playing for my church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-09EH_JX-k&list=UUcKRpLzPGDTn7Uk54BC1wAw

I feel my playing doesn't have punch/dynamics - the way that I hit the cymbals and all parts of drums appear rather 'dead'.

I tried analysing how the great drummers like Dave Weckl, Bernard Purdie, Jeff Porcaro, etc, play, but still not sure how to go about solving this. Should my movements be bigger and I hit harder, in order to make it appear more lively and dynamic, resulting in better groove/pocket?

Hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.

This really sounds like a personality issue. Are you yourself "lively"? If you're not, then maybe the way you're presenting yourself is just the way it's going to be. Look at Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones, not very lively, but he's playing his parts. Then look at someone like Jens Hannemann (played by a well known comedian) - very lively, but not playing anything right at all.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm an amateur drummer playing for my church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-09EH_JX-k&list=UUcKRpLzPGDTn7Uk54BC1wAw

I feel my playing doesn't have punch/dynamics - the way that I hit the cymbals and all parts of drums appear rather 'dead'.

I tried analysing how the great drummers like Dave Weckl, Bernard Purdie, Jeff Porcaro, etc, play, but still not sure how to go about solving this. Should my movements be bigger and I hit harder, in order to make it appear more lively and dynamic, resulting in better groove/pocket?

Hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.

I didn't watch your video as my wife is still asleep, but the true intensity of playing should be in your touch and tone, and not in any outward bodily movement. Groove has nothing to do with how you look and everything to do with how you play. That is accomplished by locking in with other musicians, especially the bass and rhythm guitar. That is gained through practice and experience, and so you may want to experiment with some playing along to recordings if you haven't done so already.

I would also point out that church is not the place to concentrate on how you look while playing... you're not the focus =)

Hope you find what you're looking for.
 
You can only do so much with what you have. When you listen to the greats, you have to remember that the other musicians playing with the greats are a big part of that greatness. While your worship band is good and capable, with all due respect, they are not what I would consider greats. You can't make a great song alone, the rest of the band has to be on the same level. Dynamics are a whole band thing, everyone has to have a sense for it. If you drop down and the rest of the band doesn't..you could have the best sense of dynamics ever, but your band has to as well in order for it to complete the effect. Give yourself a break, you're doing fine, and keep recording and listening back. That's the one thing that will put you ahead of the curve.
 
Larry is correct.

Watch this video. It is Steve Gadd playing. A great drummer. Listen to exactly what he played. Count the numbers of fills and cymbal crashes.
Not much punch and dynamics here, but simple "effective" drumming.
Most of us here on this forum, and I suspect you, could have played it the same way.

http://youtu.be/moAR4Bb2QHI


.
 
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I played guitar once at a jam session in town with a drummer who was way too lively with dynamics (and some subdivisions, but that wasn't a big issue). We would start to get a good build-up and then, suddenly, he went from about a 7 down to 1 or 2 (on a scale of 10) both in intensity and dynamic. It felt really weird and he kept doing this all the time. Jumping up and down in dynamics and intensity. Some times building, some times not :-/ At least for me it was really frustrating. Never got to build up the music in a natural way and it almost felt like playing with a schizophrenic having an argument with himself.

Just an anecdote on how too lively dynamics almost can ruin the music :p

The best thing is to listen to the music and get a feel for where it's headed (like noted by others here before me). And in your particular case (the video posted) there isn't a vast land of opportunities for dynamic shifts. But maybe you could play the verse a tad softer and give a bit more on the chorus. I've also noted that on bigger stages where every things mic'd, more dynamics has to come from what you're playing on and not so much how hard you hit your things (like the breakdown-thingy where you play only hi hat and bass drum, that was a good dynamic shift in the song without actually playing that much softer) :)
 
Thanks for all your comments! =)

My initial thought/resolution was, if I were to, say…make more distinctive accents through greater moeller heights (like Nate Morton), hit cymbals in a more "convincing manner", more body movement (like Ndugu Chancler), then my playing would be more ‘lively and dynamic’, resulting in better feel and groove, I suppose?

I watched the Steve Gadd video. If someone else were to play exactly the same, it would still pale in comparison with Steve's? Btw, I noticed in his other videos that when the intensity of music or his playing increases, his body movement increases too. I think one example is the drum solo in the song "aja", during the 16th triplets sections.

I fully agree with what Alparrot said – that true intensity of playing lies in touch and tone. In my opinion, touch and tone lies greatly in one’s technique – how he holds the sticks and strikes the surface. Is there anything else? Side track abit, Tony Williams doesn’t use rebounds at all (due to his ring & pinky finger grip), yet he is raved about by many drummers?

For feel and groove, besides locking in with other musicians and playing along with records, would playing other genres like blues, swing, bossa nova develop more feel than rock? And I have heard the saying that if you think too much during playing, you’d lose the feel. But again, don’t we think of what to play next, how to control the dynamics of our playing, etc?

Sorry, if there seems to be too many questions.
 
Thanks for all your comments! =)

My initial thought/resolution was, if I were to, say…make more distinctive accents through greater moeller heights (like Nate Morton), hit cymbals in a more "convincing manner", more body movement (like Ndugu Chancler), then my playing would be more ‘lively and dynamic’, resulting in better feel and groove, I suppose?

Watch a clip of Steve Jordan or Charlie Watts. Do you think they are worrying about 'Moeller heights' or 'body movement' while grooving along?

Think less, feel more, just play and be yourself.
 
Working with Tobis Ralph and Pat Mastelotto last week was a great study in contrast.

Watching Pat play is like watching Animal in the Muppets. He is all over the kit, big motions, great groove / pocket, lots of obvious joy in playing.

Tobias is all economy of motion. Tremendous stick control, posture, elbows tucked in, not a lot of obvious emotion.

Both were flat killin' it in their own styles, both communicating with the audience. That's all that really matters...
 
Loads of players push through the surface they strike.

Try experimenting with the sensation of lifting a sound out of the surface you strike.

Developing a dynamic approach to how long you allow the stick to stay in contact with the surface can change the complete timbre of the instrument.

its also common for drummers to play far to hard...and 'choke' the instrument...check the force you are applying...


experiment/record/listen...rinse...repeat
 
I just watched Tobias' playing. Amazingly fast and clean - as if the next Buddy Rich.

Thanks for all your advice.

Frankly, i have been spending a lot of time researching on techniques, so much so that I miss out on playing music, widening my ideas etc. I shall shift my focus more on the latter.

Now i'm also practising to be more relaxed in my grip.
 
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