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Old 12-27-2018, 04:34 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Do your doubles sound like singles?

Just curious, because I've read/heard many times that played correctly doubles should sound like equally fast singles. But in my experience, particularly on practice pads, it just seems an impossible task. Different stick pitches, slightly different sounding spots on the practice pad, etc .... just seems to me I can always tell it's a double- or single-stroke roll.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

With equal weight sticks, proper rudimental doubles should sound even, like fast singles.

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Old 12-27-2018, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Joe Morello (in lessons) would say, “close your eyes.” He would then start playing and ask what it sounded like. I would reply, “single strokes.” I would open my eyes, and see that he would really be playing doubles, paradiddles, or another sticking combination.

One of his favorite exercises was singles, doubles, paradiddles. Play one bar of singles, one bar of doubles, and one bar of paradiddles. Then two bars of each, three bars of each, etc. up to twelve bars of each. Strive for the same sound, even though the stickings are changing.

Thanks,

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Old 12-27-2018, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

The only person I've ever seen in person make doubles and singles sound identical is Vinnie at a clinic many years ago.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's difficult.

Just my opinion anyway.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:07 AM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Okay, so the gist I get is, if you're not Vinnie or Joe Morello, it probably won't happen for you :-P

That actually makes me feel a little better!
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
Okay, so the gist I get is, if you're not Vinnie or Joe Morello, it probably won't happen for you :-P

That actually makes me feel a little better!
I would start with alternating between singles and doubles (a measure or two of each). Then, check out pg. 30 and 31 of Master Studies (book 1).

For solidifying doubles, try inverting the roll (R L L R, R L L R, etc.). For that concept, check out the exercises on the following pages of Accents and Rebounds:
pg.16 (#1,2)
pg.17 (#7,8)
pg.19 (#1,2)

I wrote a series of articles on the roll types (single stroke, double stroke, and closed rolls). They were published in Modern Drummer Magazine a while back. Here is a link to the article on the double stroke roll (which expands upon the inverted roll concept).

https://www.moderndrummer.com/articl...e-stroke-roll/

Thanks,

Jeff
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Last edited by jeffwj; 12-27-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:06 PM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Unless you're Joe or Vinnie? lol

Anyone can do it if they want to, work at it and stay in shape.

This is why we have bookes like SC, exercises like "stroke pyramid" within one subdivision etc...
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

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Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
Unless you're Joe or Vinnie? lol

Anyone can do it if they want to, work at it and stay in shape.
Absolutely. Vinnie and Joe are not gods. Just humans with tremendous ability and drive. What took them 5 years to develop might take one of us 12 years, but once you’ve got it, you’ve got it.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

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Absolutely. Vinnie and Joe are not gods. Just humans with tremendous ability and drive. What took them 5 years to develop might take one of us 12 years, but once you’ve got it, you’ve got it.
I think you might be right. Anyone who has a strong desire to do something, will find a way. It seems like it takes me eons to get better at something I'm trying to improve, but I do get better over time. I also think I don't put as much effort, and time into working on it as I say I do. If I were to actually document the exact time, and effort that I put out, it wouldn't be as much as I think I'm putting out. I'm inclined to think that a lot of us are like that, and we just think others learn easier. I have read on here and other places, that we should document exactly what we are doing so we can look at how much we really trying to achieve our goals. That's something I don't do, but know that I should. Most of the time I just sit down behind my kit and play what ever comes out. Then I say I've been working hard on "what ever it is we're talking about. Dbl. strokes is one of them. During the course of my little drumming jam, I work on Dbl. strokes, and I say I'm really working on them. When in reality I probably only worked on it for a couple of minutes. So, no, my doubles don't sound like singles. Long story.
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:33 AM
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Alain Rieder Alain Rieder is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

I feel that as a long roll on a snare or a pad, it's cool to tend to make single and double strokes sound the same.

But then, I use them within the limitations of my own technique, but in my experience, on the toms my single strokes sound much more open than my doubles, and I think it isn't wrong if they are different.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:26 PM
Push pull stroke Push pull stroke is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Rieder View Post
I feel that as a long roll on a snare or a pad, it's cool to tend to make single and double strokes sound the same.

But then, I use them within the limitations of my own technique, but in my experience, on the toms my single strokes sound much more open than my doubles, and I think it isn't wrong if they are different.
The more resonance a drum has, the harder it is to make them sound the same. I think.

Anybody want to share their experience on that?
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:57 PM
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Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

I asked Tommy Igoe this a few years back and he said that the double stroke notes should all have equal volume. That’s where the “sounding like singles” things comes from because weak doubles will always have the first stroke of the double louder than the rebound stroke.

On a pad, without any drum resonance to cloud things up, clean doubles should sound like an uninterrupted stream of equally loud notes. If your sticks are pitch paired they will sound like singles

In the end I feel one should just make the initial stroke and rebound the same volume and not worry about sounding like singles
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:46 PM
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Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
Okay, so the gist I get is, if you're not Vinnie or Joe Morello, it probably won't happen for you :-P

That actually makes me feel a little better!
No.

All you have to do is practice. People just don't focus enough on dynamic control, but they could, and should. It's not that hard, actually. With doubles, the key is to get your finger control to where you can snap the stick back down on the second hit with enough force to get your notes to match.

My second drum teacher was always a stickler about my rudiments being controlled and every note sounding the same unless I was accenting a note on purpose. You gotta "mean" everything you play.

It doesn't take 12 years, and it's just not as hard as some of you are thinking. Get a practice pad and really focus on your notes dynamics. Watch things like stick heights, where you hit the drum, what angle you hit the drum. I started out focusing on this with just alternating singles, working on getting both hands to sound the same.
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: Do your doubles sound like singles?

I like Nicholas Vicarro for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7MoN39zzMY
about 5:30- 6:30 in

also Teddy Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfshqKNW30Y
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