Frequencies and stuff, drums vs bass guitar

kettles

Gold Member
Generally speaking, what has a lower pitch, a kick drum or the low notes of a bass guitar? I'm trying gain some more thorough understanding of how all the instruments sit together. I realise this is a highly subjective question.

The guitar/bassist in my band tune to drop C (bottom string two tones below standard), and most of the riffs sit in that low C-C octave, with the guitar doing the octave above. I would prefer if they raised it slightly but that might take some convincing. My kick is a 24x18 and I don't really have any preference for tuning it (it sounds pretty good at every tuning I've thrown at it).

Should I even be thinking like this? It's a concern I have because I see so many heavy bands where the kick drum and floor toms get drowned out underneath the bass and the (usually overly bassy) guitars. And I'd like to avoid resorting to the super clicky kick tone that a lot of bands go for.

Another question. when I'm doing something with a lot of toms (eg riding on the 16" or 18" floor tom) is it reasonable to ask the bassist to shift up an octave so there is more room for my toms?
 
First, it is a really bad idea to ask someone to change what they play, unless you're in a position to do so (in other words, if it's your band and it's understood that you call the shots.) An octave is a radical change to a song, and may put the bass in the range of the guitar or keys, where they then have to battle it out.

Second, a kick can be lower, or the bass can be lower... it all depends on who's tuned where.

The best bet for the kick & bass to stay out of each other's way, is to tune in different ranges. Basically, wherever the bass likes to play - low, or with more attack - you tune the kick the opposite way. That way, both can be heard without competing in the same frequency spectrum, or trying to raise the volume of one to be heard against the other (that's always a losing battle.)

In one of my bands, the bass plays pretty low frequenceies, so I bring my 20" kick and tune it up a bit to stay out of his way and cut through. In another band, the bass plays with more attack than lows, so I bring a 24" kick and let it rumble a bit to provide some low end & thump.

Bermuda
 
I play both and never thought in terms of clashing pitch since only the kick would be in the same register but the kick isn't a defined note.

What would be more of a clash is the frequency. Both bass and toms are in the 100hz range and together that can get a little tubby. As far as having the bass play in a higher register, it all depends on where it is in the music. Does it fit or not? That's what arranging and voicing and orchestration is all about. It might work, it might sound stupid. But it'll have to be decided measure to measure.

If your band drops from E to C, most things are gonna sound LOW, now matter what. So I imagine that's what they want.
 
I think I would look for a kick tone that would compliment his low end, and since it's a 24" I'd probably hunt for something punchy to put the kick in a good place. Chances are the lower overtones would be drowned out or muddied by the low frequencies of the bass, but you should be able to still get a pretty deep kick sound before clashing with the guy.
 
First, it is a really bad idea to ask someone to change what they play, unless you're in a position to do so

Agree completely, but this particular band is very mutual, I have a lot to do with the writing and arrangements and I'm also the only one who can play all the instruments so they do take my ideas and suggestions seriously :)

Based on what you said, I now really wish I had a 20" sitting around!
 
In the end it's up the players to work with and around each other. Keys players' left hands can muddy up the bottom end too. It can be tricky.

Some ideas ... if you have two floor toms you could mute one and only use it for riding or if you want the effect. Or the bassist could either pull back or play more staccato. Or maybe riding a mounted tom would achieve a similar effect without the clash, since it will always sounder deeper out front. If you do it in a passage that repeats, one time the bass does most of the grunt and another time you pump it on the toms.

Don't fancy that clicking sound, personally, but I'm old school. Nothing wrong with blending with the bass guitar IMO as long as it's not muddy. Many a great groove has bass and bass drum pulsing together yet you have to listen hard to know who's playing what.

My 2c
 
Based on what you said, I now really wish I had a 20" sitting around!

Many drummers underestimate the range of a 20" kick, and the value of having one. If a drummer had to pick 2 kicks to cover the widest range of sounds, I'd recommend a 24" and a 20". Mic'd, there's plenty of low end in a 20" drum. The depth isn't so crucial, more of a personal preference in acoutsic situations. I have 14 and 16x20" kicks, and I love them equally.

Bermuda
 
I'd say the bass and kick are pretty far up in the mix here, and the guiitars have chunky lows as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdxFnCdlxo


It's not muddy or have too much low end. It's all about frequencies and voicing. I know this isn't the style of music you;re referring to, but frequencies are frequencies.




.
 
Back
Top