Swinging Jazz in Shifting Meters

Don't get me wrong, Polly, I'm only speaking as a non-Brubeck fan. Everyone hears and feels music differently. When someone starts talking about what music is supposed to be about, that's when I either get very bored or very suspicious.

Looks to me as though the topic of this thread has disappeared into the valley of forgotten topics, and in a small way I'm relieved. I'm not adamant enough anymore to push an agenda that will probably result in someone getting offended.

All I want to say is that in the music shown and heard in the link, the drums can absolutely swing, albeit with a little "harrumph" here and there.

No drama, J. Agree that music isn't supposed to be about anything in particular, more everything in general :)

I missed your link earlier ... once it's played by a band I can't see why it wouldn't swing (at least to my satisfaction, which maybe doesn't say much).

Everyone who's been talking about this on the thread is rational so we needn't shy away from the topic.

I'm wondering how different is your dislike of Brubeck to Bo's sensibilities in talking about people being "in college too long"? Seems to me that both of you are looking for more verve and visceral appeal, and in that you're hardly Robinson Crusoe and Friday.
 
No drama, J. Agree that music isn't supposed to be about anything in particular, more everything in general :)

I missed your link earlier ... once it's played by a band I can't see why it wouldn't swing (at least to my satisfaction, which maybe doesn't say much).

Everyone who's been talking about this on the thread is rational so we needn't shy away from the topic.

I'm wondering how different is your dislike of Brubeck to Bo's sensibilities in talking about people being "in college too long"? Seems to me that both of you are looking for more verve and visceral appeal, and in that you're hardly Robinson Crusoe and Friday.

I didn't mean to make a generalized statement about everybody, but to me I think it's partially true. Only in college did I ever play all this complicated music. Yes, it does prepare you to read stuff you wouldn't normally get a chance to play, but when I put that in context with the music that's made me money for most of my career, that ain't it.

Music was all about making people dance and have a good time. As a jazz band director told me once, he wants to feel the grease on the floor. Lots of times in college everything felt too sterile for me and when I had a chance to get out, I did. I don't think that's playing it safe, as Thaard suggests. I left a safe environment to see how I'd fare in the real world. I could've stayed in college as some do, forever, happily playing stuff nobody wants to hear. It's a very different thing when you're trying to make people happy enough to pay you for it.

So I apologize if my view is a little somewhat to the right, but me doing what I do has no bearing on my views about music. I just choose to do what I like to do now, if that means playing in 4/4 and making people groove is somehow being safe, there you go.
 
I can get that, Bo. You're the one who has to pay the bills so you know what you want and need to do.

I think many players go through a phase of trying to play complex music even though they never get to use those things in real life. Even a blundering non achiever like me played along with Crimson and Zappa and MO etc - with no distinction, of course, but I learned things.

While I bang on about tastiness and mood over impressiveness, we all go through stretching phases, sometimes stretching outwards through our playing lives - always looking to get a handle on new challenging styles and ideas.

Others prefer to work inwards, playing the same styles but trying to improve the groove, feel, taste and sonics. Both approaches are looking to get closer to perfection, which of course is a lifelong pursuit, and need not be exclusive.

BTW, your old jazz band director sounds like an OH&S hazard :)
 
I didn't mean to make a generalized statement about everybody, but to me I think it's partially true. Only in college did I ever play all this complicated music. Yes, it does prepare you to read stuff you wouldn't normally get a chance to play, but when I put that in context with the music that's made me money for most of my career, that ain't it.

Music was all about making people dance and have a good time. As a jazz band director told me once, he wants to feel the grease on the floor. Lots of times in college everything felt too sterile for me and when I had a chance to get out, I did. I don't think that's playing it safe, as Thaard suggests. I left a safe environment to see how I'd fare in the real world. I could've stayed in college as some do, forever, happily playing stuff nobody wants to hear. It's a very different thing when you're trying to make people happy enough to pay you for it.

So I apologize if my view is a little somewhat to the right, but me doing what I do has no bearing on my views about music. I just choose to do what I like to do now, if that means playing in 4/4 and making people groove is somehow being safe, there you go.

Granted, Bo, that this isn't music that's intended to make money. Who ever said it was? So you've lost me here. It has nothing to do with making money; I don't write my jazz tunes to make money. In the real world I played everything but jazz to make a living, with only a few rare exceptions.

None of this would have ever come up were it not for a couple of horn player friends of mine who want to do show featuring my songs. I only thought this one song might make for an interesting topic from a technical perspective, a drummer's perspective. If I was wrong then I was wrong. I'm not pushing anything here, nor do I expect the vast majority of players and listeners to like my music. It isn't intended for everyone. I do it because it pleases me and it interests me, and enough people do like it to make it feel worthwhile.
 
Granted, Bo, that this isn't music that's intended to make money. Who ever said it was? So you've lost me here. It has nothing to do with making money; I don't write my jazz tunes to make money. In the real world I played everything but jazz to make a living, with only a few rare exceptions.

None of this would have ever come up were it not for a couple of horn player friends of mine who want to do show featuring my songs. I only thought this one song might make for an interesting topic from a technical perspective, a drummer's perspective. I'm not pushing anything here, nor do I expect the vast majority of players and listeners to like my music. It isn't intended for everyone. I do it because it pleases me and it interests me, and enough people do like it to make it feel worthwhile.

And that's a cool thing ;) I will listen to your demo when I get off this double shift here at Disneyland on Easter.....damn.....
 
Could you explain what you mean by that, swing coming from the subdivision? It's the first time I've ever heard that; do you mean as applied to odd meters?

Hi,

All I mean by this is that the swing feel comes from a triplet subdivision and the meter doesn't really matter. you can choose to phrase within the meter or around the meter but with swing feel.

more simply, there are 12 subdivisions in a 4/4 and 15 in a 5/4

obviously its more subtle than this. you don't always subdivide into triplets. you increase or decrease the subdivisions within the quarter note to give that stretchy feel.

don't get me wrong, I'm no expert. thats just how I understand it and what I aim towards.
 
When I play odd meters these days I tend to just think In 2s and 3s and combine as necessary. It lets you stop thinking about it (IMHO thinking = bad for drumming) and just feel your way through the music. And take five to me has a lovely nasty kinda swing to it, not too hard and weird enough to keeping people guessing even though it barely changes.
 
I can't offer much in the way of suggestions for how to approach the drums, but I like the tune. Sounds very much in the vein of Andrew Hill/Monk to these ears.
 
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