Soul/Funk/R&B Noob.

M

Mr.Mow

Junior Member
Hey all.. so another 'i'm coming from the other side' post..

I'm a gigging bass player, have a huge love of old Motown, Funk, Soul, R&B, Stax etc.. if its late 60's soul etc.. I love it.

So I want a kit, have been looking at the Gretsch Catalina and Sonor Jungle.. They seem to be fairly stripped down.. But when I see the videos of the era, I notice its generally (a 7ft tall black guy! and) a tiny kit, small kicks, a snare, a highhat and maybe a floor tom and cymbal (ok I know there will be exceptions).

Example.. I saw the video of the guy who played 'Funky drummer' with James Brown, he grooves his arse off just playing the kick snare and high hat (by the looks of it to me).

They seemed to make a lot from very little.. I don't want to play rock or anything fancy, basic thumping grooves.

So.. really what can I strip things down to? The shops all want to add 4pc cymbal packs, stands etc. Is a small kick, snare, highhat realistic or just TOO small?

I appreciate any advice!
 
You don't have to buy a cymbal pack. Get your hats and maybe a nice vintage 18" crash ride used? Trawl ebay for a while?
 
The little bit of research I've done about the era reveals a pretty basic 4-piece catalog kit:

Either a 14x20 bass, 8x12 tom, 14x14 floor tom, and 5x14 snare, OR 14x22 bass drum, 9x13 tom, 16x16 floor tom with 5x14 snare (think what Ringo was using with the Beatles when they hit, and then he just got bigger sizes just after that). The cymbals were pretty much stock: 14" hats, 18" crash, 20 ride (or sizes close to). There weren't alot of options back then and alot of those guys were jazzers too. I think Al Jackson Jr, when he was playing with Booker T and the MG's started using two rack toms in a 5-piece configuration, but that's about as crazy as it got. You'd be ok to get anything resembling the basic 4-piece kit.
 
If your back line is gonna fairly load and your NOT micing the drums I'll suggest a 14x22 and a 9x10 or a 9x12 (8 deep is fine too) and a 14 or 16 fl. tm. (I prefer a 14")! If your micing drums it won't make any difference as to sizes the main concern is to hear yourself clearly. The 14" deep 22" gives a cleaner slap back then a 16" deep generates, and the thin shells will produce botton end. Now the drums from that era were tuned simular to a jazz sound because the R&B drummers from that era were from a jazz background. The recording sound changed and Mr. Jackson as preveously meantioned also arrainged and produced the recordings from Stax. So to duplicate that sound we tune lower then they did then to get closer to the recorded sound. There was alot of open bass drums then also (no reso head) with a weight inside them that gave a punch sound live thats hard to duplicate now. I know because I'm a drummer from that era who is always working on my sound as I've gone room to room and dealing with an acoustic instrument is always a test to your ability to tune your instrument.
I played an Eames 16x18 Fintone 6plies for many years and was the best kick I ever mic'ed. Sound companies were amazed how that lil drum performes so if your micing go for the 'pop" set, if not you might be happier with the 14x22 and a thin shelled 14 or 16x20 can also do the job. Vintage gretsch and slingerlands would work well and the more modern drums I'd suggest are the Recording Customs (Yamahas) Birch, also the thin shelled Maple shells will deliver too. If you have money to spend call Eames in Mass. USA and ask Joe if he'll make you a 16x18/14x14/9x10 or 8x12 in Finetone 6plies. For me they're the best pop kits made. Hand crafted Finetones are great sounding instruments you won't be disappointed. You will "pay" for them but they are "custom" made by hand by a Master Craftsman. Good luck, lots of choices to make. Doc
 
Wow, thanks guys.. Very in depth!

See, bass wise I play old style too, 15" cab, bass with flat wounds for old thumpy styles.

So drums.. Same!

I think I'm on the right track then, the sonor is a 16x16 kick,14ft, some rack Tom (which I could do without but it's included), cymbals are my choice, I'm thinking just an 18" crash/ride or just plain ride and a 14" highhat? Oh and I need to add a snare.

Can you get by with JUST a high hat as the only cymbal?
 
I've been playing a Fender P and/or J as long as I've played drums (50yrs) I have a 1960 P-bass and a 2008 USA on ebay now (plug) "deep talkin" on them since about 67" so I know what I'm talkin about especially that era and with real Blues music not this copy pop Eric Clapton BS or these dried up R&R guys who turn to playing Blues rhythms but use all the wrong notes and haven't a clue how to phrase. I better stop now, I might ruin my dinner hahahaha good luck if I can help further give me a shout! Doc


16x16 isn't gonna cut it, and a 14 on top no one played then, a 18" fl is another size no one played.hi hats and a good combo cymb. is doable your drum sizes are a mess.
 
Doctor Dirt said:
I've been playing a Fender P and/or J as long as I've played drums (50yrs) I have a 1960 P-bass and a 2008 USA on ebay now (plug) "deep talkin" on them since about 67" so I know what I'm talkin about especially that era and with real Blues music not this copy pop Eric Clapton BS or these dried up R&R guys who turn to playing Blues rhythms but use all the wrong notes and haven't a clue how to phrase. I better stop now, I might ruin my dinner hahahaha good luck if I can help further give me a shout! Doc


16x16 isn't gonna cut it, and a 14 on top no one played then, a 18" fl is another size no one played.hi hats and a good combo cymb. is doable your drum sizes are a mess.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I'm kinda stuck with the packages available!
The sonor jungle is..

Bass Drum 16" x 16"
Tom Tom 10" x 8"
Floor Tom 14" x 12"
Then add a snare and cymbals..

I'm on a skinny budget, no custom stuff!
 
Mr.Mow said:
Wow, thanks guys.. Very in depth!

See, bass wise I play old style too, 15" cab, bass with flat wounds for old thumpy styles.

So drums.. Same!

I think I'm on the right track then, the sonor is a 16x16 kick,14ft, some rack Tom (which I could do without but it's included), cymbals are my choice, I'm thinking just an 18" crash/ride or just plain ride and a 14" highhat? Oh and I need to add a snare.

Can you get by with JUST a high hat as the only cymbal?
Click to expand...

You really cannot get by with only a hi hat. If you added the 18" crash/ride, that'd be the bare minimum, imo.

I agree with Dr. Dirt, the 16" won't cut it practically. I'd denitely try for a kick larger than 18". But you don't need a 22" by any means. I'd go for a 12-14-20 like Bo suggested..

If haven't started listening to drummers and looking at the gear they use, I'd suggested checking out James Gadson and Al Jackson Jr.
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/James_Gadson.html ... he used a 13-16-22
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Al_Jackson.html ... he used a 12-16-20

There are plenty of bargain kits off craigslist in those configs.. 12-14-20 and 13-16-22 have been standard configs for almost 100 years now. You could sell that jungle kit and buy one of those and probable come out with more money you had to begin with. Then you could get a separate crash AND and separate ride :) thats all you really need anyway: hh, crash, ride.
 
I wouldn't say it's mandatory that you have more than just a pair of hats, you'll just be missing out on the one sound where you can ride it or accentuate with a crash. However, I've been on gigs where I found I didn't use any cymbals at all, except for the hi-hat. It just depends on how creative you want to have to be when dealing with limitations. If you think you can get by with it, go for it! Show 'em how it's done.

Does anyone remember that guy who just showed up with a crash/ride cymbals and a bag of sticks and mallets? He had an interview in Modern Drummer long ago. And remember in the early days of the drumset, there was no riding on anything cymbal-y back then. You did it all with press rolls. Sometimes it's good to work through limitations then you can find out what you can actually do. I say try it first.
 
Well thanks guys...
The advice has helped a bunch (ie, when the guy in the shop asked what sort of cymbal I wanted I knew more than just 'uh.. the one that goes 'ting'?)!

In the end I came home with a the Sonor Jungle.. It was a killer deal that was way too good to pass up, was miles ahead quality wise compared to everything else in the price range as it was old stock.. there was no way I could afford anything this good other wise.
Got a 14" HH and 18" crash/ride, both Wuhan, cheapies granted.. but they will get me started.

Now comes the lessons!
 
Get the Zoro RnB book, which goes from early soul thru to hip hop. It's superb and if you're a fan of the music you'll really enjoy it.
 
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