Smaller thinner kicks with good sound- ideas?

Toolate

Platinum Member
I am looking to come up with an alternative to my 20" kick for portability and just to play with acoustic guitarist (s). Just play snare and kick with hats with these guys so not looking to be particularly loud either. I really want a deep thud though and have been struggling to find a good sound in anything smaller than what I normally play which is the 20. It has an Emad and 3" felt strip on the reso and sounds killer to me. 3" port as well.

So with that in mind I have tried to reproduce that deep thud with all sizes of smaller toms and even cajon's but never found any magic combinations that I liked. I want to play it with a pedal too so have tried different beaters and deadening ideas but never fell in love with the sound of any of them. Even made a couple cajons and cut down some (junk) toms in an effort to find a good sound. Even played a couple suitcases since it seems to be a thing.

I think I have learned that the reality is that a 16" kick is about as small as I could go and still get a deep sound out of it but it still sounds ringy and I wish the tone could be deeper. Would like to make it as shallow as possible but again in my experience anything taken away has consequences. Part of the problem is the attack takes away from the "thud" I am after so need to work around that.

I would be willing to build a drum or wooden box with one head or another kick specific cajon if anyone has any suggestions like this as well. Have played around with this for a couple years on and off and I think I am finally getting serious about it.

Anyone have a small kick they like that wouldnt mind sharing the details of how its set up? Would love to hear what anyone has to say and obv pics or vids would be a huge bonus. Please :)
 
It sounds to me like the sound you are looking for would be a suitcase and foot pedal.

Playing a suitcase has some limitations when it comes to volume.
Here is what I would try. I would try a suitcase with a microphone inside and then use a small amplifier.
That way you can adjust the volume to meet every situation. And you can adjust the tone somewhat using the amplifier.
You would need to research to find the proper microphone and amplifier for low bass tones.

You can then carry the amplifier and other equipment in the suitcase.


.
 
Is it the depth of the drum that takes too much space? If so get a 12 inch deep kick. They are made. One can also buy cheap used marching drums in that size. The 20 gets you the lower note you like.

I would arge equidimensional drums, like a 16 x 16, are no more 'portable' to carry or setup than a 12 x 20. Its the depth of drums that take up space.
 
Is it the depth of the drum that takes too much space? If so get a 12 inch deep kick. They are made. One can also buy cheap used marching drums in that size. The 20 gets you the lower note you like.

I would arge equidimensional drums, like a 16 x 16, are no more 'portable' to carry or setup than a 12 x 20. Its the depth of drums that take up space.

Not so much the depth really- Very good points and I agree in general based on my work this far but would love to hear from someone who has a 16-18" kick that produces a nice sound. Might be that it cant be done?

Hollywood Jim- I actually made a wooden box with a head on it like that suitcase and could never get it to tune down low enough- mine has a huge chink of foam like his but its still clicky. Same with the suitcase- so much click from the beater no matter what I did that thats what you end up hearing rather than a deeper kick note so I think I am looking at a drum (or cajon if anyone has ever set one up/built one that really produces a low note with a pedal/beater). Also, no amps/electrical sources involved here. If I were going to go that route I could just use a trigger and have any note I wanted. Cant take the easy way out.
 
Maybe try with a different beater? A soft 'jazz' one perhaps.

I've veen struggling to get a decent low resonant soubd out of my 18" Gretsch Club Jazz bass drum. What did it for me was an Aquarian Jack Dejohnette sig. head. Black, single ply, 16mil I think, coated head. Really made the world of difference. I've been able to get a decent low thump out of it too, with a couple extra towels. I think if you like the EMAD this could ve the way to go - clear heads like the emad can be quite slappy, especially on small drums.
 
Is it the depth of the drum that takes too much space? If so get a 12 inch deep kick. They are made. One can also buy cheap used marching drums in that size. The 20 gets you the lower note you like.

I would arge equidimensional drums, like a 16 x 16, are no more 'portable' to carry or setup than a 12 x 20. Its the depth of drums that take up space.

I second the 20 x 12 size. (unported for biggest sound) Great size, portable and wow what a satisfying punch. My Sonor Players kit has that size bass drum and it sounds like just the ticket. I heard just last week that they dropped the price on them. Great finish too.
 
I have a standard 14X18 Tama bass drum that I think sounds fantastic, with plenty of low end.

I use an Evans EQ4 (like a Powerstroke 3) and the standard Tama reso, which is also similar to a PS3. If I want to reduce sustain a bit, I have some bubble wrap I put inside. I like it because it adds no weight and re-orients itself effortlessly after carrying the drum in different positions.

I like this drum because I can use it with an amplified rock band if necessary, and I can also feather it with finesse and it's perfect for accompanying a singer with an acoustic guitar.

Here is the mp3 from the Natural Meter challenge Bill Ray posted some time ago. Not an interesting bit of playing, but you can hear the drum...
 

Attachments

  • Natural Meter.mp3
    4.8 MB · Views: 82
If you are into making things you might try something like this. It's an 18" and produces quite a bit of volume if I want, and thump, depending on dampening. Couldn't be easier to carry around.

Pancake1.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Maybe try with a different beater? A soft 'jazz' one perhaps.

I've veen struggling to get a decent low resonant soubd out of my 18" Gretsch Club Jazz bass drum. What did it for me was an Aquarian Jack Dejohnette sig. head. Black, single ply, 16mil I think, coated head. Really made the world of difference. I've been able to get a decent low thump out of it too, with a couple extra towels. I think if you like the EMAD this could ve the way to go - clear heads like the emad can be quite slappy, especially on small drums.

Are you running a bomber beater on this? Happy to hear this because its exactly what I was thinking (coated, thicker head). The sound has to be dampened though to get it down low and you get a thump with no sustain. Thats just the way it is I guess which is fine for what I am doing.
 
I second the 20 x 12 size. (unported for biggest sound) Great size, portable and wow what a satisfying punch. My Sonor Players kit has that size bass drum and it sounds like just the ticket. I heard just last week that they dropped the price on them. Great finish too.

Are you filling this drum with anything to dampen it? I think a 20" kick can make the sound I want without too much dampening (run mine with a felt strip is all on the reso). Just asking because I dont really have experience with unported kicks.

Any chance you have a video of you playing it? Thanks Larry.
 
I have a standard 14X18 Tama bass drum that I think sounds fantastic, with plenty of low end.

I use an Evans EQ4 (like a Powerstroke 3) and the standard Tama reso, which is also similar to a PS3. If I want to reduce sustain a bit, I have some bubble wrap I put inside. I like it because it adds no weight and re-orients itself effortlessly after carrying the drum in different positions.

I like this drum because I can use it with an amplified rock band if necessary, and I can also feather it with finesse and it's perfect for accompanying a singer with an acoustic guitar.

Here is the mp3 from the Natural Meter challenge Bill Ray posted some time ago. Not an interesting bit of playing, but you can hear the drum...

PERFECT! What reso? How is it tuned? What beater? This is perfect- admittedly flat but I think thats what we get with small kicks- no open ringing kick which is just fine. Thanks
 
PERFECT! What reso? How is it tuned? What beater? This is perfect- admittedly flat but I think thats what we get with small kicks- no open ringing kick which is just fine. Thanks

That was recorded with the Evans batter, and the Tama Powerstroke 3 type reso. No other muffling whatsoever, not even the bubble wrap. The batter is tuned just high enough to make a nice round note, and the reso is tuned way higher, to a note that compliments the batter. I find the high reso is what shortens the sustain.

The beater was just the felt side of my Yamaha direct drive pedal.
 
Are you running a bomber beater on this? Happy to hear this because its exactly what I was thinking (coated, thicker head). The sound has to be dampened though to get it down low and you get a thump with no sustain. Thats just the way it is I guess which is fine for what I am doing.

I'm using the VicKick beater. Not sure, of the name, but it's the one that looks like an egg. Not the same as the Bomber. With that head and beater I manage to get plenty of sustain. I play jazz, so sustain is important to me. Head tuned really high, almost choked, with a couple of towels inside just barely touching the batter to take away the high pitched sound and it's sorted. A pillow instead will reduce the sustain too much. I tried the same with a fiberskyn and a G1 coated and it just wasn't the same - the Aquarian gives a lot of attack and low end without being at all slappy. Fiberskyn was too muddy and G1 too slappy.
 
I like my Gretsch Catalina 18x14 bass drum. The batter head has an Evans EQ3, and the front head is an Evans EQ3 Resonant. I also have a Evans EQ pad sitting inside touching neither head, which soaks up some of the high frequencies bouncing around inside. All of the other musicians that have heard it like it too. Peace and goodwill.
 
Are you filling this drum with anything to dampen it? I think a 20" kick can make the sound I want without too much dampening (run mine with a felt strip is all on the reso). Just asking because I dont really have experience with unported kicks.

Any chance you have a video of you playing it? Thanks Larry.

No vid, sorry. I run it wide open, no dampening except what's on the EMAD. I tune the reso head pretty tight so it goes boing! The batter is an EMAD1 with no foam ring at all, tuned fairly low. A tight reso eliminates the need to muffle.

If you bury the beater, an unported unmuffled head causes the multiple bounce thing, that's the only caveat.
 
Are you filling this drum with anything to dampen it? I think a 20" kick can make the sound I want without too much dampening (run mine with a felt strip is all on the reso). Just asking because I dont really have experience with unported kicks.

Any chance you have a video of you playing it? Thanks Larry.

I recently bought a slightly used Sonor Players kit for around $350 and the 20 x 12 bass drum had tremendous punch and bass without micing. It cut through sharper than my Ludwig Club Date 14 x 20 (which has Emad2 batter/PS3-Kickport resonant).
The heads the previous drummer put on the Players bass drum were a PS3 batter/stock-black Sonor resonant with a "Holz" cutout. I experimented a bit with an Evans pillow lightly touching the batter or the reso, then not touching anything, then just a microfiber 14" cloth doing the same. It sounded like this drum is too shallow to add any dampening beyond a pre-dampened batter like the PS3 (or anything at all on the resonant) or it will choke off the overall sound.
When I mic'd the Sonor bass drum with an AKG 112, it cut through any type of music very effectively- the presence was felt for sure.
Comparing my 20 x 12 to my 20 x 14, I'd have to give the punch power to the 12, and the deeper bass tones to the 14 by a hair. Maybe the Club Date shell softens the punch and deepens the tone comparatively.
With either drum mic'd, there'd be no problem for any music.
 
Back
Top