Hi Hat Foot Beats on 2 & 4

newoldie

Silver Member
When do you play hi-hat beats with your foot? I keep the foot going on 2 & 4 around 90% of the time (when keeping time or brief fills/solos) for rock, pop, blues, jazz, etc. This is a long habit from originally learning to play from a jazz drummer.
If I'm using the stick to keep time on the hats, I'll stop the the foot from hitting but keep it going as a silent time keeper.
I've noticed other players in the band watch the hi hats up & down motion & also listen for the chick sound for time-keeping. I also feel more solid in playing a basic groove using this pattern for the above types of music.

Bonham can be seen on videos using the hi-hats for keeping time during some solos (perhaps faster than just 2 &4) and I think Joe Morello discusses hi-hat time keeping on 2 & 4 in his video. But it's hard to see most drummers foot in action on video since that angle isn't usually focused on.

Since I haven't seen much discussed on this topic, I'm wondering what other players do:
-if they don't routinely keep the hats going with their foot, due to coordination issues,
-intentionally vary the foot beats,
-keep the hats going on each quarter note vs. just 2 &4,
- don't think it matters as much what the foot does vs. the sticks.

Is hi-hat time-keeping on 2 &4 as universal as 2 &4 back-beats on the snare are?
[I'm not referring to metal or other genres where a double bass pedal(s) is used most of the time, or fusion where musicality is more varied].
 
Left foot is part of the composition. It can go anywhere, or nowhere.

My notes from lessons this year.

For 4/4, hat on 1/3 or 2/4 depending on the sound you want. Practice both ways and learn to switch on the fly.
Learn heal-toe.

Practice quarters, eighths, and 3 over 4 triplets on the hat.
Practice (inverse/reverse/normal) paradiddle between kick and hat.
Practice hand over foot singles with hat.
Practice hand over foot in/re/no paradiddle on hat.

Other: Replace the occasional ghost note with hat. Learn toe-to-heal-stomp hat-crash.
 
Left foot is part of the composition. It can go anywhere, or nowhere.

My notes from lessons this year.

For 4/4, hat on 1/3 or 2/4 depending on the sound you want. Practice both ways and learn to switch on the fly.
Learn heal-toe.

Practice quarters, eighths, and 3 over 4 triplets on the hat.
Practice (inverse/reverse/normal) paradiddle between kick and hat.
Practice hand over foot singles with hat.
Practice hand over foot in/re/no paradiddle on hat.

Other: Replace the occasional ghost note with hat. Learn toe-to-heal-stomp hat-crash.

Ya looks like my wishlist for life, lol
I am mainly quarters, or 2 and 4 on hats, less of 8ths . Thats feels most natural to me.

My hat foot is under-utilized, but it seems like the part of the kit most under-utilized by many drummers. It is so great seeing somebody with a stripped down kit do so much with the hats.
 
I try and make the most of my left foot and use it in all manner of ways. Especially splashes.

One thing I like to do during solos is to splash with my left foot on the quarters. Not real loud. Just enough to fill out the sound. If there's a dynamic drop down in the solo, I stop the splashes and it makes a great effect.

The left foot adds a whole other dimension to playing. While sometimes chicks sound great on 2 and 4, I'll play chicks on the "ands" instead....if it moves the song along. Instead of thinking of hand to hand fills to do, I'd much rather get my left foot doing different stuff throughout the whole song. It adds a lot of texture without sticking out or detracting. It really gooses groove music.
 
Larry:
Since you play a lot of blues-based music, would you favor 2&4 on the hats for that, or would you utilize them on other beats?
Some music seems better suited to only 2 &4, but perhaps that's my own limited musical perspective.
 
Spash on 1 close on 2 splash on 3 close on 4

Close on 1 splash on 2 close on 3 splash on 4

Dotted 1/4 note on left hat (open) while playing grove

Chick on last 1/16 before the snare (sound like a ghost note)
Chick on last 1/16 oh every beat (tricky)

Clave (2 or 3) with left foot.

Slash on 8th.1/4 etc

Chick on 8th ,1/4 etc

FYI , I am left handed playing righty.
 
Left foot is part of the composition. It can go anywhere, or nowhere.

For 4/4, hat on 1/3 or 2/4 depending on the sound you want. Practice both ways and learn to switch on the fly.

Yes! Most important is to know what sound you want and have the music dictate what you play, and not be limited to what you can do with your limbs. With that said you want to practice playing your hi-hat on every beat imaginable (downbeats, upbeats, 2nd note of 16th note "e," last note of 16th "a," triplet variations, splashes, open-close.

Jojo Mayer's foot technique dvd goes in depth on this subject. GET IT!!

Make practice super hard, so performing is a piece of cake.
 
Larry:
Since you play a lot of blues-based music, would you favor 2&4 on the hats for that, or would you utilize them on other beats?
Some music seems better suited to only 2 &4, but perhaps that's my own limited musical perspective.

It all depends on how modern you are doing blues. Traditionally, blues is not tricky anything, (OK modern shuffles can be tricky) so with traditional blues, the drums are mainly a timekeeping function, which is essential to make the music work. In traditional blues, the drummer leaves practically all the space for the soloists, and makes sure the transitions are smooth, the time is relentless at any tempo, with good dynamics and sensitivity to the soloist and vocalist. Pretty selfless playing basically.

For more modern blues, that's a little more harder edged....that's more open to interpretation IMO. Whether an interpretation comes off good or not is another discussion, but there's more latitude with more modern takes on songs IMO. (Sweet Home Chicago as done by the Blues Brothers for example).

But the short answer to your question, is yes to all.

Traditional blues played traditionally you keep dead simple. It sounds friggin great when a drummer can hold themselves there. Modern blues...if you feel it there, put it there. 2 & 4, 1 & 3, and's, e's & a's, triplets....

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. You decide that while listening back and edit yourself as necessary. Trial and error, and listening back to see if things are working or not. Hopefully you know right away if something isn't working and quick stop it. But the recorder hears all equally. Traditional blues, (with players who know how it's done) the more dumbed down you play it... content-wise... the brighter it shines. Counter-intuitive.
 
In the mix, the "chic" I get when closing the hat with the foot on 2 and 4 is not a lot of sound when playing rock. Also, I find playing the hat and snare on 2 and 4 to be too basic. So if I'm playing the snare on the 2 and 4 and using my hat foot to close the hat on 2 and 4, I try and find something different to do with the snare's 2 and 4 beat. If I can get away with it, I'll add ghost notes, flams, anything on the snare to add a bit more "hearable" interest. Obviously the songs basic beat has to come first.

So IMO the chic of a closing hat unless heavily amplified just wont make enough of a difference in the mix to influence the sound. That said I do find it strongly helps me maintain my time.
 
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It all depends on how modern you are doing blues. Traditionally, blues is not tricky anything, (OK modern shuffles can be tricky) so with traditional blues, the drums are mainly a timekeeping function, which is essential to make the music work. In traditional blues, the drummer leaves practically all the space for the soloists, and makes sure the transitions are smooth, the time is relentless at any tempo, with good dynamics and sensitivity to the soloist and vocalist. Pretty selfless playing basically.

But the short answer to your question, is yes to all.

Traditional blues played traditionally you keep dead simple. It sounds friggin great when a drummer can hold themselves there. Modern blues...if you feel it there, put it there. 2 & 4, 1 & 3, and's, e's & a's, triplets....

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. You decide that while listening back and edit yourself as necessary. Trial and error, and listening back to see if things are working or not. Hopefully you know right away if something isn't working and quick stop it. But the recorder hears all equally. Traditional blues, (with players who know how it's done) the more dumbed down you play it... content-wise... the brighter it shines. Counter-intuitive.
Larry:
Great observations/advise and timely as I've joined in a [traditional style ]jazzy blues band and hear that simple, spacious style being played on the original recordings we're covering. These drummers hardly play snare or tom beats outside the basic shuffle groove, except for basic fills at the end of a phrase or grouping of measures. Crashes & ghosting are very limited and really stand out in contrast, usually as a tasteful accenting.
Of course, the hi hat foot beats can't be heard on recordings and we can't see what was being played there.
BTW, have you used the hats on each quarter note for certain shuffles (maybe double shuffles)? It might be an overload unless the shuffle beat was limited to the snare.

Skyking: Same in my experience-- in the mix, the hi-hat chic (not amplified in my case) is somewhat lost behind the snare's 2 & 4 back beat, so it has a time keeping value. When appropriate, I'll use the hat tambourine in a few rock-pop covers to accentuate. I haven't tried the hats on 1 &3 for basic rock/pop; not quite sure where that might fit in. Any examples of songs where this sounds good?
 
I tend to not always use high-hat LF for time keeping anymore. Although I did when I started out, but then over time I think i must have developed an "internal" time clock and that enabled the LF to do other interesting things. Like chicking on the & or 'e' or 'ah' and other patterns But most of the time I find myself playing LF heel down and LF takes on function of adjusting the size of cymbal opening slot from very tight to tight or abit loose or more loose or sloshy or wide open and all gradations in between. So when doing a groove on highhat with hands the LF is constantly making these stuble changes to create textures that matches the music. With empashis on playing for the music. This all reminds me of many years ago I was living in an apartment with noise restrictions, so no drums - but I found I could play my highhat without distrurbing the neighbors - that lead to practicing just the highhat (as an instrument) for a period of two years. Yes, I spent two years playing just a highhat! LOL Hours and Hours. It was different (almost medatative) but I always loved the sound of the hat and in the process, I learned so many ways of playing the hat, different patterns between hands and Foot and textures and hand or foot accents etc. After that "time off" when I got back to the kit, I was so much more comfortable playing highhat along with the drums. It opened up a whole new dimension. Somewhere along this timeline (and I forget when), my time keeping went internal and not ditated by a limb like LF. Hope any of this makes sense and is helpful. Just the side road I ended up on...
 
I haven't tried the hats on 1 &3 for basic rock/pop; not quite sure where that might fit in. Any examples of songs where this sounds good?

I don't know of any on 1 and 3. That just violates my sense of right and wrong. ;)
 
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2 and 4,straight quarters,or nothing. I don't even think about it.I play in an extremely loud rock/metal band. No one hears it but me. :)
 
Side anecdote:

I've noticed a lot of guitarist-converts (myself included) have a natural/feral 1/3 on the left foot. I guess it's akin to being a pianist convert and having a slightly goofy right foot.

2/4 is more difficult for me than 1/3, especially leading into it. I'm optimistic that this will improve with experience.
 
BTW, have you used the hats on each quarter note for certain shuffles (maybe double shuffles)?

Great question that I never really considered. Basically speaking no. But that's me. They should work in theory though. If I am shuffling, I'm playing the hats most of the time, even during solos. So chicks are out of the question anyway. When I am on the ride I don't think I would play chicks on the quarters. I feel it would compete with the dotted feel.

I do chicks on the halves to help lift the back beat, but the half note "lift" on 2 & 4 is negated when chicks are played on all quarters. Not all shuffles have that lift, traditional sometimes keeps it even. So if there is no "lift" on 2 & 4, chicks on the quarters should work. But that might be a tad busy for traditional. I don't think traditional blues drummers used their left foot other than chicks on 2 and 4...generally speaking.

This is totally my opinion/preferences only, and doesn't apply across the board. The best way to do it is to try it, record it, and decide whether you like it or not.
 
Side anecdote:

I've noticed a lot of guitarist-converts (myself included) have a natural/feral 1/3 on the left foot. I guess it's akin to being a pianist convert and having a slightly goofy right foot.

2/4 is more difficult for me than 1/3, especially leading into it. I'm optimistic that this will improve with experience.

Would that would be due to an abundance of Caucasian genes?
 
Would that would be due to an abundance of Caucasian genes?

Doubtful given my Mediterranean lineage ;-)

When a guitarist sits on a bar stool with an acoustic, the right foot locks in the rail for balance and to position the guitar on the thigh, the left taps.

This royally screwed me early on, because I couldn't keep my balance on a drum throne, and I reverted to my 24" guitar stool for the first year of playing. I've ordered a Roc-N-Soc and have been working to overcome this. Even going to such extremes as doing all of my practice pad workouts with both feet 1-2" off the ground.
 
I'm not getting the connection between balance, and feeling it on 1 & 3.
 
I'm not getting the connection between balance, and feeling it on 1 & 3.

It's an anecdotal connection (the bar stool).

I just sat down to take a critical look. For most tempos and material, left taps 1/2/3/4. For front driven rhythms (Hart of Gold), it's 1/3. Stuff with a heavy backbeat (Cherry-Cherry/What I like about you) it's 2/4. For a lot of high tempo stuff, or intricate work, it's "1".
 
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