The state of pop music

mikyok said:

The jury is still out on the new Toto album, I have the LP and it sounds like they're cramming too much volume into it which should happen on vinyl because it's uncompressed analogue, which is a shame because I've seen them on tour a couple of months back and it sounded amazing!

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I imagine Simon's no longer in the producer chair. I admired his ability to keep a wide landscape on the last few Toto albums - especially Tambu

makinao said:

It could be argued to have started decades earlier, as in the mobile device of choice from the 50s to the 70s, the transistor radio.

https://zmeza.wordpress.com/the-birth-of-the-regency-tr-1-and-the-transistor-radio/

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I agreee to a certain extent especially with cassette tapes and 8 track because you get natural compression.

But studio technology was nowhere near as advanced as it is now. Plus transistor radio is still anologue. Now you're talking cramming everything into a couple of MB of mp3

Check Sun studios out, everything was recorded pretty much live on very basic equipment and engineers were in uncharted territory in the 50s in terms of pop. But Jazz recordings of the late 50s are very well produced.

keep it simple said:

I imagine Simon's no longer in the producer chair. I admired his ability to keep a wide landscape on the last few Toto albums - especially Tambu

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Tambu was a great album, really underrated. Bit like Farenheit which is my personal favourite just for Jeff.

Even in the live DVDs he mixed everything had it's own space and room to move in it which the new album hasn't, shame because Keith Carlock's playing is brilliant and I feel there's things that are getting lost in the mix. He grooves like Jeff but has the precision of Simon.

mikyok said:

I think another issue around compression is that producers are mixing things for itunes and the very poor quality ear plugs and even worse things like beats.

When you listen to heavily compressed music through good audio equipment it really sticks out.

The crazy thing is it's not limited to teeny bopper stuff. I think Maiden have just remixed their entire back catalogue for itunes.

One of the worst examples I can think of is the new edition of Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds which compared to the 1978 original is very poorly produced.

The jury is still out on the new Toto album, I have the LP and it sounds like they're cramming too much volume into it which should happen on vinyl because it's uncompressed analogue, which is a shame because I've seen them on tour a couple of months back and it sounded amazing!

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Nothing new there though. Back in the day a mix would often be taken to an in car casette player to make sure it sounded good on poor equipment.

keep it simple said:

I get the comparison between the two songs, & I get the differences in approach / feel too. I completely agree re: state of most pop music, but I think generally, Ed Sheeran is one of the better ones in the current crop. I also think this particular song is quite well constructed, produced, & performed. It's not great - far from it - but it is good IMHO.

Another aspect is exposure. There are some stunningly good modern pop artists, but quality mostly sits off the radar, leaving the safe "generic fad" stuff to dominate.

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I agree with Andy, there is much worse out there today! Much, much worse.

FritzDrummer said:

I agree with Andy, there is much worse out there today! Much, much worse.

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This has been happening since at least the 1950s! All of these novelty (fad) songs like How Much is that Doggie in the Window are the same as the pop songs of today. They might not use studio musicians, but rather a producer with a keyboard, but that doesn't make it any less viable. Many times the musicians playing on the rock and roll and pop records were jazz guys, just going through the motions to get some studio pay. They are just as disconnected from the song as a digital track would be.

Many of the recordings form the 1950s and 60s were edited heavily as well (they didn't have autotune, but it's the same principle). Listen to Del Shannon's Runaway, a song that has stood the test of time. Listen to the recording, they've sped up the tapes to raise it to a higher key. It was originally recorded in A minor, and the increased speed puts it around a B Flat minor. Is that any different than a producer using autotune?

tcspears said:

This has been happening since at least the 1950s! All of these novelty (fad) songs like How Much is that Doggie in the Window are the same as the pop songs of today. They might not use studio musicians, but rather a producer with a keyboard, but that doesn't make it any less viable. Many times the musicians playing on the rock and roll and pop records were jazz guys, just going through the motions to get some studio pay. They are just as disconnected from the song as a digital track would be.

Many of the recordings form the 1950s and 60s were edited heavily as well (they didn't have autotune, but it's the same principle). Listen to Del Shannon's Runaway, a song that has stood the test of time. Listen to the recording, they've sped up the tapes to raise it to a higher key. It was originally recorded in A minor, and the increased speed puts it around a B Flat minor. Is that any different than a producer using autotune?

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Totally agree with the first bit, good musicians have traditionally been behind bad pop. For instance Congratulations by Cliff Richard had Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones backing it.

Adjusting tape speed isn't as bad as auto tune. Most films have sped up music if you've ever noticed. Zappa used it a lot in the 70's. I'd say it's studio tool rather than blatant cheating which autotune is. Plus Del Shannon still had to sing in tune to A minor.

My guitarist has an auto tune pedal. It's great he can't really sing but this pedal is linked to his guitar so he is pitch perfect through the P.A. and nobody knows it's impossible to sing out of tune.

The other trick is multi layering a vocal track so a singer with a really weak voice i.e. Ellie Goulding sounds really powerful compared to the weak voiced woman with an acoustic guitar that pronounces the words in an overtly English way on youtube that got her noticed.

In my mind, pop of today (last 10-15 years) has severely been stuck in a rut. True, it the most popular, because apparently that's what people want and folks tune into. Like my wife.

I just think it's lazy listening. Yep, it's the same snap, clap and tick electronic sounds that dominate the beat. Just different wording and phrasing.

It's mind numbing I tell ya.

I don't listen to country, but it appears this pop sound has infiltrated Country Music.

This Beat is Killing Country Music

I did my best to read as much of the thread. . .First off I'll say, I've always used the analogy that music is like food. We eat what tastes good to us, may not make a bit of sense to another. With that said, bad music is bad music, no matter who is listening.

I was a DJ/MC in a topless bar in Indy for over 18 years, 3 years in my home town prior to that. I purchased thousands of songs that I never listened to on my own time, except to see if they were worthy of purchase. Music isn't written, and rehearsed anymore. It's constructed like software. I watched Sound City last week or so about the recording studio in SOCAL. What was the dang program, PRO SOUND?????? It was released, and studios started losing business everywhere. It gave idiots the ability to "produce" music right on their PC. It's horrendous. It's one thing to write a song on guitar, and then use a drum machine to lay down a beat, etc etc. . .But to simply sing over sounds you dragged and clicked from a list in a program, I really don't know if I consider it music, to start with.

Being a talented entertainer isn't the same as being a talented musician either.

I am a huge jam band fan. I can hardly listen to the radio these days at all. And having been a DJ for about 25 years, I have plenty of great music to get me by 'til the day I die.