drums getting in the way of song writing

beatstudent

Junior Member
First poster here.

Our three piece recently brought on a new guitarist with some great song writing ability/experience. Because our previous guitarist had no interest in writing songs (a topic for another day) and our lead singer/beginner bassist is pursuing the endeavor purely out of passion (he had next to no musical background prior to us starting two years ago), up until this point I had taken on most of the song writing.

I grew up playing piano, still play every day, but I always wanted to jump out of the seat like Jerry Lee Lewis or something, composing with energy as opposed to memorizing and honing technical skill (a bittersweet method). I wanted to be freakin' Animal from Sesame Street, as far back as I could remember. Enter the drums. Bless you Drum God :::pounds chest:::

However many years later...

Boy am I glad to have the burden of principal song writer off my back with this new guitarist in the mix. I can do it. I'm not bad at it. But for now, and this is yet another topic for another thread, I hope to find a way to continue to have a significant influence in the shaping of the sound that we create as a band. Moving on...

Bringing a new member into the band forces you to confront a number, if not every question regarding your band, but I pose this small one to the forum:

Do you ever find that stepping out from behind your drums is more effective than playing them? Specifically, I mean getting out the way during say a (group) song writing phase. Drums can get loud and overbearing, your rhythm could put the singer in a particular box closing doors, your room might be so small than even the seen but never heard jazz style drummer cannot play quietly and tightly enough to prevent inhibiting the song writing process.

I typically explain to any musician I may be writing with that I'll sometimes step away from the drums because I feel like they are getting in the way (often early in the song stages). Sometimes this is because I can't quite find my groove, but typically not. Maybe I'll just move to a tambo, or a beer bottle and lighter, or my accordion case bass drum, maybe I'll sit and listen, giving feedback that I would not have otherwise had the opportunity to give.

Again: Do you ever find that stepping out from behind your drums is more effective than playing them?
 
Do you ever find that stepping out from behind your drums is more effective than playing them?[/I]

Yes when writing songs as a group the drums can get in the way when you fist start to develop the song. However it is important to have the drummer involved in the writing process.
Even suggesting a faster or slower tempo or breaks in the song. Of course I'm supposing that you guys are working on new songs as a cohesive group.

Using the piano in the first stages of creating a song is very advantageous.
I know some people might not agree with me, but the piano is a percussion instrument.
If you listen to some of Elton John's music you can hear how he pounds out the rhythm on his piano.
So the piano can help determine the tempo of the new song.

.
 
Songwriting and creating drum parts are usually different processes, so yes, I'd agree that involving drums usually isn't a good idea when writing songs.

Obviously there will be exceptions, if you're in an instrumental prog power trio, it's probably smart to be involved at the start. But a good rule of thumb is, let the writers write, then drums can be introduced.

Bermuda
 
Depends on how you write a song. Usually, I start with some defining element and build the song around that, like a guitar riff, a chord progression, a melody, a lyric, or a rhythm. If you're starting the writing process of your songs with something other than the drums, then they WILL be a distraction until you've created a part for them that complements the song and becomes an integral sonic piece of the puzzle.

Sometimes, though, a song can be written around an inspiring drum rhythm, in which case, NO, the drums would not get in the way of writing the song...
 
We, when I played in a band, would most definitely include the drums in the song writing process. Sometimes the guitar players would play a riff for 10 minutes straight and I had to play as many different rhythms under it as I could so we could record them then deconstruct it later, deciding what we wanted to use, throw away, or save.

Some songs were written on the spot, coming out of a jam, drums included.

Other times the guitar player would come in with a definite idea and I would have to somewhat conform to the idea.

I think it just depends on the people writing the song and how they productively do it.
 
Do you ever find that stepping out from behind your drums is more effective than playing them?

In my opinion, 95% of the time, absolutely. The drums are the last and least important part. I write the drum parts to back the song.

Once in a while the song can actually be based on the drum grove but generally, it revolves around the vocals or possible an instrument riff.
 
I tend to write solo and in the moment.

I don't really get a chance to work with others on writing short of mentally modeling how someone might react...I would imagine its easier to communicate and hear if you work at a lower volume...but that can be done on a set.

Drums have a way of making everyone start to think like the beat...which I could see muting the possibilities that others might find.
 
In my old bands, the singer of guitarist (or occasionally I) would bring in things they'd worked out at home and the band would beat them into shape - all of the band. Sometimes drums have to sit out while the band's working on chord changes and fingerings, which is just commonsense.

When the current band is working on non faithful covers I'll often just give them a hi hat tick to help them keep things clean until they're ready for the full monty.
 
It sounds like someone made you feel guilty about being a drummer and expressing yourself on the kit and you've let them change your mind about drumming. Or you just don't like being an expressive drummer.

I don't want to play with people that don't appreciate what I can offer on my instrument and just want me to be their straight 8ths drum machine. I know what it means to overplay, I just notice that I don't really listen to anything with boring drums, in fact I think some of the best music is rhythm based.
 
It really depends on how much of the song is written. The singer and I also play the guitar, so often we all bring in riffs and the guitarist will use what he likes and add parts to make it a complete song. Where the drums come in is to track the changes. We will play through the changes with the drums to get the feel of the song down. I will play various beats around the riff to get the right feel. I have been amazed how much the song changes with different beats.

After saying all that, we never write the same way twice. Some nights its the whole band, sometimes its just guitars and vocals and the drums come in later. The only constant is change.
 
Being that my music and drumming are lyrically centered, I take the lazy drummers' approach and let the song reveal to me what it is asking for. For me, the groove is in there waiting for me to climb aboard and put her in gear.
 
I like being present when the songs writing/arrangements are in process, I might or might not play the drums, it depends on the song, it also helps me to get familiar with the new song, knowing it intimately, at this stage, if I play, it's something extremely simple, just defining the pulse for others to work out their parts.

...I let the song reveal to me what it is asking for. For me, the groove is in there waiting for me to climb aboard...

This is what I do too, funny enough, sometimes when I've worked out what I'm gonna play, I need the song and the other players to lay the groove I'm playing for a given number, if I play it on my own, it doesn't come out or doesn't sound right, I need the music... strange but true.
 
It sounds like someone made you feel guilty about being a drummer and expressing yourself on the kit and you've let them change your mind about drumming. Or you just don't like being an expressive drummer.

I don't want to play with people that don't appreciate what I can offer on my instrument and just want me to be their straight 8ths drum machine. I know what it means to overplay, I just notice that I don't really listen to anything with boring drums, in fact I think some of the best music is rhythm based.

Our former guitarist did make myself and our singer/bassist feel guilty constantly, but that has since changed with the addition of "New Guy," we'll call him. Man we stayed unhappy for way too long. What prompted me to pose the question was our new guitarist, and how refreshing it was to be heard.


Me: "Sometime I'll hop off the drums if they're getting in the way of the song writing process and, I have some input of my own I'd like you guys to hear."
New Guy: "Awesome."
 
I have been amazed how much the song changes with different beats.

I couldn't agree more. If the floor plan of a house (song) doesn't match the footprint of its foundation (the drum beat), it might as well have been built on top of a sink hole.

Whenever I'm feeling like the lowly drummer, I often think about how different some of our favorite songs would be if the drummer had gone in a different direction. Zeppelin, 'Immigrant Song,' for example; Bonham comes in putting more swing into that beat, bye bye driving nature of the song, bye bye history.

"I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!"....I'm gonna go clean my cymbals....
 
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