Providing a backline drum kit

brady

Platinum Member
We're playing a festival in next month and I may have to provide my drum kit to be used by about 6 or 7 bands. As you may imagine, I'm very opposed to this as I don't know any of them.

Is it wrong to ask for compensation for this? No one has mentioned this yet so I assume they are expecting a free kit. Should I draw up a contract or something regarding the use of and payment for my kit? Or is this just to be expected when you play a multi-band festival? I've played smaller ones before where all the bands brought their own equipment.

Has anyone here had any experience with this? How did you handle it?
 
Brady, I don't know the festival scene but intuitively this sounds wrong. What about wear and tear on heads? What if a cymbal is cracked? Is there guaranteed compensation?

Surely it should be either a house kit or everyone brings their own. Either that or the organisers or bands should hire it from you. Better if they hire it from a shop IMO
 
I wouldn't know how the contract arrangements would work but it seems really logical, after all they would be using your equipment..I'm assuming though that these other drummers would bring as much of their equipment as they could, if not tell them. That way they would bring their own snare, pedals, cymbals, and even throne.
 
If you agree to letting everyone use your drums all day at the festival, then it should only be drums and hardware. The other drummers should bring their own cymbals and any other items they need. This way you only sustain wear and tear on your heads.

I doubt there's any money for you to provide your kit (otherwise they wouldn't have asked) so the best you may get is for the promoter to spring for some new heads.

Ask for batters and resos. Maybe you'll get some batter side heads for your trouble.
 
Everyone should bring their own cymbals,snare,pedals,and throne. MAKE SURE that this info gets to the drummers. You should insist on the price of new batter heads. If the promoter won't pay it, they don't get the kit.
 
Brady, I don't know the festival scene but intuitively this sounds wrong. What about wear and tear on heads? What if a cymbal is cracked? Is there guaranteed compensation?

Surely it should be either a house kit or everyone brings their own. Either that or the organisers or bands should hire it from you. Better if they hire it from a shop IMO

Exactly. I thought about talking to a friend of mine at a local music store to see how they handle rentals. To see if I could get them some business or at least see how to word a rental contract for my gear.

I wouldn't know how the contract arrangements would work but it seems really logical, after all they would be using your equipment..I'm assuming though that these other drummers would bring as much of their equipment as they could, if not tell them. That way they would bring their own snare, pedals, cymbals, and even throne.

I would assume the other drummers would bring their own personal bits like that. I usually do when I have to play a rented/borrowed kit.

If you agree to letting everyone use your drums all day at the festival, then it should only be drums and hardware. The other drummers should bring their own cymbals and any other items they need. This way you only sustain wear and tear on your heads.

I doubt there's any money for you to provide your kit (otherwise they wouldn't have asked) so the best you may get is for the promoter to spring for some new heads.

Ask for batters and resos. Maybe you'll get some batter side heads for your trouble.

I thought about asking for at least a few bucks for new heads but this promoter is one that just recently ripped off a well-known act that we opened for a couple months ago. I still don't know why we're even playing this show, it is a gig at least. This is the primary reason for wanting to have signed agreement in place beforehand.
 
Done this several times, for the most part other drummers respect the kit, but there is always one or two who beat the crap out of it, insist on changing setup, want to tune to their peculiar wants, etc.

Other drummers should at least bring their own cymbals, their own snare. I have never had anyone even offer to make a monetary contribution but that is a good idea. I have had to replace heads after these events due to severely pounded heads, especially toms.

Unless I know the other drummers before hand, I watch them like a hawk. I have had one occasion where another drummer went into my stick bag without my knowing and left me with several broken sticks...never said a word.

In a festival environment, it is impossible to change out kits - too much time, microphone set ups, etc.

One exception - if any of the other drummers are lefties, it may make sense to set up two kits...

I would at least ask for compensation or at least a proof of insurance.
 
Brady, I don't know the festival scene but intuitively this sounds wrong. What about wear and tear on heads? What if a cymbal is cracked? Is there guaranteed compensation?

Surely it should be either a house kit or everyone brings their own. Either that or the organisers or bands should hire it from you. Better if they hire it from a shop IMO
I agree with Pollyanna on this. It's not something I'd do . . . not sure how you got nominated for it. I'd require that either someone else supplies the kit or they just rent one for the day.
 
You say this promoter has already ripped off a known local act, why would you think a contract is worth drawing up. Are you seriously going to sue them? I doubt it, & I bet they know that.

They want to use your kit because it saves them money, pure & simple. Here's the deal if you really must, they pay "up front" for replacement heads and leave you a worthwhile deposit against damage. Exactly the same thing they'd have to do to secure a rental kit (the head replacement would be factored into the rental fee).

Best possible outcome, they don't use your kit. I certainly wouldn't let them use my kit. If necessary, I'd throw the gig!

Oh, & BTW, I completely disagree that there's no time to change kits at a festival. That's purely down to lazy soundmen, dime pinching promotors, & a crew that can't think beyond the end of their nose. It's all in the planning. Years ago, I did countless multi band festivals/gigs with Europasound & other big touring rig companies. No issue whatsoever. I never play a gig on someone else's kit, & never allow anyone to play mine, period. If that's not accepted, I throw the gig. And before any of the "well, you can do that because it's not your living" brigade chime in, I used to take the same line when I was a pro for 6 years.

Can you imagine a guitarist being told to play someone else's gear? Yeah right! Why should we drummers put up with that kinda crap. What do you do if one of the drummers bashes your nice finish or something, & he can't afford to pay up, or, etc, etc? It's just never, ever worth it IMO.

Sorry for the mini rant, but this "oh we haven't got time to change kits" or "we can't soundcheck another kit" or "we can't store the kits off stage" total bull is a pet hate of mine. ick ick pthwa!!!
 
Ive played many festivals....there is always a kit change. When, on the rare occasion, Ive had to use someone elses kit, I bring snare, pies and pedals.


F
 
Every time I've played a back line kit, it was provided by the venue.

Either the venue owned the kit, or they rented the kit, or got a manufacture to sponsor the event and provide one. It was never a kit that belonged to any of the bands.

I'd certainly expect compensation if it were to be my kit.
 
There's a reason we use the term "house kit" for these festivals...because the house provides the kit. If a festival promoter told me my kit needed to be up there all day, I'd be totally fine with that...as long as all the bands understood that I would be drumming for them instead of their drummers!

The whole thing about "we don't have time to resoundcheck a kit" is total bull, too. Anyone who has ever run sound knows that the kit has far less to do with the mix than the player does. Sure, there is some EQ stuff that can stay the same, but even that changes based on how the person plays. You have to resoundcheck for every player...and moving mics from one drum to the next should take maybe 3 minutes, unless it's a huge set-up.

And I'm assuming that you're either on first or last, so that's why it "has" to be your kit. Well, that sucks either way...'cause if you're first, you're stuck there all day...and if you're last, and anything DOES happen to your kit, you are the one that gets screwed into playing broken gear. Not worth it.
 
When I provide drums for an event I always have the drummers bring their own Cymbals, Snare Drums, and Pedals.
I simply set up a four piece drum kit with a bass drum, two rack toms, a floor tom, a hat stand, a snare stand, and three cymbal stands.
I let the drummers configure it the way that they want to.
I have never had a problem doing it this way.
I don't bring high end drums to these events. Just decent tunable drums with good heads on them.
I use a Pearl Export for this kind of thing.
 
No way they'd be using my kit. People I don't know don't play my kit plain and simple. Like others have said they should be contacting a local drum shop and renting or try and get a manufacturer to get them a kit somehow.

Don't know how they volunteered you to use your kit but I wouldn't have had to think twice before I said no.
 
I've been asked before to provide the kit for a multiband show. 2 pieces of advice:

1) Charge what you think is a fair price for the rental. At least $100 I would think. Barely pays you to bring it there and take it home, let alone pays for wear and tear on the set.
2) Get a contract. If they don't provide enough protection in case someone breaks something, be sure to charge enough to cover the cost of new heads etc.

My personal thoughts on backlined kits are I love it, as long as I can make minor adjustments to the setup and the kit is professional level. Its like having your own set of roadies. I'm an hour away from going to play a festival on a backlined Mapex kit. Then later on in the night we've got to go play another gig in another city. It wouldn't be possible to do back to back shows at different venues if it wasn't backlined.
 
I play at several festivals, every band brings there own gear. There is always at least 20 to 30 minutes to change out gear. The fest I have played at always seemed to have top notch
sound guys and they do very quick change overs. I let one band use my Kit last year. They were from out of town and the house kit provided to them had 2 broken heads and one cymbal. Seeing that they were the first band and we were second. I offered my kit for the drummer to use other wise they would have been unable to perform and not get paid. Plus I got extra time to set up and sound check my kit. I also got to hear what my drums sounded like from the crowd ( they sounded great ). The drummer for the other band treated my set
with respect plus he had skills and great technique and did not pound on my drums. He bought me Dinner and payed me fifty bucks for bailing his band out. He was a real classy guy. The very thought of letting six bands play my kit repulses me. I would not be comfortable playing someones drums. I would not be able to play to my level ( its not my house ). By a cheap set of CB700's for fifty bucks from craigs list and let them have at it.
 
We're playing a festival in next month
Is there pay involved, for your band?
and I may have to provide my drum kit to be used by about 6 or 7 bands. As you may imagine, I'm very opposed to this as I don't know any of them.
If you're "very opposed" to the idea ... that says it all. Let the festival rent a kit from a cartage shop http://www.drumdoctors.com/rental.htm#list or http://us.zilok.com/rental/39189-ne...umset-for-your-recording-session.html?l=38627 just 2 examples. Prices I found were $50 a day, $100 for the weekend, $350 weekly.

Is it wrong to ask for compensation for this?
If you should decide to let them use your kit, by all means, get paid for it. It's your time, and your equipment. You should be paid for both.
 
You say this promoter has already ripped off a known local act, why would you think a contract is worth drawing up. Are you seriously going to sue them? I doubt it, & I bet they know that.

They want to use your kit because it saves them money, pure & simple. Here's the deal if you really must, they pay "up front" for replacement heads and leave you a worthwhile deposit against damage. Exactly the same thing they'd have to do to secure a rental kit (the head replacement would be factored into the rental fee).

Best possible outcome, they don't use your kit. I certainly wouldn't let them use my kit. If necessary, I'd throw the gig!

Oh, & BTW, I completely disagree that there's no time to change kits at a festival. That's purely down to lazy soundmen, dime pinching promotors, & a crew that can't think beyond the end of their nose. It's all in the planning. Years ago, I did countless multi band festivals/gigs with Europasound & other big touring rig companies. No issue whatsoever. I never play a gig on someone else's kit, & never allow anyone to play mine, period. If that's not accepted, I throw the gig. And before any of the "well, you can do that because it's not your living" brigade chime in, I used to take the same line when I was a pro for 6 years.

Can you imagine a guitarist being told to play someone else's gear? Yeah right! Why should we drummers put up with that kinda crap. What do you do if one of the drummers bashes your nice finish or something, & he can't afford to pay up, or, etc, etc? It's just never, ever worth it IMO.

Sorry for the mini rant, but this "oh we haven't got time to change kits" or "we can't soundcheck another kit" or "we can't store the kits off stage" total bull is a pet hate of mine. ick ick pthwa!!!

I agree 100%!!

We played a show with this promoter a couple months ago (again, I have no idea why we're dealing with this guy) and he wanted to do this whole 'every band plays some other band member's drum kit deal' then too. We all ended up switching out so much of the kit anyway that we may as well have been using our own kit. For example, I only used the kick from the other guy's kit because he had a cymbal/tom stand with the cymbal jacked up so far I couldn't even reach it.
I jokingly told my guitar player that they should all have to share one guitar. He freaked out. He really didn't get the connection.

There's a reason we use the term "house kit" for these festivals...because the house provides the kit. If a festival promoter told me my kit needed to be up there all day, I'd be totally fine with that...as long as all the bands understood that I would be drumming for them instead of their drummers!

The whole thing about "we don't have time to resoundcheck a kit" is total bull, too. Anyone who has ever run sound knows that the kit has far less to do with the mix than the player does. Sure, there is some EQ stuff that can stay the same, but even that changes based on how the person plays. You have to resoundcheck for every player...and moving mics from one drum to the next should take maybe 3 minutes, unless it's a huge set-up.

And I'm assuming that you're either on first or last, so that's why it "has" to be your kit. Well, that sucks either way...'cause if you're first, you're stuck there all day...and if you're last, and anything DOES happen to your kit, you are the one that gets screwed into playing broken gear. Not worth it.

I know...this whole 'no time for soundcheck' is crap. We ARE all doing a soundcheck before we start our set. So it really doesn't make any sense to me why there's only one kit.

Actually, we are third from last...somewhere in the middle of the lineup. Again, not making sense at all why it has to be MY kit. Actually, it does make sense. This 'promoter' also asked our guitar player if he could use our sound system. These guys are friends which is pretty much why we are taking this gig.

Is there pay involved, for your band?

If you're "very opposed" to the idea ... that says it all. Let the festival rent a kit from a cartage shop http://www.drumdoctors.com/rental.htm#list or http://us.zilok.com/rental/39189-ne...umset-for-your-recording-session.html?l=38627 just 2 examples. Prices I found were $50 a day, $100 for the weekend, $350 weekly.


If you should decide to let them use your kit, by all means, get paid for it. It's your time, and your equipment. You should be paid for both.

From what I've gathered, the only pay is a 'promise' to reimburse our gas expenses. Which is ridiculous. First of all, we are all coming from different distances; how do you calculate who gets what? This whole band deal is really not proving to be the professional situation I believed it was.

It's good to know I'm not being a diva about my kit by expecting some sort of compensation for a bunch of bands...that I don't know...have their way with my kit.

Thanks all for chiming in.
 
II jokingly told my guitar player that they should all have to share one guitar. He freaked out. He really didn't get the connection.

Let's talk about double standards ...

At the bottom of the promoter's and your guitarist's attitude is The Drum Flunky Effect. There are a few reasons for this IMO:

1) We are usually accompanists so we are often thought of as mere flunkies in bands - underlings to be consigned to the servants' quarters who must do what we're told by our "superiors". You'll notice that in jazz, where drummers have a more prominent role, there is a far more respect for drummers.

2) It's a given that guitarists, violinists and horn players have a personal relationship with their instruments. They touch the instrument when they play and often in a sensitive way. Drummers don't usually touch their kit when playing and they hit the drums - and rock players often hit them very hard. So the drums are seen as something tough and insensitive that can be abused, and abuse of a drum kit is seen as business as usual.

It seems a lot of people can't see how drummers develop a relationship with their instruments and we grow to love them as much as any other instrumentalist does. I don't see why we should pander to that ignorance.

By all means let everyone use your drums if the other players in your band are happy to let all the bands use their instruments as well. If you make this suggestion, feel free to show this post to your band members :)
 
I just did a series of jazz festival concerts and kits were supplied for all venues by big music chains with a promo contract with the concert organizers in return. Brought my own snare and cymbals for each show and treated each kit like my own out of respect {a given}.

Would I supply my own kit free of charge for a 7 band run not knowing what to expect?....hell NO!

That comes from hosting jam sessions regularly years ago and having drunken idiots asking to sit in being barely sober enough to play and damaging my old African mahogany shell Bop kit at the time by spinning the snare quickly around without loosening the stand and tearing a chunk out the outer veneer on my front tom etc...etc... etc...OUCH!...never again.

If you're going to follow through get paid for their time used and ask about some insurance against damage to them is my sage advice to you.

P.S. and make sure this guy is not sharing the same bill as one of the other 6 bands/drummers on your kit for the run :}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diEK8FyQ__c
 
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