So this is it. Crunch time for the new drums!

This thread gets me excited and I don't even know what's exactly going on after that post-test... post.

I think this whole idea has been a winner from the start, bumps in the road and all.
 
Soooooo.... how did it go then? I'm absolutely excited about this and about the outcome, probably because I know a little about the new design and how it will work.

Your last post could be interpreted in both directions:

- It blew you away completely and you've discovered the holy grail in drum building.

- it was not what you thought it would be and now you are considering to build flutes instead.

So, what is it then? I also want some pics! You can mail them to me if they are not meant for public use yet. :)

To some people who have erased their posts (but since they are quoted they are still visible), all I can really say is: Just get over it...
 
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy, Can we see them now? Can we? Pretty please? I'll wash the car....
 
Yep! all excited too, can't wait to find out the results, "holy grail" or "flutes", ...I'll help Larry to wash the car :)
 
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy, Can we see them now? Can we? Pretty please? I'll wash the car....
Hahaha, it needs washing Larry. 600 mile round trip, it's pretty dirty. Just landed back now, & I'm very tired, so I'll offer a brief insight.

As I'm now used to the sound of the prototype kit, I never expected to be blown away by our latest evolution, & I wasn't blown away, but both Dean & myself were very pleased. Essentially, we managed significant improvements in the areas where the prototype was weak, & small improvements where the prototype was already strong. So, using the prototype as the control, this is what we got, & expressed as a percentage to give you some idea of magnitude:

Purity of tone = zero improvement (expected)
Shell resonance = + 10%
Shell tone sustain = + 30%
Head sustain = + 30%
Projection = + 50%
Dynamic response = zero improvement
Dynamic headroom = + 20%
Sweet spot range = total transformation, couldn't find one as the entire tuning range was sweet & full.
Tuning range = + 20% upper range, - 10% lower range

To conclude; the new design had all the qualities of the prototype (except a slight loss of lower tuning extension) but with the tuning range flexibility, projection & dynamics of our existing stave shell drums. The sum of these improvements takes it's performance beyond anything weve either tested or experienced from ourselves or from our peers.

Does it offer a breathtaking difference compared to the best out there? = no, but nor would you expect it to when compared directly to the best stuff on the planet. The principal of diminishing returns applies equally to this project as it does to anything else. We uncovered a range of production & design challenges that will need to be worked through over the coming months, & it wll take many months before we're ready to go into production & take orders. Our aim is to have these drums ready & fully road tested for official release at the London Drum Show this October.

Thank you to everyone for the good wishes & kind thoughts.

TTFN, Andy.
 
Hey Andy, I'm with larryace and Mad About Drums...You will have a very clean rig! The sound of the prototype was incredible...if you have acheived that much improvement over it that is stunning! Can't wait to hear the new ones.
 
Purity of tone = zero improvement (expected)
Shell resonance = + 10%
Shell tone sustain = + 30%
Head sustain = + 30%
Projection = + 50%
Dynamic response = zero improvement
Dynamic headroom = + 20%
Sweet spot range = total transformation, couldn't find one as the entire tuning range was sweet & full.
Tuning range = + 20% upper range, - 10% lower range

That's an interesting percentage rating Andy, could we have at this stage a more in depth explanation of the new concept of the process of building the prototype kit vs the previous process?

NB: I'll re-wash the car, hoover your house and polish your hardware....
 
This really could be something for me, as I prefer higher tunings. At least on rack toms. How about stability? Are the new shells as durable?

Have you only tried it with stave shells, or also with steam bent or segmented shells?

Tune ability? Good? Bad?

Do they hold the tune?
 
I can't go into design specifics at this stage guys = sorry. I can only tell you something about what the design does, not how it does it.

Only stave up until now Lutz, although we'll be trying steam bent options soon. From the stave results, using our existing knowledge, we can already take a pretty good guess at the outcome.

Tuning ability, more specifically, tuning range before choking is improved over both the prototype and existing constructions.

The new shells are much more road worthy than the prototype, & equal in that respect to existing constructions. Of course, stave & steam bent shells will always be less durable than ply shells, especially concerning rapid humidity change extremes, as they still behave like virgin wood.

Holding tune = no issues at all, except we haven't produced the production version yet, but I don't expect any issues there.

As for the difference in concept, the prototype goal was to push the boundries of shell building and to produce the ultimate faithful representation of the timber species tones near field. The production kit is a whole different brief. It must achieve some of the key prototype tone results, but more aligned to the real world. In terms of cost, sustainability, wide ranging application, practicality, & an aesthetic that doesn't horrify the conservative buyer (i.e. 90% of mature drummers), yet encompasses innovation that delivers results worth paying for. It's a tough call for two guys & personal resources.

There is already some benefits coming through from this work though. We needed to invest in new tooling for some shells (& there's much more of that to do yet), but the immediate benefit is a reduction in the cost of our current production drums (BTW, the current superb custom hand crafted range will continue), & those savings can now be passed on directly to customers.
 
I can't go into design specifics at this stage guys = sorry. I can only tell you something about what the design does, not how it does it.

No worries Andy, I'll wait, ...I have not fingernails left, so I just start with the toenails until it's all revealed :))

...yet encompasses innovation that delivers results worth paying for. It's a tough call for two guys & personal resources.

Yes indeed, I admire your commitments and faith in what you're both showing in this exiting project :)

...but the immediate benefit is a reduction in the cost of our current production drums (BTW, the current superb custom hand crafted range will continue), & those savings can now be passed on directly to customers.

And that's a wonderful gesture from Guru drums, considering you need extra funds to finance the new tooling for the shells :))
 
It's all good. The longer you take, the more money I spend on other kits. :)
 
I certainly can't wait for pics and anything more you'll share with us, Andy. It is cool coming along for the ride. Even if it is self serving, I appreciate it! You are clearly intelligent, so I'm sure you are aware, if your customers (or potential customers) feel as though they are along for the journey, that builds some serious brand loyalty in addition to making a fine product.

So reel me in Andy!
 
I certainly can't wait for pics and anything more you'll share with us, Andy. It is cool coming along for the ride. Even if it is self serving, I appreciate it! You are clearly intelligent, so I'm sure you are aware, if your customers (or potential customers) feel as though they are along for the journey, that builds some serious brand loyalty in addition to making a fine product.

So reel me in Andy!
I'll be pleased to share information as we can. The reason I'm holding back, is not so much for commercial privacy, it's more to do with the fact we're not completely settled on some of the design aspects yet. As for self serving, yes, I suppose posting here is to a small degree, but it's absolutely not the main reason for doing so. If I wanted to promo anything, I'd be concentrating only on the positive side of the picture, & engaging in the usual smoke & mirrors of the marketing we're all used to consuming.

Like all of us, we like to share our drumming related experiences, and I thought it would be cool to let everyone in on our journey. It's rare for a couple of regular guys to undertake real blue sky R&D in the drum business, so I think it has strong insight value, especially as it hopefully informs about aspects of drum design that can be applied by everyone towards everyday drum selection, irrespective of brand. Let's face it, most of us think "what if I could build a drum like this, or with that feature, etc", but the reality of doing so in a meaningful way is a much tougher ride. Gary knows this journey with his free floating lug concept, but few here truly know what it's like to do this with the pressure of making it work commercially. The financial risks are family breaking, & that brings an added dimension to the party.

Anyhow, those are my motivations. If we succeed, & it is a big "if", it would be great if one or two forum members ended up using our stuff. At least they'd know exactly what thinking & effort went into their instrument.
 
Back
Top