Gear DOES matter.

I had an interesting discussion yesterday with a photographer friend. Although we're both pretty much gear-heads with everything we do, he didn't like it when I said "the camera doesn't matter - it's that fat head behind the camera that's making everything happen". Although I said it half-heartedly, he argued the fact that you have to have the right tools for the right job. He asked if I would shoot a wedding with a disposable camera - I said no. Would I shoot wildlife if I didn't have long lenses? Of course not. He pulled out an old box camera from the 50s and told me to charge what I normally charge for a portrait shoot and see if the client would really like what he got for the money. Of course I agreed that he was right.

I tend to say the same things here. The drums don't matter, it's the person playing them that matters. Well, I don't really believe all of that. Your gear does matter. More than you know!

Of course, if you're just learning how to play, and you're not out working alot, then yeah, it might not matter what you're playing on. That gear has no more stress than to sit in your room so you can play on it daily. But as soon as you say, "OK - I'm joining a band and will start playing outside of my house", then you need good stuff that will not only survive what you dish out, but has to survive being handled and moved around. Drums bouncing around in a car need to be able to survive that too. They have to survive being set-up and tore-down over-and-over. They may be subject to the elements - and they have to sound good every time you sit down to play.

So yes, gear doesn't matter, sometimes.

I suggest this, if you're going to buy drum stuff, buy good drum stuff. Don't listen to you're close friends who say "the drums don't matter, it's the drummer". Well, if that's the case, then go get a Sonor Bop kit ($400) and get on the next Sting tour. Or, go join a Dixieland strolling group and use a $45 Pearl export snare. Or worse, use those student cymbals as far as you want - you'll know what happens when someone offers you a gig - you go out and get good cymbals.

In addition to this, I think people should start on on much better instruments than they can initially afford. Better drum gear means it'll be easier to play, and those ideas you have in your head will have a better chance of being heard if you aren't constantly grumbling about something not feeling right.

Thoughts?

Agreed. Much like camera's... Drums matter 'when' they matter. You pointed out "the right tool for the right job". There is also the case of when a musician's abilities exceed that the instrument is capable of producing.

I think the reason we all steer newborn towards inexpensive kits is because we all know deep down that the tool isn't the hurdle early on. All one needs to begin is a kit that tunes well and produces a sound that isn't offensive. In camera terms: It makes no difference whether I have an iPhone or a Cannon DSLR, I'm still going to take a bunch of shitty photos of someone's wedding. I'd also be willing to wager that a Pro with an iPhone could achieve far greater quality than I could with a real camera.

It's also fairly safe to direct intermediate/undecided players towards something like a Stage Custom, because anyone advanced enough to exceeded a Stage Custom's sonic palette usually knows what type of kit they are looking for.

I think I can drum up $400 for that kit, that's pretty easy, but I need some help getting on that Sting tour.

I agree to an extent. I think mid-range toms and bass drums can serve perfectly for the gigging drummer. I'm picky about cymbals and snares, though. I've heard plenty of working drummers use XS20s, B8s, ZHT/ZBTs or whatever the lower Zildjian lines are, but to me those don't sound professional and certainly don't offer the nuance I expect ans use.

Matching the tool to the job is certainly a wise choice.

I'm not sure how folks are supposed to spend more than they can initially afford. Many, most of us, live from pay check to pay check and we buy what we can afford, nothing more. Buying an expensive kit for a child who tires of the kit in six months, is not only foolish but not cost effective. Maybe adults without money issues can buy better and it will affect their playing to some degree.

Bo I'm sure you have earned what you have and you use it well, but not all of us have your income and can buy what you can afford.
There are people here that don't have great kits, that are gigging, making money, and having fun. They stretch their dollars just to keep their kit in working order. They are entertaining and having fun, and that should be the main goal.

You get a lot for your money these days.

I don't own a Stage Custom, but they're everywhere and sound good enough. Especially after I take all the tape off and tune them. lol

Will that stop me from buying a nice kit or three, no, but there's also gigs I'd never ever bring that nice kit to.

Sure it does every time you spend your time and money with it aka: ALWAYS!

Going through tons of guitar related options in gear I did not have to think a lot of about the drum kit at all though the idea was decided on back in 1994.

The whole point is that if the gear does not work for you at any level then you drift of with your interest in it. Also once a skill is in your habits it can be used on any gear regardless of what it is and sound to an extent.

It has to work for you! Anything else is a compromise.

GRUNTERSDAD said:

Buying an expensive kit for a child who tires of the kit in six months, is not only foolish but not cost effective. Maybe adults without money issues can buy better and it will affect their playing to some degree.

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Fewer posh dad's buying new $1800 kits = fewer opportunities for working drummers looking to buy used $750 kits. I personally love the market being flooded with high quality, inexpensive, semi-professional level kits.

$800 Renown Maples? F' yeah!

Bo, your camera analogy doesn't really translate.

Plus, you're wrong.

Firstly, part of what you are talking about is charging based on client's impression of what your gear looks like. And I get that. I get that part of being a professional photographer is looking the part.

Secondly, for a starter kit, the best one is a cheap crappy collection of drum shaped objects. When a person starts out, kid or adult, they don't know if this is going to stick. Why spend serious money when you're learning to knock out a basic rock beat? Unlike a crappy guitar, a crappy drum kit doesn't interfere with learning the basics.

Once a person knows that drumming is going to stick, that's the time to buy an adequate kit or better (the semantics of what constitutes 'adequate' will vary, but for me it's a Pearl Export or equivalent). And spend like a drunken sailor on shore leave when it comes to cymbals.

I really do get all the arguments for buying quality gear. At various times I've been really into cycling, scuba diving and other gear-obsessive pursuits.

The age-old "gear doesn't matter, the user does" is really just a classic false dichotomy anyways. Of course both things matter. It's a spectrum, not a binary.

KamaK said:

Fewer posh dad's buying new $1800 kits = fewer opportunities for working drummers looking to buy used $750 kits. I personally love the market being flooded with high quality, inexpensive, semi-professional level kits.

$800 Renown Maples? F' yeah!

Click to expand...

I was ready to buy a 700.00 Sonor kit when I saw my Renown for 700.00 but got them for 650. Sold my Taye Kit for 500.00 So I paid 150 for the upgrade, but I would never have afforded a new Renown, although my kit was 1 week old and never played when I bought it. People are in the financial state they are now because they put too much on credit cards. Buying what you can't afford makes no sense.

porter said:

The age-old "gear doesn't matter, the user does" is really just a classic false dichotomy anyways. Of course both things matter. It's a spectrum, not a binary.

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Porter, you are absolutely right.

Buuuu-u-u-u-u-u-t when we're talking about an absolute beginner, especially if it's a kid, buy as cheap a serviceable kit as you can find. The starter kit will always be sold - either for an upgrade or because drumming doesn't stick. And a cheapie kit is easy to sell for what you paid for it (if you were smart and bought second hand) because there are way more people looking for a 'Random Percussion drum kit will stool and symbols' then there are looking for a Ludwig Classic Maple kit.

Once you're into the regularly playing in a band, sometimes playing out, but not earning your bread and butter territory, nobody truly needs more than a mid level kit. But if you want a top of the line kit, and can afford it, fill your boots!

With the exception of some nice cymbals, and maybe a decent snare, drum gear is over-rated. Sure we admire nicely made instruments, but for many, let's be honest, it is basically just the 'feel-good' shopping enzyme gone amuck.
We've all seen many great drummers playing great on mediocre drums. Why should beginners not play on affordable mediocre drums too?
.....[runs hiding].

GRUNTERSDAD said:

I'm not sure how folks are supposed to spend more than they can initially afford. Many, most of us, live from pay check to pay check and we buy what we can afford, nothing more. Buying an expensive kit for a child who tires of the kit in six months, is not only foolish but not cost effective. Maybe adults without money issues can buy better and it will affect their playing to some degree.

Bo I'm sure you have earned what you have and you use it well, but not all of us have your income and can buy what you can afford.
There are people here that don't have great kits, that are gigging, making money, and having fun. They stretch their dollars just to keep their kit in working order. They are entertaining and having fun, and that should be the main goal.

Click to expand...

Well said GD. Mastering your instrument seems more important than having super high end gear. I say buy the best you can afford with emphasis on cymbals and learn to tune your kit properly.

Gear DOES matter, especially when it comes to keeping your equipment in tune and in good condition. There is no point in buying a high end shell pack and never changing the heads, fitting hydraulics (sorry - personal prejudices speaking) or being unable to tune - or having toms mounts or cymbal stands that drop at random because some component is shot.

Generally I agree with most people's sentiments about cymbals, but I've seen several drummers mounting Alphas and XS20s - and this hasn't detracted from the performance. I'm sure these drummers would have been happier with 2002s or AA/AAX, however, they were playing the cymbals they could afford not necessarily the ones they would have preferred if cost wasn't an issue. It is debateable if this would have been important to anyone in the audience except other drummers..... Obviously, if you can afford high end cymbals you should go for them - but they are not strictly essential.... (I wish I knew how to print an end to my post in smaller text like opentune did)

Gear matters to a certain point.
Like your photographer buddy said, you need the right tool for the job.
Well maintained presentable intermediate gear is fine for most gigs.
My 2012 Ludwig Club Date SE with moderately priced Gibraltar hardware and some standard A and K Zildjian cymbals can handle my weekly gigging load.
I could gig with that kit for decades with no issues.
An inexpensive Acro is all the snare that one needs to get the job done well.

You don't need a $6000 dw setup with 9000 series hardware and Agop cymbals to look and sound good and have dependability.
Its fine if you have expensive drums. it is great to be able to have expensive things but they aren't a necessity.

I guess nobody read the part where I said, "Of course, if you're just learning how to play, and you're not out working alot, then yeah, it might not matter what you're playing on. That gear has no more stress than to sit in your room so you can play on it daily" part.

And many of you are right that intermediate gear can do the trick. However, that doesn't negate what I said about the gear mattering. If it really didn't matter, then you wouldn't even be playing intermediate stuff.

My semi-rant is that the stuff matters. I've had intermediate kits that wouldn't tune and had to fix. Intermediate hardware bits that just broke for no reason. Who hasn't? And one ironic twist I suppose I can understand is that people buy these cheaper kits so the don't have to worry about what happens to it either in transport or on the gig, which makes their lifespans even shorter. If you insist on not casing stuff up (hi, Larry), then it's really only the pro-level stuff that can stand up to that kind of abuse. But people buy pro drums and handle them with kid gloves and carefully case them and transport them. So sometimes my thoughts on intermediate kits is that they're really meant for consumerism. We use them up, then buy more when the time comes. What if you bought better and took care of it?

And James' phrase here: "....Firstly, part of what you are talking about is charging based on client's impression of what your gear looks like. And I get that. I get that part of being a professional photographer is looking the part"
That doesn't make sense to me either. What do you mean "looking the part"? The reason they're potential clients is because they've seen what I can do in a portfolio. I only look the part because I'm prepared to solve whatever photographic issues they want to tackle. If that's what it means by looking the part, I guess that's what it means, but that's not why its there. Same thing with my drumming, I must really look the part for a potential client to say, "That guy looks like he's worth $75 for four hours of his time behind that drum kit." Talk about ironic

So yeah, you don't need a $6500 set of drums. But you do need stuff that works. I applaud everyone doing their best to afford what the can afford, I belittle no one about that. But if you're talking about really going out there and working it like so many nameless pros out there, you'll have the best you can get. The odds are already stacked against you if you're the new guy in town trying to make a name and get work. You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot by having stuff that's just unreliable. That's kinda where I was going.

A great drummer will make a P.O.S. set of drums sound fantastic. It's the music you make, not what you use to make it. Better equipment helps, but it helps some people more than others. If you have nothing to say on your instrument, a better instrument isn't what you need. You'll get more mileage out of listening and practicing, and recording your practicing and listening to it to see what isn't sounding the way you want it to.

When your voice is stifled, you need to carefully analyze why that may be. Is it because of your execution, or is your equipment the culprit?

My intermediate kit is my good kit. It's a Stage Custom that I bought new in 2011. I also have middle-of-the-road Gibraltar and Yamaha stands. I still use my old Speed King, though. Although it's intermediate level I take care to put it in bags and cases when I transport them. With a modicum of care I expect that my Stage Custom kit will still be playable even when I can't play any more. I always get compliments about how it looks and sounds. No problems with the hardware.

Yes gear does matter , to me anyway. I haven't always had the opportunity to obtain what I wanted but then sometimes I could, so I did. What I read here to an extent is the folks with high end gear don't really disparage the folks with the lower end gear but the folks with lower end gear do kind of say that high end gear is owned by people who are sort of compensating for a lack of ability, all the gear with no idea kind of thing. Acoustic instruments have to be judged by the ear and so if you don't hear a difference in higher end gear nobody is forcing you to buy it, but to some the difference is in the details. I think this is true with guitars as well as drums. I can hear the difference.