Drummers vs. other musicians

Of course the other thing would be for more drummers to save some cash, and invest a little in their own band. Then call the practices and rehearse your band yourself. That would end this whole thing but quick. Sooner than later, that will end up being my strategy.

In the real world, musicians get paid. I used to play some gigs as a singer, and would hire a bass player and pianist. We would do a trio . The pianist was from the local conservatory. He was the best. We would make about $150 a gig. I would give the pianist $100 and the bass player $50. I could have gotten a pianist for half the price; but I had a good job at the time. I wasn't doing it for the cash. I needed two guys who could come in and do the gig without a rehearsal and wtihout a problem. If you want a good pianist, you are going to have to pay him.
 
Is is just me, or do all the other drummers out there have to constantly put up with other musicians, especially guitar players, telling us what to play and how to play?

What I've primarily noticed is that once a musician begins to learn an instrument, especially guitar players, they automatically think they know drumming and can tell drummers what to play, how to play, and begin to relate what other drummers they've seen have done, and we should do it also.

Well, that's going to happen in any band, especially if the guitar player wrote the song.
Being in a band is not just playing what you want to play, but what makes the band sound best.

Now, I admit, other musician can get obnoxious about it, and that is not cool. I've ended up in arguments before, not over the idea, but over how they went about it. Some times it's good to say "OK, lets try it your way, then lets do it again my way, and lets compare the two ideas."

But as mentioned above, if you go into the studio with a record producer, or get hired to for a session or special gig, you have no choice but to play what your told. Even worse when you deal with record company "we might sign your band, but we don't like the drummers hair cut or color of his drum kit" are you're sitting there thinking "huh?? What does THAT have to do with anything?"
 
I second this. Some people see the drums as merely a metronome so they can keep time. I tell people who think this that they shouldn't play in a band if they can't keep time by themself. I do not operate a $2500 metronome.
I hate that.

Some guitar player is yelling at you to keep better time, but his time is so sloppy and all over the place, there is no hope for a groove. Or the bass player has been sneaking shots on breaks, and it so drunk he can't play two bars at same BPM, but somehow, he's blaming you for not following him.

Or the "there is no pay, because we want a full time equal band member who will have equal say and responsibility" and then they treat you like a session musician/human drum machine. Grrr......
 
having played guitar half my life and now drums, I think I may be able to help a bit : )

I think it is natural for the songwriter to have ideas in their head as to what would sound great with certain parts.

When I write songs I am thinking about all the instruments. I sing a bass line in my and a drum riff also. Can I play them?

Probably not, but I know they can, so I would always just present it as an idea and if it was good we would follow it each would make it their own.

Having said that, my bass player would ask I play a bit different too, I didn't mind at all. So would my drummer. I think it is great that everyone get involved and say what they think to make the song better.

Now on the drums, my buddy who plays guitar, is telling me what to play. Its a bit weird being on this side now. I heard everything he was telling me before hand, but I just couldn't think of it when I was on the throne.

If the conversation is healthy and everyone is a part of it, it is fine.
 
I recently got out of a band that the leader was a bit "diplomatic" not with just the drummer, everyone in the band! Needless to say, the band has gone through MANY members! LOL.

I try to be civil as possible in any musical situation. I've always been open to constructive criticism, within reason. I have been in many musical projects where ideas from other musicians has made my drum part better, and vice versa.

We drummers all want to get along with our fellow musicians! :)
 
Ah well, we drummers have one consolation: we will always be more important than the ones who stand at the very side of the stage out of the limelight...The ones who will never be heard in the mix...The bassists
 
Oh yeah, my bad. I forgot bass is very important in funk and such things because...Well, I like metal best. :p
 
Hey Guz2, I find your statements funny as hell epecially since you fancy yourself the #1 Motorhead fan. I think Lemme pretty much runs the show.
Anyway, I'm lucky enough to work with a guitar player who has the courage enough to tell me when he thinks something might be better. I do the same for him. If I think he's too busy I tell him and we have respect for each others opinions enough to at least try each others suggestion. I wouldn't have it any other way because you can learn something from all musicians.
 
Hey Guz2, I find your statements funny as hell epecially since you fancy yourself the #1 Motorhead fan. I think Lemme pretty much runs the show.
Anyway, I'm lucky enough to work with a guitar player who has the courage enough to tell me when he thinks something might be better. I do the same for him. If I think he's too busy I tell him and we have respect for each others opinions enough to at least try each others suggestion. I wouldn't have it any other way because you can learn something from all musicians.
The thing with Motorhead is you can't tell which intrument is which cos it's all distorted (even the vocals, lol) so I dunno. Doesn't Lemmy use chords as well? I'm no expert. Also he disagrees with Motorhead being called metal

Sounds like riveting musician conversation lol!!
It was yes. I was on the edge of my seat by the end of it. :p
 
Thanks everyone. This discussion helped. Like every drummer out there, I don't like being dictated to, or "told" to do something, unless being paid and then I fully understand.

I like collaboration instead of dictation. In this group, I'm not being paid but doing it merely to give something back and to gain experience. I need to chill and monitor the situation a few more months to see where I'm at and my attitude toward this band before I do anything rash. And like someone said, it's all in the delivery, or how the message is presented. Thanks again.
 
Whoever has the musical vision gets to run the show. I was playing guitar in church the other day, and had worked out some really cool lead lines. We start the song in rehearsal, and I start playing the haunting lead, and the leader stops the band and says, "Hey, can you just play some chunky chords there?"

In my band, I used to record demos of my new songs to help the other members. I'd sit down with drums, bass, guitar, and two vocal tracks. My bassist/backup singer got annoyed because she wasn't able to write her own parts, and my drummer got frustrated because he was trying to play every subtle thing that I recorded. So I scaled back. I dropped the demo harmonies and did the most basic bass parts possible, and I played the drum parts with snare, kick, and hats. Even then, the drummer was having trouble duplicating the feel of what I was doing, and I ended up trying to TELL him to do what I had done. Finally, I decided to can the idea and just demoed songs with vocal and guitar and let everyone else just play with it. That worked best, and usually it ended up with a more accurate representation of my original vision because of our group's chemistry.

As a side note, I always believed I was a better drummer than our band's drummer. He was a little more timid and indecisive than I, and he always had trouble duplicating the beats I wanted. It never occurred to me that he and I might just be "different". Well, one day a few weeks ago, I sat down at the tubs to practice, and decided to play along with our old EP blasting in the headphones. After two songs I just shut it off. For the life of me, I could not duplicate HIS beats and couldn't even grab the feel that he was able to accomplish. I decided to chalk it up to incompatible drumming styles.
 
I can relate. This is a church group, non-paid position, and we are going through some personnel changes. Our new leader is a rock star wanna be, so it's hard to get used to. Our old leader played excellent keyboards and sang and led from the piano. Our new leader plays lead guitar and sings and leads - WITHOUT EVEN COUNTING US OFF - which takes some getting used to. He gets ALL the solos.

To make matters worse, on a lot of songs, I hear them for the first time in rehearsal due to errors made while copying songs, formatting, etc. on the CD I was given.

I have some of the songs on CD and listen and prepare, others I can't. There are times when I listen and get the general idea of how a song goes and write out the beats and make notes on the lyric sheets, only to find out in practice the entire song dynamics are changed to fit what the leader wants to accomplish and all of the hard work and time I put into learning the song's basics, is wasted. That is aggrevating. And several times the leader wants beats put in where there were none on the CD version, beats on the CD version taken out, etc. I can't win for loosing!!

So in all, I maybe listen and rehearse the song twice, three times tops, then play it in the service. No time at all to get an accurate part memorized or written down. The first or second time we run through the song, I'm still trying to come up with an adequate drum part that fits the characteristics of the song because I have no music, beat sheets, charts, etc. Only the lyrics.

So ya, I'm frustrated. I've never been this frustrated in a volunteer, non-paid position. If this continues much longer, I'm quitting since I feel like all of the collaboration and creativity has been replaced with a dictatorial rock star wanna be.

Thanks for letting me vent.
 
only thing i hate about my guitarists is... they fail to learn new songs or write songs,(they say they are going to but end up playing cover "jam" songs), i dont think one knows how to play any odd timing stuff or how to write some what intermediate songs

secondly they do not learn any cover songs i want to play :/ .

lastly when we do jam they always play the same songs...occasionally change mid song to another, solo over one another, and they believe every song should have a solo(seems like they are more in the band to show off rather than play to make us sound better).

i have gotten used to it but it does drive me crazy.
 
Is is just me, or do all the other drummers out there have to constantly put up with other musicians, especially guitar players, telling us what to play and how to play?

What I've primarily noticed is that once a musician begins to learn an instrument, especially guitar players, they automatically think they know drumming and can tell drummers what to play, how to play, and begin to relate what other drummers they've seen have done, and we should do it also.

This absolutely drives me out of my head!! I don't tell these people what guitars to buy and how to play or tune their guitars.

I don't tell a horn player he needs to hear the way Al Hirt plays beause it sounds cool. Or maybe tell a sax player to play the way "Blue" Lou Marrini plays sax. Or tell a guitar player to tune their guitar the way Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top tunes his guitar, because "I think it sounds cool".

Why is it once someone learns an instrument, they automatically know everything there is to know about drumming?

I recently had a guitar player tell me that I should "pop" the snare drum because he thought it sounded cool. I told him if he'd wait until I finish hearing this particular song FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'd fit the snare part to the song. I had no music or charts to follow, so I had to make up the drum part. It was in standard 4/4, so I replied usually the snare is on 2 and 4 with variations off that to give the backbeat a unique sound. He gave me a blank look, which obviously gave away he didn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Is it just me being too sensitive, or does everyone else have this same problem? How did you handle it in a diplomatic way?

I play with experienced people who can constructively suggest things to me, and me to them. One of the most exciting things in working with other people is to create new music collaboratively.
 
The only reason I find is this.

Guitars and Keyboards can create Rhythm and Melody, so they dominate.
Drums can create only Rhythm, no melody....unless u r some kind of a keith Moon Type.

I love to be a slave to Melody providing Rhythm.
 
Well, drums are by design accompaniment instruments, so we tend to be on the low end of the band hierarchy since we only play rhythm. That's just something we have to accept as drummers (I'm sure a lot of bassists feel our pain too). Drum solos notwithstanding, 99% of our job is to support the band. Doesn't mean we can't do it artistically, but we have to remember that our playing should be guided by the style of the song, not vice versa. But you're right that a lead singer/guitarist doesn't have the right to "dictate" your playing, unless you're given the same rights when the band plays your songs.

And I have to disagree about the sentiment that equal bands don't work. I was in an a 5-piece equal-say-equal-pay band (on rhythm guitar and drums for different songs), and it worked out great for about 5 years, until I quit to go back to college. Of course, we didn't have a "rock star" in our group either, which helped a lot. Since we all wrote songs and sang on our own songs, the deal was that everyone had equal say, but if we couldn't agree then the writer/singer's decision was final. And come to think of it, I can't even remember a time that any of us even had to exercise final say on our songs. Sorry this is off-topic, just wanted to say that it can work, if you have a band that can handle it maturely.
 
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