DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-02-2014, 09:52 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: maldon, essex
Posts: 843
Default Importance of a good drum throne?

I was going to put this in hardware but think it should be out there for everyone really. Ive joined a band, and we gig twice a week and practice once a week, very well established have music videos and ep coming out etc. I have realized at the end of every gig I have rather bad back pains. I slouch a lot but as soon as i realize it i straighten up, but I also wondered if it had anything to do with my stool. Its a CB one, bare basic, and wondering if such a poor quality stool is contributing to back pain? I dont have much money this drum show again, but wondering if perhaps buying a roc n soc top or a mapex 4" deep foam one would be the best use of my money this time round. What say you guys? Or is a CB throne just fine and its all just from posture?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-02-2014, 09:57 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,316
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

As Andy would say, I'm stating the obvious. But yes, a bad, cheap throne will cause back problems - but not where you think. Think of a regular chair, it's not always thick and padded, yet you get no discomfort from it in short durations. The reason is because it's solid and it's not moving. The problem with thrones these days is that players either leave them loose, so the seat top and swivel, or they can't be tightened enough to keep from swiveling. The lower back swiveling is what would cause the back problem. This is why I always tell players to keep their throne tightened up so the seat does not swivel. You want to make it like a good solid, wooden chair in that regard.

Now, whether or not you want a nice cushy seat, will depend on how much you spend. I've taken very cheap thrones and drilled them to put a bolt through it so it wouldn't swivel and that's worked. I also own the top of the line DW and Pearl thrones that have no problem tightening up so it doesn't swivel.

This is one of the main reasons the old canister thrones were so cool - nothing moved at all.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-02-2014, 10:01 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: maldon, essex
Posts: 843
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

so you say it would be a good investment to pick up a comfy throne that also can be bolted to not swivel at all? The one im looking at is mapex with a memory lock so it also wont swivel at all
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-02-2014, 10:06 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,316
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaggerLee View Post
so you say it would be a good investment to pick up a comfy throne that also can be bolted to not swivel at all? The one im looking at is mapex with a memory lock so it also wont swivel at all
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There are lots of thrones out there and the best seem to be those that have the seat on a spindle so you have to spin it to raise it or lower it, and there should be a way to lock that so it doesn't swivel. The spindle is cool because it won't suddenly drop on you if it does happen to come loose.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-02-2014, 10:11 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,322
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Yes, good throne is important.

Yes, a bad throne will cause back problems.

Yes, do yourself a favor and buy a better throne.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-02-2014, 10:15 PM
opentune's Avatar
opentune opentune is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 6,058
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaggerLee View Post
Its a CB one, bare basic, and wondering if such a poor quality stool is contributing to back pain?
The majority of your body is on this, for hours, so a throne is worth the investment. The screw version is most adjustable, and *quickly* adjustable - as Bo says it also never slips.

Did you try different heights on your CB throne? Is your kit set up ergonomically? Reaching too far, or leg angles OK? All these are also sources of back pain.
__________________
Louis
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-02-2014, 10:25 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: maldon, essex
Posts: 843
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
The majority of your body is on this, for hours, so a throne is worth the investment. The screw version is most adjustable, and *quickly* adjustable - as Bo says it also never slips.

Did you try different heights on your CB throne? Is your kit set up ergonomically? Reaching too far, or leg angles OK? All these are also sources of back pain.
Yeah I have, the highest it does has my leg pretty much straight out level so to play heel up means raising my knee above my waist. My kit is all close together so no stretching but not so close that i have to tuck my arms in. My legs sit comfortably without rubbing against my snare etc but not so far i feel like doing the splits. I had a kit ergonomics class at sound attak and have kept it ever since. Just never thought of the stall being that important until now that im doing lots of gigs...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-03-2014, 12:44 AM
SquadLeader's Avatar
SquadLeader SquadLeader is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Near Manchester, Great Britain
Posts: 1,300
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Another shout out for Stagg hardware from me.

I've one of their pro drum stools...it's very much like Rok n Sok only a hell of a lot cheaper

Super comfy and very heavy duty....I weight 24 stone. I can testify to it's ruggedness !!!
__________________
I lost my bag at Newport Pagnell.....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-03-2014, 02:35 AM
konaboy's Avatar
konaboy konaboy is online now
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 3,209
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I will echo the "extremely important" answer as well

Also while you may have your current throne at the highest setting it still may not be the proper height for you. Might be worth investing in one that goes higher than your current one so you have the option to try a little higher throne height. That can also have an affect on your posture not to mention your playing.
__________________
"how are you living your Dash?"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-03-2014, 03:05 AM
Skitch's Avatar
Skitch Skitch is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,735
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Bo is pretty much spot on and I do remember from my anatomy class that the back is very susceptible to injury. So I will add that there are specialty thrones out there to be had. If you are willing to make an investment, the Ford Drum Company has drum throne which are made using Swedish memory foam:

http://www.forddrums.com/

and the tripod base is supplied as the spiral height adjustment. Carl Palmer (ELP) uses these and helps with a bad back. Obviously, they are not for everyone or necessary.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw
http://www.skillpages.com/mike.mccraw
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-03-2014, 03:35 AM
BillRayDrums's Avatar
BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lower California
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

A good throne will ensure your longevity as a drummer. Also, if you spend the $$$ on a good throne, it'll last you forever. I have Roc-n-Soc thrones that are 25 years old and are still just as good. All I have to do is replace the rubber feet every five years or so.
__________________
~

Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://billraydrums.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-2014, 06:45 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,316
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
Bo is pretty much spot on and I do remember from my anatomy class that the back is very susceptible to injury. So I will add that there are specialty thrones out there to be had. If you are willing to make an investment, the Ford Drum Company has drum throne which are made using Swedish memory foam:

http://www.forddrums.com/

and the tripod base is supplied as the spiral height adjustment. Carl Palmer (ELP) uses these and helps with a bad back. Obviously, they are not for everyone or necessary.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw
http://www.skillpages.com/mike.mccraw
I spoke with Jimmy Ford (of Ford Drums) about his thrones and they are incredible. Very nice styling as well. You can contact them direct from their website to purchase too. It could very well be the last throne you ever buy - if you can believe that ;)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-03-2014, 12:27 PM
whiteknightx's Avatar
whiteknightx whiteknightx is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 552
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

the best purchase, bar none, of any musical gear I've ever bought was a good throne. It always seems to be the last investment anyone ever makes, but it makes far more difference than any other piece of gear I own.
__________________
Ayotte Drumsmith 6 pc, Sabian HHX Evolution cymbals
Yamaha DTX950K
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-2014, 02:13 PM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,393
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I will go against the grain on this one. I have 3 of them (a good one and 2 cheap ones) and switch them . Doesn't make that big of a difference to me in my playing . I do feel better on the more expensive one and don't have any back problems at all.

I think it is more about posture then anything else.

I practice with the bad ones because I try to "adapt" or get ready for anything that can come up. Rehearsal rooms, studios, jams,etc.... Nome of them have my throne at the right height, right distance , placement of the toms and cymbals , etc, etc.
Just trying to be as comfortable as possible in any situation :)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-03-2014, 03:18 PM
Mikeyboyeee's Avatar
Mikeyboyeee Mikeyboyeee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 161
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Good thrones are worth the $$ - absolutely!

I'd also recommend one with a backrest -- I've got a Tama 1st chair with a backrest, but I've used Roc 'n Soc w/a backrest and they're great as well... I used the Tama more regularly simply because the backrest folds down for easier transport.

Go get a 'decent' throne and you'll never regret it!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-03-2014, 03:34 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 373
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StaggerLee View Post
I was going to put this in hardware but think it should be out there for everyone really. Ive joined a band, and we gig twice a week and practice once a week, very well established have music videos and ep coming out etc. I have realized at the end of every gig I have rather bad back pains. I slouch a lot but as soon as i realize it i straighten up, but I also wondered if it had anything to do with my stool. Its a CB one, bare basic, and wondering if such a poor quality stool is contributing to back pain? I dont have much money this drum show again, but wondering if perhaps buying a roc n soc top or a mapex 4" deep foam one would be the best use of my money this time round. What say you guys? Or is a CB throne just fine and its all just from posture?
I've got a Roc'n'Soc with a backrest and to me it's the backrest that makes the difference as to whether my back hurts at the end of the night or not.

No backrest on the stool (if I forget to take it or don't have the space) = nagging back pain

Backrest on stool = no back pain.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-03-2014, 04:51 PM
drummer-russ's Avatar
drummer-russ drummer-russ is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. Peters Mo
Posts: 1,174
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I think it is critical. Also good padding is helpful for other parts of yuor anatomy. Probably more important for us older drummers.
__________________
Playing live in front of appreciative audience is the 2nd best thing in the world!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-03-2014, 05:15 PM
evolving_machine's Avatar
evolving_machine evolving_machine is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Jersey.
Posts: 669
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I have a bad back. After playing for a while I started noticing that my back would hurt. So, I tried to analyze what I might be doing wrong. I noticed that I would hunch over the snare, bending at the waist like I would do a sit up. Looking at other drummers, I saw this bad posture in videos of some great drummers, including Buddy Rich and Carmine Appice.

I purchased a throne with a back rest. The back rest helps me maintain a better posture. I now lean into the back rest, and the back rest reminds me that I am not hunching over. I also use it for the balance instead of balancing on the throne seat alone.

If both legs are raised at the same time, what is keeping you from falling over except balancing with your back muscles on the seat. I feel this is a great way to keep from upsetting the back by having some additional support in the back rest.
__________________
I am not here just to keep the beat; I add color, timbre, and presence.

Last edited by evolving_machine; 11-04-2014 at 01:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-03-2014, 08:02 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: maldon, essex
Posts: 843
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Just picked up a new throne seat with a bolt that means it wont spin and an inch deeper, hopefully that should help. Now to help with ergonomics i think i might try a smaller snare size. I did notice the times i bring the 12" snare out i would have a fair bit less back pain than when i gigged a 14, but thought (still kinda think) its my imagination that the snare size could be contributing
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:40 PM
picodon's Avatar
picodon picodon is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: France
Posts: 665
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I think the biggest factor in back pain is posture, more than the throne. Unless of course a bad (wobbling?) throne causes bad posture and strained muscles.
Experiment with raising or lowering the throne, as well as the other elements of your kit. Shoot a video of yourself playing and see if you can spot a bad posture or source of pain. Or show it to your doctor if the pain continues. My 2 cents :)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:44 PM
Midnite Zephyr's Avatar
Midnite Zephyr Midnite Zephyr is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Surf City, USA
Posts: 6,298
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I've never owned a Roc-n-Soc, but as far as thrones go, I've never owned a better, more comfy one than my Tama First Chair drum throne.
__________________
Drumming for fun.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:57 PM
StaggerLee StaggerLee is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: maldon, essex
Posts: 843
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by picodon View Post
I think the biggest factor in back pain is posture, more than the throne. Unless of course a bad (wobbling?) throne causes bad posture and strained muscles.
Experiment with raising or lowering the throne, as well as the other elements of your kit. Shoot a video of yourself playing and see if you can spot a bad posture or source of pain. Or show it to your doctor if the pain continues. My 2 cents :)
Thanks! Il actually try that at my next gig :) Or ask friendly forum members at the london drum show. And yay 500 posts :) took me long enough
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-04-2014, 01:40 AM
Stefan Brodsky Stefan Brodsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 114
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
I've got a Roc'n'Soc with a backrest and to me it's the backrest that makes the difference as to whether my back hurts at the end of the night or not.

No backrest on the stool (if I forget to take it or don't have the space) = nagging back pain

Backrest on stool = no back pain.
The above was the best investment I made, since I resumed playing nearly 15 years ago. No brainer. Buy one.
__________________
[SIGPIC]Yamaha MCAN, Pearl Masters, Tama/Stewart Copeland, Zildjian, Paiste, Remo, Evans, Vater
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-04-2014, 01:53 AM
Vintage Old School's Avatar
Vintage Old School Vintage Old School is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 971
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
If you are willing to make an investment, the Ford Drum Company has drum throne which are made using Swedish memory foam:

http://www.forddrums.com/

and the tripod base is supplied as the spiral height adjustment. Carl Palmer (ELP) uses these and helps with a bad back. Obviously, they are not for everyone or necessary.

Mike
+1. I got a Ford Smart Ass following a back injury and it is worth every penny. After lifting and packing all sorts of gear, riding a hardtail Harley for years the wear and tear finally caught up with me. This back injury is the first and only injury I've sustained in my life.

My two cents for everyone who wants to play drums into their 50's, 60's and 70's, then start thinking long range "preventative" and invest in a quality drum stool now while you're young. The Ford Smart Ass with the Swedish Memory Foam is one of the single best pieces of gear I own. Wish I could have owned one 40 years ago (had they been available).
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-04-2014, 03:46 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,316
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Old School View Post
My two cents for everyone who wants to play drums into their 50's, 60's and 70's, then start thinking long range "preventative" and invest in a quality drum stool now while you're young. The Ford Smart Ass with the Swedish Memory Foam is one of the single best pieces of gear I own. Wish I could have owned one 40 years ago (had they been available).
Also, it's important to begin playing with good posture as well. This is where having a good teacher in the beginning is worth every penny too. I had a teacher like this, and when I started marching around with a drum on, it all helped. Ergonomics is the name of the long-term game!

Because of this I always questioned the validity of playing actual double bass drums with a separate hi-hat stand (as Neil Peart once did back in the day). I certainly don't think I could handle stretching myself out to reach the hi-hat pedal on a separate stand!

NOTE: This is what I thought I saw on the "Fly by Night" video - did Neil keep his hi-hat pedal right next to his bass drum pedal in real life when playing two bass drums?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-04-2014, 04:51 AM
SEA's Avatar
SEA SEA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 39
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I agree, too. When I first started playing, I was using some cheap throne that came along with my first drum set. I figured "ahhh, what's the difference? It's just a stool." Whenever I would practice, after about a 1/2 hour, my back would be all kinds of sore.

A few weeks later, I plunked down the cash for a Rock N Sock, and I swear, it's night and day. I can literally play for hours with no pain whatsoever. I still cheap-out on some equipment, but the throne is something that's worth the investment.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-04-2014, 04:57 AM
GeoB's Avatar
GeoB GeoB is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tidewater Virginia
Posts: 1,283
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Honey Bunny got me a great throne about 8 or 9 years ago. How good? It is still holding up just fine. Well worth the money.

I picked up a cheapo at a pawn shop a couple of years ago ($10) for an extra seat... It was from an "intermediate" name brand kit and it looks like a throne and acts like a throne, but I would absolutely hate sitting on that thing any longer than 15 minutes.
__________________
dic quid gingiberi
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-04-2014, 06:59 AM
Hewitt2's Avatar
Hewitt2 Hewitt2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Deep in the Groove
Posts: 318
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

hmm. To play's devil advocate, in my experience, having a cheap, no-frills throne actually forces you to play with good balance and posture. Plush seats with ergodynamic countours are much more forgiving.

I recognize that those with pre-existing health issues would be silly to do anything other than what the many posters of this thread suggest.

But in my mind, having a cheap throne really reiterated to me the importance of sitting straight at all times and keeping myself in balance. Being able to do that makes me less reliant on what features a drum throne may or may not have.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-04-2014, 08:52 AM
wombat's Avatar
wombat wombat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: perth australia
Posts: 314
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Of course posture is important, sitting anywhere its something to be mindful of.

However having the correct ergonomics is important as well...not just the throne but its placement as well ( and / or the kit components in relation to you)

I cant imagine one throne does it for everyone....... cushioning, back support, stability, height adjustment, 4 legs vs 3, adjustment locks etc.

I am not a tall bloke, but i found it hard to "reach" both toms / cymbals AND the kick pedal.....when I adjusted the height of the throne it became unstable (cheapy memory lock and 3 legs) meaning my posture was forced to adopt positions that were unhealthy.

A good quality 4 legged throne with "screw" height adjustment, back rest (which I rarely use unless I need a bit of purchase for foot work) and decent cushioning ( meaning I dont get pins and needles or "dead leg" from my blood supply being "pinched" by the stool edge) made a massive change in how I play, and how much I enjoy playing.....

I am not sure the back rest really matters, but the extra height, and nice solid stability make the extra dosh well worth it.

Do what works for you, but ergonomics assist good posture, but dont reduce the need. !!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-04-2014, 08:32 PM
petey petey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 57
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

What everyone said here times 100

You have no idea how important the throne is. Invest in a good one
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,515
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

It's the most important piece of gear and apart from those bum shakers, they're all pretty reasonable priced.

I just use a roc'n'soc on a Gibraltar base. Nothing extra. It's just a solid a comfortable throne. I guess I agree a bit about excess with thrones, but if my ass hurts after 5 mins it won't work. This is my work chair for many hours every day.

As a type this I'm actually sitting on a round and not too well cushioned throne at work. I would quit drumming if I had to use something like this myself.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:21 AM
Dhango's Avatar
Dhango Dhango is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rosario, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 60
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

I wonder if this one moved at all. Apparently it served him well.

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-10-2014, 08:24 AM
dat yeti's Avatar
dat yeti dat yeti is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 163
Default Re: Importance of a good drum throne?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhango View Post
I wonder if this one moved at all. Apparently it served him well.


LOL My boss has that exact throne I think! Well same style and look. Gotta ask him about its history and comfort rating.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com