"Pulling the sound out of the drum..."

Seems like I'm always analyzing my hand technique to find ways to improve. Every once in a while I "discover" something that I think will improve my stroke substantially - if I devote the necessary practice time.

This time, I began imagining that I'm pulling the sound out of the drum. I have a decent full stroke and wrist stroke. This is different. It's almost like I'm whipping the drum. The stick starts high - like a free stroke - but just as it hits the head, I pull it up with a combination of wrist and fingers.

Some of the benefits appear to be:

- the stick ends up at the starting position much faster than with a free stroke.
- it works on all surfaces almost equally well.
- it seems to mentally tune my timing more so than other strokes for some reason.
- doesn't seems to be stressful to my body in any way.

At this stage it's very much a mental exercise. I can really only do perfect singles at around 400 BPM, and doubles much slower. But I've only been at it for about a week.

Question: Has anyone used this technique? Is it worth developing it? Pros/cons?

Thanks!
 
Seems like I'm always analyzing my hand technique to find ways to improve. Every once in a while I "discover" something that I think will improve my stroke substantially - if I devote the necessary practice time.

This time, I began imagining that I'm pulling the sound out of the drum. I have a decent full stroke and wrist stroke. This is different. It's almost like I'm whipping the drum. The stick starts high - like a free stroke - but just as it hits the head, I pull it up with a combination of wrist and fingers.

Some of the benefits appear to be:

- the stick ends up at the starting position much faster than with a free stroke.
- it works on all surfaces almost equally well.
- it seems to mentally tune my timing more so than other strokes for some reason.
- doesn't seems to be stressful to my body in any way.

At this stage it's very much a mental exercise. I can really only do perfect singles at around 400 BPM, and doubles much slower. But I've only been at it for about a week.

Question: Has anyone used this technique? Is it worth developing it? Pros/cons?

Thanks!

What you describe is part of the Moeller method, which is akin to the "secret sauce" of drumming. Do a little web searching on the topic.
 
This can also be described as "playing off the drum" which my second drum teacher liked to emphasize. You get much better sound and control.
 
When I think of pulling out sound, I equate it to a great rebound where you completely get out of the way of the drumhead vibrating. Of course a good solid strike ala Moeller is a prerequisite.
 
I find that air drumming the rudiments really helps with developing this.

Also, thinking of the stroke as a very slight figure-8 instead of just up and down just helps in general.
 
What you describe is part of the Moeller method, which is akin to the "secret sauce" of drumming. Do a little web searching on the topic.

Are you referring to what Chapin describes as the Moeller upstroke?
 
It is the reason that I was made to practice on a pillow for a coupe of years when I first started playing the drums. It develops muscle memory. It teaches your hands and wrists to pick up the sticks after the hit. Or at the very least it teaches your hands how to play when there is very little rebound from the drum head.
You want to get that stick off of the drum head immediately after the hit.


.
 
Are you referring to what Chapin describes as the Moeller upstroke?

I'll have to research that alittle.

I do not think of what I'm doing as a typical Moeller motion, which I use in a variety of ways. Though it's possible that by only focusing on snapping the stick up off the head that I've really only discovered one aspect that I had never really focused on or understood before.
 
Playing off the head is like what Larry was describing where the stick gets off the head immediately so it doesn’t interfere with the vibrating head at all. It’s sorta like the opposite of burying the beater on a bass drum.

Practicing on a pillow, as mentioned by H. Jim, was a thing in my high school drumline, and was very helpful in developing this technique.

Personally, I like to air drum sticking patterns using just singles, which is very similar. I play larger sized toms and even with their tighter tunings, I’m not relying on them for rebound. I play them like I play a pillow.
 
I remember seeing a Brain Mantia instructional dvd (those were always a blast of bizarre awesome weirdness, shredding the gnar gnar anyone?) anyway he demonstrated something one of his instructors taught him, snap-ups. You start with stick at full height and as soon as you make contact with the head on the downstroke, you snap the stick back up. Its funny, I still think about that exercise and actually practice it. He also showed an exercise using the snap up, bare with me here, but it starts with stick at full height, then downstroke but remain at head height, in other words dont snap up, then strike head and dont snap up, then strike head and snap up to full height, then do a downstroke to snap up to full height, alternating hands.


starts around 10:20 into this vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3x22j9-lq8&list=PLBCABFED4A20C99BF
 
One of the instances where I wish I'd taken instruction.

I've been playing for almost three decades now. It's really only been in the last few years that I developed my best technique, and it's something I call 'whipping' the drum, but what's been described above is essentially what I'm doing: 'throwing' the stick at the drum head full speed, but the instant the stick makes contact, pulling it away, almost 'riding' the rebound. It feels like cracking a whip (and the wrist motion is superficially similar).

For so many years prior, I'd tried to make my snare more prominent just by muscling into it. Waste of energy, and a serious compromise of technique that made it harder to transition into fills.

Now if I'd taken a few lessons, I might have learned that back in the 90's...C'est la vie.
 
One of the instances where I wish I'd taken instruction.

I've been playing for almost three decades now. It's really only been in the last few years that I developed my best technique, and it's something I call 'whipping' the drum, but what's been described above is essentially what I'm doing: 'throwing' the stick at the drum head full speed, but the instant the stick makes contact, pulling it away, almost 'riding' the rebound. It feels like cracking a whip (and the wrist motion is superficially similar).

For so many years prior, I'd tried to make my snare more prominent just by muscling into it. Waste of energy, and a serious compromise of technique that made it harder to transition into fills.

Now if I'd taken a few lessons, I might have learned that back in the 90's...C'est la vie.

So, is this Moeller you describe, or something else? I think I'm onto what you describe but I do not think of it as Moeller....
 
Seems like I'm always analyzing my hand technique to find ways to improve. Every once in a while I "discover" something that I think will improve my stroke substantially...I...
- the stick ends up at the starting position much faster than with a free stroke...
Question: Has anyone used this technique? Is it worth developing it? Pros/cons?

Thanks!

That’s very cool that you’re always analyzing and improving - it seems like you’ve developed something that’s really working for you! Without seeing exactly what you’re doing, I can’t say to develop it more, but if it’s not stressing anything and you like the sound then keep experimenting with it.

The only comment I have is I can’t think of a faster way to get a stick back to starting position than a Freestroke! With good rebound the stick comes back instantly - it’s about what Joe Morello would call “accepting the rebound” - it looks as if you’re picking the stick up off of the head, but in actuality, your hands are coming back with the stick, to let that rebound happen. We all come up using some degree of rebound, but when you really get rebound happening, you can feel it!

You can see Arnie Lang’s student - their right hand is pretty good, but the left is bringing the stick back because the rebound isn’t there yet - after a while their left will catch up, but you can see when the stick is rebounding - and I think that good rebound is what you’re referring to as pulling the sound out.
 
So is a free stroke the thing I was taught as the first stroke of a double stroke, where the hand stays down but the fingers open and let the stick rebound, or more like a normal full stroke where the wrist comes up with the stick?
 
So is a free stroke the thing I was taught as the first stroke of a double stroke, where the hand stays down but the fingers open and let the stick rebound, or more like a normal full stroke where the wrist comes up with the stick?

Freestroke is throwing the stick down, and letting it rebound (where as you said, the wrist comes up with the stick). We all learn it with the Full Stroke because it’s easier to get a feel for it with an exaggerated motion. The key is to throw the stick down without any extra motion (wasted energy) and let it come all of the way back to the 90º starting point. The next step is to play the stroke at different heights, always letting the stick come back to that particular starting point. From there, one can get into downstroke, upstroke, pull outs, etc...
 
The only comment I have is I can’t think of a faster way to get a stick back to starting position than a Freestroke! With good rebound the stick comes back instantly - it’s about what Joe Morello would call “accepting the rebound” - it looks as if you’re picking the stick up off of the head, but in actuality, your hands are coming back with the stick, to let that rebound happen. We all come up using some degree of rebound, but when you really get rebound happening, you can feel it!

I think the difference is that what I'm doing (jerking the stick up off the head) does not require rebound. It works equally well on my snare as my floor tom (or a pillow). It's the difference between focusing on throwing the stick down and focusing on the physical motion of bringing it back up once it hits the head. I think from a visual perspective it looks like a Freestroke.
 
The only comment I have is I can’t think of a faster way to get a stick back to starting position than a Freestroke! With good rebound the stick comes back instantly - it’s about what Joe Morello would call “accepting the rebound” - it looks as if you’re picking the stick up off of the head, but in actuality, your hands are coming back with the stick, to let that rebound happen. We all come up using some degree of rebound, but when you really get rebound happening, you can feel it!

Do that on a low tuned floor tom or even "fat" tuned snare and you might find that your "freestroke" isn't able to get the stick back up because there simply isn't enough rebound or you'd have to put in too much force to get the rebound you need. Only one of the reasons why you should learn to fully control the stick through all parts of the swing arc. Utilize, but never rely on rebound.

I also wish people would stop focusing on the word "moeller". I think it gets sort of mis-used and lauded as an end-all solution to stick work, but it's really just one tool for the tool box and the idea is pretty simple.
 
Do that on a low tuned floor tom or even "fat" tuned snare and you might find that your "freestroke" isn't able to get the stick back up because there simply isn't enough rebound or you'd have to put in too much force to get the rebound you need. Only one of the reasons why you should learn to fully control the stick through all parts of the swing arc. Utilize, but never rely on rebound.

I'm just a beginner but this makes the most sense to me. "Free" stroke (as described above, I think I understand what it is) as a drill to stay loose and get the most out of the rebound, but not relying on it for all playing...? Seems to make the most sense toward the goals of speed, control, and staying relaxed.

I also wish people would stop focusing on the word "moeller". I think it gets sort of mis-used and lauded as an end-all solution to stick work, but it's really just one tool for the tool box and the idea is pretty simple.
"You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
- Inigo Montoya
Seriously though I keep hearing that word, and scouring the internet and still can't figure out what it means. I'm starting to wonder if it's an inside joke amongst drummers? LOL.

I feel my stroke is coming along well just by paying attention to what I'm doing, starting slow, analyzing the technique from a rational perspective, and drilling. But then again that's been ~70% of my practice over the past 4 months. Still, if there really is a super-secret-amazing technique it would be cool to figure it out. For that time in the future when I'll actually need it lol.
 
Do that on a low tuned floor tom or even "fat" tuned snare and you might find that your "freestroke" isn't able to get the stick back up because there simply isn't enough rebound or you'd have to put in too much force to get the rebound you need. Only one of the reasons why you should learn to fully control the stick through all parts of the swing arc. Utilize, but never rely on rebound.

I also wish people would stop focusing on the word "moeller". I think it gets sort of mis-used and lauded as an end-all solution to stick work, but it's really just one tool for the tool box and the idea is pretty simple.

Yup Freestroke is just a starting point, adjustments will have to be made on the gig...
It would probably help to chill out on the Moeller-term usage.
 
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