How fast Should my Single Strokes Be?

I never said anything about single strokes Applied to a certain musical criteria. But I did say a "Good Drummer", which I believe is a universal term. A good drummer is just that, It really doesn't matter what genre you think he fits into.

I just want to get my get my singles up to an really fast speed, on the snare, AND around the kit. Think Buddy Rich, Thomas Pridgen, Billy Cobham, ect.

When you hear those guys pull out a single stroke roll on the snare or around the kit, you get a "What just happened?" moment.

So I guess 800 strokes per minute is the general consensus?
 
Ok....
Quarter note = 144 bpm 4/4 time Thtat equals 576 single strokes per min. I can go faster... my next subdivision is 32nd notes.
I work all my drills and beats to this tempo...very exceptions. This cover rock,pop conutry,blues,swing,punk etc.
This approach has covered my playing for the past 45 years and several thousand gigs!
Most pop songs live between 80 and say 130 bpm. Denis
 
One of the bands I'm in has a lot of "high energy" rock songs - and some days it is a struggle so I'm trying to get faster just so I have some headroom. About the fastest song we play is 200bpm, and I come in after the intro with a (thankfully short) 16th note single stroke roll on the snare drum. I do chicken out sometimes when I play it live, but I've been recording today so had to try and get it right. The remainder of the song I play 8th note fills because that's the only way I can keep it clean for now.

Most of the songs we do are around 150 to 170 and that's around or sometimes above my comfortable limit (mostly due to my weaker left hand).

If I can get my comfortable limit up to 200 I'll be very happy, but a little way to go yet. The thing is there's so much else wrong with my playing so it's certainly not all I work on.

After coming from doing nice mid tempo pop/rock covers, this was a bit of an eye opener!
 
The competitive aspects of WFD have raised the bar for single stroke rolls. Over the past year and a half, I've spent a lot of time practicing singles and improving my speed. I think there's no question that my acquaintance with WFD and the discussions about it on these forums and elsewhere have everything to do with that. I think that's great.

One comment, though: Don't put all your practice time into singles. As fashionable as fast singles have become, I still don't see too many drummers who can cope with the coordinative challenges that difficult flam patterns present or can execute a loud, very open, very clean double stroke roll. Set yourself apart by learning some of the things that aren't as trendy, too.
 
I know what you're saying, Chaos, but Matt was only talking about speed being a requirement for metal, but he never said it was the only requirement. Some styles - like a lot of (note: not all) metal, fusion and punk do require minimum speeds. I'm a pretty slow player and there's no way in the world I'd audition for bands in those genres.

Chaos, I know Matt didn't intended it as a slight on metal drummers per se. I think it was more putting my previous post into context. I'd really only mentioned a WFD type scenario with respect to flat out speed. Matt quite rightly pointed out that there are some genres (including many of the metal sub-genres) that just demand it. So in effect, in that instance speed is considered a benchmark in order to play what's required.

I saw it as further clarification or additive to my post which was probably a little too general initially.

EDIT: Or you can just read Polly's post......beaten by that much!! :)

There you go Chaos. Proof positive of my disdain for metal performers. Yeah Tim made me pose for this lol. Sorry I didn't mean to rub this one in. But come on man.
Oh I'm not taking anything personally, and I wished I had accented the fact I wasn't trying to single Matt out like I said at the end of my post, I guess something must've just struck a nerve that day (and I probably had just gotten off the topic of discussion with someone else) so sorry if I sounded angry or anything... I wasn't, and I know exactly what you're saying. It is a requirement for most actual metal bands now, but it just seems most people are under the impression it's the... ONLY requirement.

As evidenced by this thread lol
 
I think the practice of single strokes is vital. If you have fast, clean, even singles....there's not much you can't play. When your hands are in good enough shape to whip out 800 clean bpm's....The benefits of practicing singles goes far far beyond the execution of the single stroke roll. Your ideas can flow through your hands to the drums unimpeded. That's huge. That's why I spend all of my steering wheel time (read practice pad time) on singles and doubles. The way I figure it, get the single stroke down, get the double stroke down, then start with the other rudiments. For me, I consider it premature to practice the rudiments without first getting a firm handle on the components of the rudiments, meaning the single and double stroke, and I guess the flam should be included as well. But that's just me and I'm sure there are many who would advise doing all the rudiments right off the bat. I am in no hurry and want to make sure that I have the very basics of the basics down before advancing.
 
I think the practice of single strokes is vital. If you have fast, clean, even singles....there's not much you can't play. When your hands are in good enough shape to whip out 800 clean bpm's....The benefits of practicing singles goes far far beyond the execution of the single stroke roll. Your ideas can flow through your hands to the drums unimpeded. That's huge. That's why I spend all of my steering wheel time (read practice pad time) on singles and doubles. The way I figure it, get the single stroke down, get the double stroke down, then start with the other rudiments. For me, I consider it premature to practice the rudiments without first getting a firm handle on the components of the rudiments, meaning the single and double stroke, and I guess the flam should be included as well. But that's just me and I'm sure there are many who would advise doing all the rudiments right off the bat. I am in no hurry and want to make sure that I have the very basics of the basics down before advancing.

Well said Larry, I've been focusing so much more on singles than ever before and it's exciting how everything is improving so drastically and quickly. A couple more months of 2-3 hour practices days of just singles and I'm hoping to work more on other things as well like get a balance going again.
 
I think the practice of single strokes is vital. If you have fast, clean, even singles....there's not much you can't play. When your hands are in good enough shape to whip out 800 clean bpm's....The benefits of practicing singles goes far far beyond the execution of the single stroke roll. Your ideas can flow through your hands to the drums unimpeded. That's huge. That's why I spend all of my steering wheel time (read practice pad time) on singles and doubles. The way I figure it, get the single stroke down, get the double stroke down, then start with the other rudiments. For me, I consider it premature to practice the rudiments without first getting a firm handle on the components of the rudiments, meaning the single and double stroke, and I guess the flam should be included as well. But that's just me and I'm sure there are many who would advise doing all the rudiments right off the bat. I am in no hurry and want to make sure that I have the very basics of the basics down before advancing.

+1
You said how I feel more eliquently than I could, especially the bit I've put in bold. I know I would feel much more confident at gigs if my singles were faster. Not because I want to play blazing fast singles all the time, but just knowing that the ability is there and I won't have to struggle with any of the fills - it can just flow. Headroom.
 
+1
You said how I feel more eliquently than I could, especially the bit I've put in bold. I know I would feel much more confident at gigs if my singles were faster. Not because I want to play blazing fast singles all the time, but just knowing that the ability is there and I won't have to struggle with any of the fills - it can just flow. Headroom.

Yup, agreed! Speed is the bi-product of hours and hours of slow disciplined single stroke practice, so best to look at as not "how fast should my single strokes be" but more like if I take a disciplined approach I'll end up with even controlled hands and speed will just be in your bag of tricks when needed.

My focus and goal is not about speed but more about deliberate sticking at any dynamic from slow to fast.
 
Some drummers settle for this and some, like myself, will keep on pursuing faster and cleaner singles for other reasons than money...

Good on you. You're a better man than I. If it drives you, do it.

But, of all the things about my playing I'm going to spend my time working on for "reasons other than money" -- and there are a few -- I'm not going to settle for fast single strokes. :)
 
Oh I'm not taking anything personally, and I wished I had accented the fact I wasn't trying to single Matt out like I said at the end of my post, I guess something must've just struck a nerve that day (and I probably had just gotten off the topic of discussion with someone else) so sorry if I sounded angry or anything... I wasn't, and I know exactly what you're saying. It is a requirement for most actual metal bands now, but it just seems most people are under the impression it's the... ONLY requirement.

As evidenced by this thread lol
That's cool man and thanks for clearing that up. As for your last sentence we have to be fair. The speed only tact isn't being pushed mostly by those outside of metal. It's the metal fan boys doing that. Check out any metal fan site or youtube. A good 50% of the trolling on my speed videos comes from guys challenging me to play faster than a part made famous by Mastadon, Slipknot, Lamb of God and/or pick your favorite extreme metal drummer. And I see little addendum explaining an important musicality issue.

As for having to pick your either/or priorities, I just don't get why we continue to believe how one must spend all this time becoming fast when I firmly believe it takes much less time than hours a day. I say you can do big things with a dedicated 40-45 minutes.

Finally...during this yet another speed validity discussion...I find it perplexing that no one seems to fairly address how the winner of the most celebrated drum audition in recent years was won by the undisputed world's fastest drummer.

I think it's time for this to come clean once and for all, so we can finally discuss the many different ways we have in our arsenals to be better musicians. Half the time these discussions resemble the disposition more common to politicians than any musician I've ever seen.
 
Good on you. You're a better man than I. If it drives you, do it.

But, of all the things about my playing I'm going to spend my time working on for "reasons other than money" -- and there are a few -- I'm not going to settle for fast single strokes. :)

I highly doubt being a better man than you :) Sorry if I came across that way...

Anyway, getting paid for the gig isn't the number 1 motivator for me to try to imporove my singles or any other aspect of drumming for that matter. I'm by no means a full time professional, but have been paid for gigs for the last couple of years. Yet I still feel a need to get better at all areas of drumming.

So personally, I'll take the 200 bpm benchmark over the getting paid for the gig one :)
 
+1
You said how I feel more eliquently than I could, especially the bit I've put in bold. I know I would feel much more confident at gigs if my singles were faster. Not because I want to play blazing fast singles all the time, but just knowing that the ability is there and I won't have to struggle with any of the fills - it can just flow. Headroom.

I agree with this and what Larry said. You need to get to a stage where you can play what you need to comfortably (speed wise) so you can focus on on the other areas to make the performance what it should be. I know often if you're struggling with the speed of a piece, it's quite likely that things like dynamics and accents are going to suffer considerably. Once you've got the speed comfortable, it really helps you express what you're playing on the kit the same as you hear it in your head. And bottom line, that is what we're all trying to do as drummers!
 
I highly doubt being a better man than you :) Sorry if I came across that way...

Not at all. Could be my fault for using a colloquialism. "You're a better man than I" is an English turn of phrase that doesn't really mean I think you're a better man - or that you do - it's meant as a compliment to your dedication. It's self-deprecation.

Anyway, getting paid for the gig isn't the number 1 motivator for me to try to imporove my singles or any other aspect of drumming for that matter. I'm by no means a full time professional, but have been paid for gigs for the last couple of years. Yet I still feel a need to get better at all areas of drumming.

Wait until you have a wife and a mortgage.

Seriously, though, I'm being facetious. Of course I have motivations which go beyond money. The irony is that I wouldn't play drums for a living if I didn't.
 
I think it's time for this to come clean once and for all, so we can finally discuss the many different ways we have in our arsenals to be better musicians. Half the time these discussions resemble the disposition more common to politicians than any musician I've ever seen.

Of course speed is an aspect of good drumming. Anyone worth their salt knows this. But, trying to school (teenaged) webz warriorz!2#$!one!111 on any matter of subtlety is a losing cause, and one far beneath someone with your talent and drive to bother with, if I do say so myself.
 
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At the end of the day if your strokes are fast enough to deal with most music you're going to play then that's all that matters. Someone playing adult contemporary and sometimes playing a bit of jazz or funk or pop-rock isn't going to need to be hitting singles at 1000 bpm. If you hear blistering fast music in your head that you want to play, and it's like 900+ you're going to want to work on your strokes. That's all there is to say about it, really.

It's like someone saying they play Oasis or Arctic Monkeys and then asking how fast their alternate picking guitar speed or bass runs should be. It all depends on the music you hear in your head and want to be able to play, and what music you listen to.

The only draw back of this of course is that one day you might get into music which is ridiculously fast, and because you didn't practice for that sort of speed you won't be able to do it. But then you can just start practising it when it comes along.
 
Not at all. Could be my fault for using a colloquialism. "You're a better man than I" is an English turn of phrase that doesn't really mean I think you're a better man - or that you do - it's meant as a compliment to your dedication. It's self-deprecation.



Wait until you have a wife and a mortgage.

Seriously, though, I'm being facetious. Of course I have motivations which go beyond money. The irony is that I wouldn't play drums for a living if I didn't.

I'm familiar with the colloquialism you used but I still somehow sensed some sarcasm in the way you used it. But perhaps there are just too many subtleties to the English language I don't quite understand even if I'd like to think otherwise. The native speakers are always one step ahead.

I'm not sure if I'll ever have a wife or a mortgage, but I got a University degree and a well paid desk job just in case life surprises me one day. I actually wanted to become a professional drummer but - funnily enough - my drum teachers convinced me to do something else for a living. Sometimes I feel like I don't have enough time to play the drums anymore, but on the other hand I enjoy the fact that I have these two lifelong journeys full of challenges and opportunities ahead of me. It's also made me feel more relaxed about my drumming and I can now easily focus on vanities such as developing my single stroke roll speed just for the hell of it :)

I'm sorry for all the off-topic rant. I do find the original subject very interesting as well, but so far I just haven't been able to decide when my singles are fast enough. I guess that personally I'll never be satisfied with my single speed - partly because I spend most of my practice time working on other rudiments and aspects of drumming which means my single stroke speed doesn't improve as quickly or as much as I would like it to, and partly because I'm just never satisfied with my current drumming skills - i always want to get better. But I still think that 16th notes at 200bpm is a good goal, provided you can go at that speed for extended periods with full control over note spacing, different accent patterns as well as different dynamic levels from very soft to very loud.
 
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