Single ply batters

It's a run-of-the-mill Keller maple kit (13x9, 15x14, 18x16, 24x14) made by a local named Jerry Garcia. But that isn't to say that it doesn't sound awesome because it does.
 
http://www.evansdrumheads.com/EvDrumsetTomBatter.Page?ActiveID=3591

The graphs on this page show the G2 has more attack over the G1...however I think it means that 'attack' makes up more of the overall sound. If I want punch and volume in an unmiced rock gig setting I go for clear 1 ply heads without a doubt,

I'd like to know how they get the results on those graphs, it doesn't seem very scientific. I think I'd rather see a waveform image to judge the sound.
 
Well I guess myself, and all the drum head companies are wrong. Someone better notify them that they all need to change their websites. Sorry for being wrong again.
 
Just to clarify, 'attack' is actually a term used by sound engineers to define the initial waveform that occurs immediately as a result of the action that triggers the vibrations, up to the first peak of the waveform's amplitude. On a guitar, the 'attack' would (to all practical purposes) be the sound of the plectrum hitting the strings, on a piano it would be the sound of the hammers hitting the strings. On drums, it is the sound of the stick hitting the drum head. It's a technical term with almost no ambiguity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer#ADSR_envelope

Although the ADSR envelope is an approximation of waveform models, it is basically accurate.

Wikipedia said:
800px-ADSR_parameter.svg.png
 
You are a sharp guy MFB. Wouldn't something that has more resistance to having its shape changed have a greater initial attack when struck.
 
Not necessarily.

Sometimes the inherent flexibility of an object can generate high-frequencies, which is where attack is most defined. The classic example of this model is a very thin guitar pick (less than a .50) that produces a lot of attack against the strings compared to thicker guitar picks. I can attest to this, having played all kinds of guitar picks on just about every commercially available gauge of string on acoustic and electric.

Distance also becomes a factor with attack. Higher frequencies tend not to travel as far so what may seem like a lot of attack from two feet from the drum kit may not seem like as much ten feet away. It's entirely possible that drums tuned very low will sound to have a lot of attack very close but further back, this effect will be cancelled out because of the increased low-frequency content in relation to the tuning.

There are very few hard-and-fast rules about how attack is perceived.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that attack is susceptible to the same inverse-square laws as other frequencies but the effect is pronounced because of the inherent absorption rate of high-frequencies in most situations.
 
The perception of the attack is the tricky part, as I said. I haven't played two-ply batters in years (at least seven) so in all honesty, I couldn't tell you which had more attack at given distances and tunings. When it comes to attack, there are a number of factors that will change how much attack a given head will give. These include tuning, distance from the head, the resonant head, the hoop, the mass of the stick, the shape of the stick's tip, the material that the tip is made from, the angle of the strike in relation to the head and probably at least a dozen more.

Thicker heads may give more attack but it also depends on the tuning. If you're setting up your heads at JAW, it's possible that there won't be a huge amount of sustain and that would equate to a greater proportion of attack in the overall sound of the drums and fewer cancelling frequencies from the sound. If you're tuning your drums even just a bit higher for greater sustain, the perception of attack decreases because it becomes a smaller percentage of the overall waveform.
 
It doesn't really come down to opinion as much as it comes down to the circumstances of the perception. Waveforms are highly dynamic and the perspective that you hear them from may alter the fundamental impression - but that's got very little to do with opinion.
 
Good timing on this post... Ive recently been considering switch to 1ply batters on my rack toms. I'm happy with the G2s i have on my floor toms, but I've never been totally happy with the sound I'm getting on the racks...
 
Good timing on this post... Ive recently been considering switch to 1ply batters on my rack toms. I'm happy with the G2s i have on my floor toms, but I've never been totally happy with the sound I'm getting on the racks...
If you have the extra cash to throw down for single plies on your floors, I think it'll be worth the experiment because I noticed the biggest difference on my floors - especially the 18", YMMV.
 
Does the same prove true for thicker single plys as opposed to a thinner double ply? Say, these new G14 heads against say a Pinstripe. A single 14 mil ply vs a double combined 12 mil ply.
 
Does the same prove true for thicker single plys as opposed to a thinner double ply? Say, these new G14 heads against say a Pinstripe. A single 14 mil ply vs a double combined 12 mil ply.
All other things being equal, a double ply has friction between the plies that has a muting effect. A similarly thick single ply doesn't have that effect. Also, based on something I read recently, a 14 mil single ply will be more resonant than 7 or 10 mil single because of its increased mass, though it may take more energy to get it going.
 
But the tone between a 10 mil head and a 14 mil head will sound different. Sure you should get more sustain w/ a 14 mil head, but if the frequency range isn't to your liking...you have to see if you like the tone of a 14 mil single ply head. I did not when I tried it. I used an EC2 and removed the sticky tone control rings w/ a blowdryer. That left me w/ a 14 mil single ply head.
However the drum head companies term it, I prefer the frequencies, and the tone of single ply heads, as heard from the audience. They are crisper and not as muted as a 2 ply head.

Onstage, the 2 plys sound better to me, but I want it to sound good to the audience, so I use the singles.
 
But the tone between a 10 mil head and a 14 mil head will sound different. Sure you should get more sustain w/ a 14 mil head, but if the frequency range isn't to your liking...you have to see if you like the tone of a 14 mil single ply head. I did not when I tried it. I used an EC2 and removed the sticky tone control rings w/ a blowdryer. That left me w/ a 14 mil single ply head.
However the drum head companies term it, I prefer the frequencies, and the tone of single ply heads, as heard from the audience. They are crisper and not as muted as a 2 ply head.

Onstage, the 2 plys sound better to me, but I want it to sound good to the audience, so I use the singles.

Aren't EC2's double ply??
 
All other things being equal, a double ply has friction between the plies that has a muting effect. A similarly thick single ply doesn't have that effect. Also, based on something I read recently, a 14 mil single ply will be more resonant than 7 or 10 mil single because of its increased mass, though it may take more energy to get it going.
This is right.

I tried G+'s, and thought they had a plasticy sort of attack feel (stupid, I know, they're plastic Andy, so what did you expect?), but I seem to remember they're made from a different film. I could be wrong on that. I still have them, so maybe it's time for me to give them another listen. When the G14's come out, I'll certainly be giving them a shot, but as my toms are mic'd (either just overheads or close mic's), I'd take bets on me going back to my old G2 - G1 default :)
 
Aren't EC2's double ply??

You're right they were EC1's, my bad, thanks Pete

As much experimenting I have done, I have stacks of used drumheads probably 5 feet high, I find that with the lowly single ply head for the toms, and 2 ply for the snare...nothing can beat it. So I'm done trying different heads. I know what I like. Agree with your "plasticky" sounding attack Andy, my impressions as well.
 
Ooooh, just read the debacle over attack :) Everyone's correct!!! But both sides of the camp are talking about two different things. Probably best if we separate them by referring to slap (the commonly used drummer's definition of attack, as being the brightness/volume of the stick hitting the head), & attack (the accepted audio definition, being the speed it takes the drum to release it's full initial tone).

There, everyone happy?
 
You're right they were EC1's, my bad, thanks Pete

As much experimenting I have done, I have stacks of used drumheads probably 5 feet high, I find that with the lowly single ply head for the toms, and 2 ply for the snare...nothing can beat it. So I'm done trying different heads. I know what I like. Agree with your "plasticky" sounding attack Andy, my impressions as well.

I'm with Larry on this one. Other than a few of my snare drums it's been 2ply over G1s on toms. My interest has grown regarding the G14 and will give them a try on my Birch/Bubinga just to see what all the hype is about.
 
In the past I would have never tried a single ply head as a batter but as of today I'm a believer!!!!!!!

The last couple of days I've been messing with 3 different 12" toms...

1) A gretsch new classic - Emperor Clear as batter/Evans G1 as reso
2) A mapex saturn - Emperor Clear as batter/Ambassador as reso
3) A pearl mcx masters - Ambassador Clear top and bottom

No Dampening on any of these

I have them all tuned nicely but the pearl tom has just the right amount of everything, hard to explain it lol. I think it has the most pure tone out of all the toms and I have a feeling it has something to do with a single ply as batter. If I'm wrong don't bite my head off too much!

The gretsch new classic with an emperor as batter sounds fantastic but I think it's just a little to muffled sounding, so the emperor is coming off tomorrow and getting a clear ambassador.

The saturn tom I'm hesitant to go with a single ply just because it sounds fantastic right now but man am I curious to try the ambassador or classic clear on it.

Feel free to express your opinions/thoughts

Thanks - Pete
 
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