Mike Portnoy

toteman2 said:
And Finn, NOBODY made any assumptions about Joe's playing or knowledge because he doesn't like Mike.

You mean other than METAL_DRUMMER, who said "I doubt you people are nearly as good as him." in a direct reply to Joe?

Or the more sly "But if he is qualified, he should know more about drumming..." from figure_02?

Sorry, but if those guys didn't mean to say that stuff they shouldn't say it. I'm quite sure Joe has good solid reasons for his position, and his credentials are considerably more on the table than anybody else involved in this discussion.
 
well those 2 quotes do qualify.

I know Joe is one of the great drummers alive today. There is nothing that can take that away. However I do feel it's a bit in poor taste to bash a fellow pro drummer (who's influenced thousands and thousands to pick up sticks) on a public forum of drummers.

I'm no bleeding heart, but it just seems pretty low.
 
toteman2 said:
Isn't that what it's all about? Who cares if he's not playing complicated multi pedal ostinatos, or blazzing chops. He fits his band about as perfect as one could.

EXACTLY! I feel the same way. Mike is perfect for the job he does. On Pearts thread there are people saying there are so many drummers that are better than him. Who cares. Alot of drummers that have passed him in ability most likley were influenced by him. It seems like if you dont have extreme four way independance, lightning quick hands and feet your not good enough to talk about. I have said it before and I will say it again. Gregg Bissonette is my favorite drummer for over 15 years. He does not have hands as fast as Coliauta, feet like death metal drummers or independance as extreme as Thomas Lang. Do I care? NO! He is one of the greatest all-around drummers there is. He is who he is because he is extremely versitile. And plays whats right for every situation he is in.
 
mikeybbdrummin said:
EXACTLY! I feel the same way. Mike is perfect for the job he does. On Pearts thread there are people saying there are so many drummers that are better than him. Who cares. Alot of drummers that have passed him in ability most likley were influenced by him. It seems like if you dont have extreme four way independance, lightning quick hands and feet your not good enough to talk about.

I think this is a problem you're more likely to encounter on a Neil Peart or Mike Portnoy thread because so many people feel the need to laud them as technical gods above all others. Clearly there are choppier, more complex drummers out there than either, but I don't think chops or complexity are the measure of a drummer at all.

If you like Portnoy or Peart for what they do, that's grand. I don't think either of them come close to being any kind of apex for complexity, technicality etc. even in a rock music context, although they're both very solid drummers who do their thing very effectively. So really it's a matter of taste. Neither of them are exactly up my alley, although if I had to choose I'd probably go with Peart as he's at least a little closer to what I enjoy in drumming.
 
finnhiggins said:
I think this is a problem you're more likely to encounter on a Neil Peart or Mike Portnoy thread because so many people feel the need to laud them as technical gods above all others. Clearly there are choppier, more complex drummers out there than either, but I don't think chops or complexity are the measure of a drummer at all.

If you like Portnoy or Peart for what they do, that's grand. I don't think either of them come close to being any kind of apex for complexity, technicality etc. even in a rock music context, although they're both very solid drummers who do their thing very effectively. So really it's a matter of taste. Neither of them are exactly up my alley, although if I had to choose I'd probably go with Peart as he's at least a little closer to what I enjoy in drumming.

You are correct. There are drummers out there that are better than both of them in every aspect. But what does that mean? If you dont like them ( not you in particular )
thats totaly fine. We are all entitled to our oppinion. Personally, I am not a big fan of Tre Cool or Barker like alot of people are, but I would not go to their thread and say so. What would that do? Like it or not Peart has influenced many, many drummers including Portnoy. I dont see the point in discrediting him for what he has done with drums that makes us know who he is in the first place just because there are better drummers. If thats the case, from what I read, every drummers favorite drummers should be ( for the most part ) Gadd, Coliauta, Lang, Chambers, Weckel and Donati. And a hand full of others.
 
finnhiggins said:
Well, you could always PM and ask. But I don't think he really needs to explain himself, Portnoy's style is most certainly one which has a lot about it that people might not enjoy. I personally don't - I don't really like the way he phrases in odd meters and I find his playing rather lacking in subtlety or articulation. I've also studied with people - notably a really great bassist, whose name I won't bring into the conversation - who've said similar things to what Joe said about DT in concert.

It's fair enough to disagree and say that you enjoy what Portnoy does, and that he's one of the most influential rock drummers of the last decade. Those are pretty obviously both true. But I don't think any of you are in any position to make assumptions about other people's playing or knowledge of the drums just because they don't like Portnoy. There's an awful lot to love about the drums that Mike quite simply never approaches, so if you're more of an Elvin Jones or Bernard Purdie guy than a Neil Peart one then I can quite understand not seeing the appeal of Portnoy and DT.

I'll never manage to beat you in a discussion anyway, so, totally simple: Do you think it was ok of Morris to say that?
 
figure_02 said:
I'll never manage to beat you in a discussion anyway, so, totally simple: Do you think it was ok of Morris to say that?

Yeah, sure. For all the "Pros are always nice to each other!" stuff that goes on around here that's not been my experience. Pros tend to CARE about drumming. That means that their positive feelings on music are very strong, and likewise if they don't like it then they tend to be happy to say so and argue their points politely.

I can't think of a single one of my teachers at Drumtech who didn't say something implying a dislike of one drummer or another during my time there. That's not to say it's a hotbed of negativity, just that not every drummer loves every other drummer's approach to playing. I don't see why people should be forced to pretend they do when they clearly don't.
 
finnhiggins said:
Yeah, sure. For all the "Pros are always nice to each other!" stuff that goes on around here that's not been my experience. Pros tend to CARE about drumming. That means that their positive feelings on music are very strong, and likewise if they don't like it then they tend to be happy to say so and argue their points politely.

I can't think of a single one of my teachers at Drumtech who didn't say something implying a dislike of one drummer or another during my time there. That's not to say it's a hotbed of negativity, just that not every drummer loves every other drummer's approach to playing. I don't see why people should be forced to pretend they do when they clearly don't.

Sure, I wouldnt have cared to say this if he had argued his point politely, but "The only thing I can say about Portnoy is that he had really cool shoes" isnt really what I call to argue politely, it's just a pretty stupid and shallow comment.
 
figure_02 said:
Sure, I wouldnt have cared to say this if he had argued his point politely, but "The only thing I can say about Portnoy is that he had really cool shoes" isnt really what I call to argue politely, it's just a pretty stupid and shallow comment.

I thought it was reasonable enough. Joe is a pretty straight-up guy and he speaks his mind. It's nice to have him around because of that - you know when he says something that he means it. So he doesn't like Dream Theater or Portnoy's playing and he said so in a pretty blunt manner. Is that a big deal? He didn't say "Portnoy was a load of crap" or anything like that. He just implied that the only thing he could talk positively about from that concert is Mike's shoes - i.e, nothing musical whatsoever. If that's his opinion then I don't think many here are qualified to tell Joe he's objectively wrong on that.
 
finnhiggins said:
I thought it was reasonable enough. Joe is a pretty straight-up guy and he speaks his mind. It's nice to have him around because of that - you know when he says something that he means it. So he doesn't like Dream Theater or Portnoy's playing and he said so in a pretty blunt manner. Is that a big deal? He didn't say "Portnoy was a load of crap" or anything like that. He just implied that the only thing he could talk positively about from that concert is Mike's shoes - i.e, nothing musical whatsoever. If that's his opinion then I don't think many here are qualified to tell Joe he's objectively wrong on that.

I dont care if it was Buddy Rich who said it, it was pretty dumb, and the fact that he is a professional/well known drummer makes it even worse.
 
figure_02 said:
I dont care if it was Buddy Rich who said it, it was pretty dumb, and the fact that he is a professional/well known drummer makes it even worse.

Buddy woulda probably said something about Portnoy not even being fit to shine his shoes.... but then again Buddy wasn't always warm and fuzzy..

I'm not sure why everybody's got their hackles up over Joe's comment. If he had flamed somebody on the forum who posted a clip for feedback/comments - then yes, that kind of dismissive remark would be out of line, but Portnoy's not in that camp. He's not an aspiring drummer - he's already one of the big boys and as such, I think he can take the heat... I mean seriously, does anybody think Mike is sitting at home in a funk, unable to get out of bed thinking about giving up music because of Joe's comment???

I'd rather know how the heavyweights honestly feel about each other's styles and music than not get anything just because 'if you can't say something nice, it's better to say nothing...". Joe's comment let me know beyond any doubt that doesn't like that style of music/drumming (and he thinks MP's ove) - he's not alone...
 
yeah.. i totaly agree to that, just now....

i bought this 30th reunion-something dvd of rush, ane, men, Neil Peart is a better 'percussionist' (i never really thought of the term til now), but mike is (as he've said) a better drummer. but there's no comparing to them.. i think theyre both good at what they are doing....
 
Mike P. is a great drummer, ok, maybe not the best, but even he admits that.......I personaly think it is very low and shallow for a pro drummer to slag another on a public forum. It's not like the guy is giving any kind of professional critisisim. I mean, you go to see D.T., knowing what they are like, then you go to a M.P. thread and talk junk, sounds like someone has a lot of spare time........and P.S......just because this guy is a so called "pro", doesn't mean you have to "brown nose" it, God, that is one draw back on this site, everyone wants on the good threads and feel like there"up there" with the pro's.
Grow up, it's Drums, have fun!!!!
 
dream theater's music in general has inspired me to be a better musician. mike portnoy was my first technical influence. so as much as i thank portnoy for the influence in the beginning (and still today) i thank dream theater most of all for showing me where music can go. that's where i stand on that subject..
 
It's taken a while to get through this post! I have to say that I come down on the side of Finn and I think he was right in commenting that those of us that adhere more to the Purdie/Gadd groove side of things find less enjoyment in listening to Portnoy. That is not to say that he is not an adept and good drummer - just that his playing does not inspire the same range of emotional reaction in all of us.

I do think, however, that some posters have gone overboard in their reaction to Joe's post. Of course, I have some self interest here in that I feel similarly and actually posted earlier also pointing out that I also liked MP's shoes! I am sure Joe had no intention of being controversial but was just posting an opinion: an opinion based on a wealth of talent and experience. And, may I be so bold as to suggest, an opinion to which many "he's my favorite drummer/they're my favorite band/how dare he/it's like he insulted my Momma" posters, should probably defer. Or at least, if not deferring, they should probably reflect on why he might have said that. Oh my God!! Maybe he's right!!

A criticism from someone with the basis to make such a criticism is not a personal attack on you and your likes and dislikes. Listen, evaluate, reflect and learn! If after all of that you disagree then so be it. And, by the way, I truly disagree that there was anything unprofessional in Joe's post.

You should feel free to diagree with me - I won't be offended!

Paul
 
The whole thing that bugged me was to hear that a "pro" drummer would go on a public forum and talk crap, .....sure, everyone has an opinion, but, lets say I went to your house and you asked me if ur new baby was cute , what would think if I said
"Well, the shoes are nice........"?
I love so many drummers for so many reasons that I find something good to say about almost anyone I hear play well, just like I would probaly humor you and say,
"You're baby has your eyes......"
 
HardcoreLogo said:
The whole thing that bugged me was to hear that a "pro" drummer would go on a public forum and talk crap, .....sure, everyone has an opinion, but, lets say I went to your house and you asked me if ur new baby was cute , what would think if I said
"Well, the shoes are nice........"?
I love so many drummers for so many reasons that I find something good to say about almost anyone I hear play well, just like I would probaly humor you and say,
"You're baby has your eyes......"

Bloody hell you people all need to stop being so touchy. It's not like Joe's been paying social visits to Mike at home and telling him he has ugly kids. Dream Theater put music on public display, Joe paid to go see it and didn't enjoy what he saw.

Joe put his opinion here on public display, and some of you don't like what you see. Well, big deal. None of us have any right to tell Dream Theater to just give up and go get day jobs, likewise none of you have any right to tell Joe he's not allowed to assert his musical opinions in a public forum. Particularly when he's clearly somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.

The only reason I even pointed out that Joe was a pro with a page on DW was because he was being accused of being a poor player just because he didn't like Dream Theater. That was obviously asinine, so I felt the need to point that out. It's a stupid argument, but made with unfortunate regularity on the thread for almost any contentious drummer - be it Portnoy or Weckl, Travis Barker or Joey Jordison. This time it just happened to be made towards the wrong person.

But realistically it doesn't even make a difference if Joe's a pro or not. He has a right to say what he thinks, just as you or I do. Do you people really have such trouble processing dissenting opinions?
 
finnhiggins said:
Bloody hell you people all need to stop being so touchy. It's not like Joe's been paying social visits to Mike at home and telling him he has ugly kids. Dream Theater put music on public display, Joe paid to go see it and didn't enjoy what he saw.

Joe put his opinion here on public display, and some of you don't like what you see. Well, big deal. None of us have any right to tell Dream Theater to just give up and go get day jobs, likewise none of you have any right to tell Joe he's not allowed to assert his musical opinions in a public forum. Particularly when he's clearly somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.

The only reason I even pointed out that Joe was a pro with a page on DW was because he was being accused of being a poor player just because he didn't like Dream Theater. That was obviously asinine, so I felt the need to point that out. It's a stupid argument, but made with unfortunate regularity on the thread for almost any contentious drummer - be it Portnoy or Weckl, Travis Barker or Joey Jordison. This time it just happened to be made towards the wrong person.

But realistically it doesn't even make a difference if Joe's a pro or not. He has a right to say what he thinks, just as you or I do. Do you people really have such trouble processing dissenting opinions?
I agree with what your saying, I'm really not that big of a Portnoy fan, and I'm not some kid who is playing"who's the best" or "who's knows the most about..." I just feel it's UNPROFESSIONAL to slag other people in a public form. Sorry.....
THATS MY OPINION.....lol
P.S.
I'm sure Mike will not give up and get a day job over anything posted on this site.........
 
All I know is Mike Portnoy is in the Modern Drummer hall of fame for his contributions to drumming. I have not seen a complete list of all the musicians who are in the hall of fame, but I am pretty sure they are all fantastic musicians.
As for the flaming Portnoy that is one's perogative, however, another professional drummer should remember that others may make similar comments based on what they have heard about you.
I don't post much, but, I enjoy reading the posts. Hopefully this forum can be a place where drummers can exchange information, be a fan club for drummers who catch their ear, and give advice to leverage our skills as drummers. So in my humble opinion, if a person does not like the playing style of a particular drummer or thinks they are not all that good, why say something at all. I am sure there might have been people back in the day who though that Gene Krupa sucked. All I know is I see more and more slamming of drummers on this forum, and I think it sucks. Perhaps we can start a web site called thisdrummersucks.com so we can have more constructive threads on this one.

Corey
 
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