played (maybe joined) in blues band

opentune

Platinum Member
I play weekly in a 70's 80's classic rock band but was looking to broaden horizons. Placed an ad and this blues trio wanted a drummer.

Went out last night. I had to bone up on various shuffles for 15 tunes last week (which I don't play a lot in the other band) and have to say it was challenging, way harder than it sounds. I could hold time, but it was hard to do any embellishment on a shuffle, and 'fills' or anything fancy at bar 11 (you know , kind of end of verse) were somehow hard to pull off. Playing 'straight' time seemed so much easier...

Anyway, they liked me, it was enjoyable and I am now debating whether to 'join'. Not sure I have the time for 2 bands, but I realized immediately it would make me 'play up' and improve my drumming palette overall. Was quite the education getting out of your comfort zone.
 
Congrats Louis. The only thing you'll hear from me is encouragement to keep with these guys. If you asked my opinion I feel that everyone should get a good solid background in the blues. With rock you play more "outwardly". With blues it's the opposite. Except for some endings. That is where you can safely cut loose, but don't leave the guitar necks hanging, waiting for you to finish. You still have to be one with the band. As soon as the guitar player lifts his neck up, I abandon what I'm playing and end on his lead. Guitarists very much appreciate that.

If I could offer some thoughts....Shuffles....don't fill, unless you have to. No fills just because you want to. Generally speaking, toms kill the shuffle feel. Hand to hand single note fills....usually don't work, with many exceptions, but generally speaking, fills are waaaay on the back burner....your job is to never let the shuffle feel drop out. (except for stops and such) Playing a great feeling shuffle is a reward all by itself.

Instead of fills, use alternate tricks instead. Dropping the volume down for the 4th progression of a lead for instance. If a section does require a fill, IMO, double strokes phrased as triplets really shine in a shuffle. Cymbal swells followed by a quick choke are a nice transition. Nailing the snare on beat one after the peak of a solo, right when the vocal resumes...is devastatingly effective. Nailing beat one with a snare hit or flam after a great solo is an applause trigger, that rarely fails. (don't do it too loud though) Unison triplet buildups between 3 limbs is also a "fill" that works well.

Forget all the rock fills, really, and forget trying to impress anyone with your drum part, and totally think differently. Nuance. Don't stick out. Be totally secure that keeping the beat sounds friggin phenomenal. You are NOT boring if you don't fill for 32 bars. Play tasty stuff that's not over the top. What's opposite of over the top? That's how you need to think. By thinking opposite of over the top, in blues, you actually accomplish what you think you would, if you did try and play over the top. There's a reward for being able to hold back. It comes in the form of compliments and calls to play from the other players.

Biggest complaint of other musicians directed towards drummers trying to play blues....they play too many notes. It's not rock. I know a drummer who gives a rock treatment to almost every song he plays. It's just not appropriate. Drums are so NOT a lead instrument in blues. But drums are still crucial to the feel. You have in your hands the power to make or break a blues song, your choice.

I love trios. You are fully 1/3 of the output. Everyone has their own sonic space, and it's not too crowded.

I've identified only 6 different rhythms that my blues band plays:

Shuffles and all the variations (which are numerous)
Straight time 4 on the floor type beats and the various variations lol
Backbeat rhumba, and non backbeat rhumba
Bo Diddley beat
12/8 slow blues
2/4 country beats

Sorry for the novel. The subject is dear to my heart.
 
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In the various Americana styles, when playing shuffles & swing, fills are typically very straight ahead - often just triplets - if they're needed at all. The discipline to exercise this correctly is part of a crucial skillset for any drummer. It's like understanding that straight 2&4 is often the best thing a drummer can play on a really funky song.

I do a fair amount of Blues, Country, Rockabilly and Swing, and it becomes very natural to just groove, and keep fills simple, and to a minimum. About half the time, I simply hit a crash to signify the top of the next section, and sometimes just play straight through. There's a nice smoothness that comes from the drummer just playing the groove while everyone else transitions to the bridge, for example.

Bermuda
 
About half the time, I simply hit a crash to signify the top of the next section, and sometimes just play straight through. There's a nice smoothness that comes from the drummer just playing the groove while everyone else transitions to the bridge, for example.

Bermuda

This^. I arrived at these same conclusions myself. Playing straight through...on paper sounds boring, but when you are actually doing it, it feels SOOO good to keep the continuity. The simple lone crash is a very useful marker, if you need to mark something.

Sometimes marking the top of the progression all the time...or marking when the vocal comes in all the time...it's kind of like dumbing it down for the others. Sometimes it's needed and sounds great, other times it's best to not mark anything. It builds tension. Don't feel you have to mark every place that can be marked.
 
Congratulations! & especially as it's out of your comfort zone. I have an audition a week on Friday for a band that's way out of my comfort zone. I'm short of time too, so I have some empathy with your situation. TBH, I don't know if I'm "feeling it", but at least I don't have to work on shuffles (something I absolutely must do at some stage). Larry is Mr. shuffle as far as I'm concerned, so his opinions carry 100% weight with me :)

Good luck!
 
As a primarily pop/rock drummer, fusion and jazz and serious Latin styles are way out of my comfort zone, mainly because I don't possess enough skills to effectively play those styles, which is a result of my not really listening to them in the first place. So my comfort zone has more to do with technical (in)ability than anything else.

But it's interesting that the idea of playing less technically - such as going from almost any genre to the relative technical simplicity of blues - would create any concerns. Well, at least not from an execution standpoint. Then again, I've met hardcore jazz drummers who just cannot play straight time. The idea of 8th notes on the hat is completely foreign and clumsy for them to play. I imagine they're just as incredulous about how many rock drummers can't swing.

The concept of a comfort zone is very subjective!

Bermuda
 
My last drum instructor had a great story about a teacher at Musician's Institute in LA who was a real beast with the Latin stuff. I'm assuming that was also what he taught. He once told my teacher that the hardest thing in the world for him to play was the Beatles, something about that straight, simple 8th note beat just baffled him.

I suppose comfort zones are subjective.
 
I think the tendency for most male drummers is to try and impress and play a lot of stuff. In genres like latin, jazz, some rock stuff, metal, that dovetails nicely. But when you have to introduce a heaping helping of restraint, it throws off the thought process in these same players, generally speaking. Drummers have a tendency to think they are boring keeping the feel continuous for a minute or more. Biggest and most common pitfall if ever there was one...Groove and repetition are like 2 sides of the same coin. They are dependent on each other. Not saying you can't groove without repetition, just generally speaking, groove has an element of repetition. There is nothing bad about repetition. That was my biggest stumbling point early on.You can't give in to the temptation of playing like the genres listed above for blues. The thing is, I get all the satisfaction of playing a lot, without playing a lot. It's working smarter not harder. The young guys are normally out to impress, and basically working too hard. Working hard is good, working too hard is not. I went through that in a big way. That whole mindset eventually gives way to a more...controlled and restrained....but no less creative...mindset for effective blues playing. That takes some time to realize, if there is no one there coaching you.

Even being told about pitfalls, many times a person has to experience it for themselves before anything really sinks in. It's like "Oh THAT'S what you were talking about, I get it now.
 
thanks Larry, Jon, Andy for all the tips and encouragement. Being first time out, I was really trying hard to have no frills.... at all, but yes every time I mixed it in, and 'tried some chops' even for a bar, I lost the flow. Too much thinking.
Notes to self - stay away from those toms, play inward, single crash, stay disciplined. Its all very Zen!
I'm thinking to stick with it, given my time limits I maybe eventually get out of the rock band. Compared to the rock band this has some real swing.
 
I think the tendency for most male drummers is to try and impress and play a lot of stuff. In genres like latin, jazz, some rock stuff, metal, that dovetails nicely. But when you have to introduce a heaping helping of restraint, it throws off the thought process in these same players, generally speaking. Drummers have a tendency to think they are boring keeping the feel continuous for a minute or more. Biggest and most common pitfall if ever there was one...Groove and repetition are like 2 sides of the same coin. They are dependent on each other. Not saying you can't groove without repetition, just generally speaking, groove has an element of repetition. There is nothing bad about repetition. That was my biggest stumbling point early on.You can't give in to the temptation of playing like the genres listed above for blues. The thing is, I get all the satisfaction of playing a lot, without playing a lot. It's working smarter not harder. The young guys are normally out to impress, and basically working too hard. Working hard is good, working too hard is not. I went through that in a big way. That whole mindset eventually gives way to a more...controlled and restrained....but no less creative...mindset for effective blues playing. That takes some time to realize, if there is no one there coaching you.

Even being told about pitfalls, many times a person has to experience it for themselves before anything really sinks in. It's like "Oh THAT'S what you were talking about, I get it now.


100% correct !

I constantly struggle with keeping my fills to a minimum. I usually play while other drummers are watching me.
And of course I'd like to impress them.


.
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100% correct !

I constantly struggle with keeping my fills to a minimum. I usually play while other drummers are watching me.
And of course I'd like to impress them.

Man I'd say forget about trying to impress anyone. That usually has the opposite effect in my world. I play my worst stuff when I consciously try and impress. If I know someone is looking at me...not good. I tend to stare off in the distance and not look at anyone looking at me to avoid that. If I can close my eyes, I do. Because when I know I'm being checked out, my ego creeps in and ruins everything, every time. But closing the eyes is generally not a good tactic either. Ideally, I want to be completely aware of what's being played, and completely unaware of anyone checking me out. Not there yet. Ego as a part of drumming....not a good combination for me.
 
. Ego as a part of drumming....not a good combination for me.

so No drum solo or grand finale for you then!?

Quite frankly, Charlie Watts gets a lot of flack on here for his stoic nature, no emotion or flair behind the kit, but I love it, and he's steady as a rock. His approach even fits with him being surrounded by band members who are totally extraverts on stage.
 
I came from a rock background and now play almost exclusively blues... all good suggestions from Larry and Jon and others - I agree 100%

a problem I encountered when starting out playing blues, again coming from a rock background, the 'straight' feel prevalent in most rock music vs. the 'swung' triplet kind of feel necessary for most blues tunes... just takes some intense listening to blues to get that feel into your blood stream.

Another stumbling block for me was the tendency to do a "ZZ Top" (for lack of a better descriptor) shuffle -- basically playing straight w/the hands and shuffling the bass drum... necessary skill for 'blues rock' (ZZ, Foghat etc..) -- not so much for a more traditional approach. Four on the floor and double-shuffle (or any of the myriad variants - east side, west side, texas, chicago, flat-tire - the list goes on) w/the hands is the way to go when in doubt!.

Lots and lots of listening really did the trick for me -- it's a continuous learning curve (for me at least) -- somebody said "Easy to learn, takes a lifetime to Master" and I kind of agree with that. The more I play, I find out just how little I KNOW!

Good luck - it's really fun music to play and you'll definitely know when you're doing it right... and you'll chase that feeling!

Mike
 
so No drum solo or grand finale for you then!?

Quite frankly, Charlie Watts gets a lot of flack on here for his stoic nature, no emotion or flair behind the kit, but I love it, and he's steady as a rock. His approach even fits with him being surrounded by band members who are totally extraverts on stage.

Yea no solos for me. OK there's 2 songs I get solo's in, but we only whip out those songs in dedicated blues gigs, and not every blues gig. Most of my gigs we function as a cover band. Being controlled and restrained....doesn't have to mean stoic. It's mainly in the playing choices. How you play with control and restraint can be very exciting. I put all kinds of emotion in the beat itself.

I came from a rock background and now play almost exclusively blues... all good suggestions from Larry and Jon and others - I agree 100%

a problem I encountered when starting out playing blues, again coming from a rock background, the 'straight' feel prevalent in most rock music vs. the 'swung' triplet kind of feel necessary for most blues tunes... just takes some intense listening to blues to get that feel into your blood stream.

Another stumbling block for me was the tendency to do a "ZZ Top" (for lack of a better descriptor) shuffle -- basically playing straight w/the hands and shuffling the bass drum... necessary skill for 'blues rock' (ZZ, Foghat etc..) -- not so much for a more traditional approach. Four on the floor and double-shuffle (or any of the myriad variants - east side, west side, texas, chicago, flat-tire - the list goes on) w/the hands is the way to go when in doubt!.

Lots and lots of listening really did the trick for me -- it's a continuous learning curve (for me at least) -- somebody said "Easy to learn, takes a lifetime to Master" and I kind of agree with that. The more I play, I find out just how little I KNOW!

Good luck - it's really fun music to play and you'll definitely know when you're doing it right... and you'll chase that feeling!

Mike

Re: chasing that feeling. Oh yea. Nailing the exact right feeling tempo with the exact right inflections in the beat...priceless. A feeling you chase for sure.

Totally agree about the listening too. It also really helps if you love love love blues. I listened to blues for 20 years before I ever really played it seriously. Was a rock player, I had to to quit music in 1984 to learn how to earn real money. (I wanted to live in my own house someday) I started listening to blues in 1983. January 2nd 1983 to be exact. By 1984 I was totally hooked. But I quit music in late 1984 and listened to blues almost exclusively from then until I resumed playing in 2003. So I had quite the backlog of inspiration to draw from.

Mike can you elaborate on your descriptions of west side (coast?) vs east side?
 
There's a nice smoothness that comes from the drummer just playing the groove while everyone else transitions to the bridge, for example.

Great example. Generally, everybody shouldn't be playing the same accents all the time. Sometimes it's our job simply to keep things in line.

This is one of the many things I've learned in the past few year by listening instead of just playing.
 
For me, the bass drum shuffle is where I started. The simple 2/4 on the hats with the bass drum doing the shuffle hitting the 1 and 3, and the "et" of tri-pl-et before the 2 & 4. I'm glad I started there because getting the bass drum involved in the shuffling will expand your horizons rather than just doing a four on the floor while your hats and snare are shuffling.

A nice little fill that I like to use is a cymbal crash on the 1 after a short buzz roll with the left hand on the snare. John Bonham did that a lot. Wonder where I got that from?
 
Another thing I'd like to add is smoothness. It's all about being smooth. Basically, no sudden moves. An analogy would be when you are driving a car, you could take turns so your passengers get flung around in the seat, or, you could take turns where your passengers don't notice the G forces at all. Smooth like butta. That's what I'm talking about. The stuff that goes right by people but takes some understanding and a real willingness not to mention a little skill to pull off.

Consistent hits on every piece when keeping the beat, slippery smooth transitions, playing like you know exactly what's coming up and are having a gas getting there.... of course all in it's own due time. Prolonging the pleasure as long as possible. Just making a major setup for the money shot lolo, give em what they are begging for, then starting over again. Something along those lines. These are things you get from blues that you can use anywhere.
 
If you can shuffle well enough that people jump onto the dance floor without ever hearing the tune, then you've got it! My favorite shuffles are the 'killer shuffle' and the 'stumble shuffle'.. or morphing the shuffle into a 6/8 shuffle. The possibilities are endless really. The 2 handed snare shuffle is a great device that can add dynamics.

Triplet fills are a natural if needed..
- often the kick on the 1&3 is all you need as the snare hand kind of uses it as as follow thru. although sometimes mixing it up with 4 on the floor in sections or even shuffling the kick to really drive it home... Or other times I feather the bass drum. Use your own judgement based on what the tune calls for.. what kind of Blues are you playing? I'm a fan of Robin Ford, among others..

I'm also trying to decide if I need a change of scenery from my current blues band..in fact I'm trying to decide in the new year to go either modern blues or country-rock.
 
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It would be interesting to know why you placed an add for musicians, had an audition with a band, and then say you don't have time for two bands? Not trying to be difficult, just a genuine question. These guys might now think they have a drummer. Would a couple of open mic nights not have been a better way to broaden horizons?
 
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